So brewing a kettle sour, boiled for 90mins on Tuesday chilled to 45, pitched 8 biokult tablets purged and wrapped up. I've kept it at 45 since then and tried it today 48hrs later. Looks normal, nothing on top of the wort, theres a bit of funk to the taste but noting too out of ordinary, the sweet wort is still prominent.
Should I leave it longer? Maybe pitch more tablets?
What's your pH?
A pH meter would help. does it taste sour at all? It should be sort of sour and sweet and you shouldn't see any signs of fermentation. And hopefully there are no dodgy smells like vomit or worse.
Personally I would let it fall to pitching temp and pitch a nice big starter of yeast allowing the lacto to keep working.
No harm pitching a few more tablets now while the temp is still elevated
No idea on pH, don't have a way of measuring it yet.
Plan is to bring it to pasturising temps before chilling and pitching yeast.
Might throw in another two tablets, leave it another 2hr then continue with plan.
Quote from: vinyljunkie on June 15, 2017, 01:04:19 PM
Might throw in another two tablets, leave it another 2hr then continue with plan.
No point in chucking in 2 tablets and killing them 2 hours later
Sorry typo meant 24hr 8)
So this has finished fermenting out - not tasting sour at all. My process was boil as usual, chill to 45, pitch 8 Biokult Advanced tablets directly into wort keep at 45 for 3 days (I threw in another 2 for last 24hrs) heat up to pasturize then chill to pitching temps.
Wondering what I can do to improve my process? I've since bought pH strips and tested the wort pre yeast, looks like it might have been over 4.
Not sure if I should drain pour this and try again or continue with plan an chuck in raspberries.
How did you maintain the temp at 45?
I've done 2 kettle sours now, both pitching 10 BioKult tabs directly. First one I direct heated to keep the temp at around 35-38. It didn't get as sour as I wanted and didn't taste great. Second one I cooled down to 35 as usual, pitched my tabs and let the temp fall naturally to 25 (I had the kettle insualted). This one soured right down to 3.3 and tastes great now.
My theory is that direct firing killed off a lot of the lacto and inhibited souring. In future I won't be heating it like this, I'm just going to let the temp fall.
I have a grainfather so set it to 45 and left it for 3 days - if I'm being honest I taste very little difference.
So you chilled to 35 and let it drop to 25, over what time period?
You taste very little difference between what?
I think the same might be happening to you with the GF heater. The localised heat around the element will be hot enough to kill the lacto. Took just under 48 hours to drop 35 to 25 degrees. I didn't pre sour the wort either, so the pH drop in the same time was 5.3 to 3.3. Attached a picture timeline. Pitched the lacto at 8pm 17/05
Next time use those bio kults to make a 1 litre lacto starter for a few days beforehand and keep it at 40C for a quicker souring. I found it quicker to use a couple of teaspoons of Glenisk Greek original yogurt than the bio kults. I've maintained my heat in the winter by firing up the kettle very briefly to keep the temps up too and never killed off the lacto.
Thanks for the replies, really appriciate it - I'm going to drain pour this batch and start again over the weekend.
Quote from: BrewDorg on June 20, 2017, 01:12:21 PM
You taste very little difference between what?
Sorry wasn't very descript with this post as was in a rush - I taste barely any difference between my post fermentation sample as with any other beer I've made. I was hoping the pH strips were wrong.
Quote from: garciaBernal on June 20, 2017, 01:37:45 PM
Next time use those bio kults to make a 1 litre lacto starter for a few days beforehand and keep it at 40C for a quicker souring. I found it quicker to use a couple of teaspoons of Glenisk Greek original yogurt than the bio kults. I've maintained my heat in the winter by firing up the kettle very briefly to keep the temps up too and never killed off the lacto.
Yea will do a starter next time, any chance you could send on how you made your lacto starter? Never made a starter before.
100g of DME in 1 litre of water boiled for fifteen minutes then cool to 40C and pop in your two spoons of Glenisk or ten bio kults and leave for three days before you brew. Buy yourself a pH pen it's worth it no matter what style of beer you're brewing but especially for sours.
Quote from: BrewDorg on June 20, 2017, 01:12:21 PM
You taste very little difference between what?
I think the same might be happening to you with the GF heater. The localised heat around the element will be hot enough to kill the lacto. Took just under 48 hours to drop 35 to 25 degrees. I didn't pre sour the wort either, so the pH drop in the same time was 5.3 to 3.3. Attached a picture timeline. Pitched the lacto at 8pm 17/05
So I pitched the 3.5pH lacto starter to the wort @40c and let it naturally drop in temp (it's now 28c 18hrs later). Checked the pH there (got a cheap pH pen) and it's only down to 4.9.
Should I heat the grainfather back to 38c? 38c seemed to work very well for the starter.
This is getting annoying now :) I came home from work and found this.
(https://s8.postimg.org/oivc1rgmt/IMG-20170627-_WA0032.jpg)
I've tried the wort tastes normal but the pH is still 5.0 hasn't moved since I pitched the 1L lacto starter that was at about 3.5-3.8
I'm now heating it back to 38 and will try hold it at that for 24hrs.
Any ideas?
Looks like a yeast has taken hold.
Balls so it's a drainpour? Would love to know what I'm doing wrong this is the second batch that didn't sour.
I did a sour, the first time nothing happened like you, the second I made a starter and once it had dropped, added it to the wort for 24 hours, pitching at 35C and just letting it fall. 24 hours later all the wort had soured.
It sounds like you have done similar. Def having the starter soured and working before going into the kettle is key to making sure it gets going.
Quote from: vinyljunkie on June 28, 2017, 10:11:59 AM
Balls so it's a drainpour?
Not at all. One of my kettle sours did the same but it turned out good. Dropping the ph with phosphoric or lactic acid before you pitch the lacto starter will help retard the growth of anything you dont want in there as well.
Run with it.
Quote from: nigel_c on June 28, 2017, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: vinyljunkie on June 28, 2017, 10:11:59 AM
Balls so it's a drainpour?
Not at all. One of my kettle sours did the same but it turned out good. Dropping the ph with phosphoric or lactic acid before you pitch the lacto starter will help retard the growth of anything you dont want in there as well.
Run with it.
Cheers will leave it until tomorrow and try again
No drop in pH at all now since brewing this on Sunday.
Anything I can do or just drainpour and back to the drawing board? Decided to throw in the greek yogurt and see what happens, use it as an experiment now.