Title: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: arrbee on September 13, 2018, 10:19:03 AM
Post by: arrbee on September 13, 2018, 10:19:03 AM
bare with me here, I've a question at the end of the rather long preamble.. :P
I'm a relatively new brewer by many standards. I started about 3yrs ago and have been fairly constant in that time, brewing and drinking more than I probably should :)
I've done 2 dud brews and the rest have been ranging from O for orsum to "an acquired taste" that I acquired more easily than others ;)
I've not yet put much effort into "perfecting" things as I'm happy with the results I get and trying new ideas is more about changing things up rather than correcting issues.
Having said that, I reckon in the near future I will start to move towards identifying and correcting off flavours.
I fully expect that there are some in most of my brews, if not all, but either ignorance is bliss or I just feel that my beer tastes better than a lot of the commercial craft beers as they are.
Which leads to my questions....
If you were to apply judging standards to commercial craft beers:
Have you tasted off flavours in commercial beers that are introduced during brewing? (not due to age on the shelf, etc)
Would it be widespread or rare?
Does it put you off the beer or is it generally acceptable to you personally?
I'm a relatively new brewer by many standards. I started about 3yrs ago and have been fairly constant in that time, brewing and drinking more than I probably should :)
I've done 2 dud brews and the rest have been ranging from O for orsum to "an acquired taste" that I acquired more easily than others ;)
I've not yet put much effort into "perfecting" things as I'm happy with the results I get and trying new ideas is more about changing things up rather than correcting issues.
Having said that, I reckon in the near future I will start to move towards identifying and correcting off flavours.
I fully expect that there are some in most of my brews, if not all, but either ignorance is bliss or I just feel that my beer tastes better than a lot of the commercial craft beers as they are.
Which leads to my questions....
If you were to apply judging standards to commercial craft beers:
Have you tasted off flavours in commercial beers that are introduced during brewing? (not due to age on the shelf, etc)
Would it be widespread or rare?
Does it put you off the beer or is it generally acceptable to you personally?
Title: Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: johnrm on September 13, 2018, 11:46:21 AM
Post by: johnrm on September 13, 2018, 11:46:21 AM
Commercial beers are subject to flaws as with Homebrew beers.
The Macros run a tight ship and consistency tends to be to the fore.
In the independent brewing world, deviations are to be expected, but bad beer _should_ not.
Some brewers let down the side by allowing sub-standard beers out.
It is definitely worth meeting with other brewers to try and pinpoint any flaws that you are experiencing.
Try improving your beers - Perfection will hopefully happen in time.
Most friends will say it's great even if its shite - you need constructive and informed criticism so that you can improve.
The Macros run a tight ship and consistency tends to be to the fore.
In the independent brewing world, deviations are to be expected, but bad beer _should_ not.
Some brewers let down the side by allowing sub-standard beers out.
It is definitely worth meeting with other brewers to try and pinpoint any flaws that you are experiencing.
Try improving your beers - Perfection will hopefully happen in time.
Most friends will say it's great even if its shite - you need constructive and informed criticism so that you can improve.
Title: Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: nigel_c on September 13, 2018, 11:54:01 AM
Post by: nigel_c on September 13, 2018, 11:54:01 AM
If your part of a local club it can be worth getting an off flavour kit between you all. It can be a great learning tool and can help put an actual flavour on some of the fancy off flavours you read about.
In the craft beer side I've cut back on the beers I buy because I'm just not impressed with what's being produced these days. I think a lot of them are trying to get the beers out the door too quick and not giving them the conditioning time they need.
In the craft beer side I've cut back on the beers I buy because I'm just not impressed with what's being produced these days. I think a lot of them are trying to get the beers out the door too quick and not giving them the conditioning time they need.
Title: Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: CH on September 13, 2018, 03:47:52 PM
Post by: CH on September 13, 2018, 03:47:52 PM
"Would it be widespread"
Yes because there are brewers out there that have not come through the homebrew ranks and know nothing about off flavours or some of them even sanitation :(
There are a loads of stinkers out there at the moment that were fermented too hot or been exposed to hot storage and are "taking off" in cans and bottles.
There are between 10-15 Irish producers that I would buy at the moment who have consistent product and none of their products across their entire range are flawed, with over 100 producers including contract thats a poor state of affairs :(
Joe punter trys a craft beer and it tastes bad (you don't need BJCP to know what baby vomit smells and tastes like) versus Heino and he will never come back and thats the problem :(
Not unique to here either by the way, rife in the US also.
Some do drift out of making crap and I will always keep buying Irish Craft but there are some and even after 2 years and me sampling bottles or draught still the same.
Very easy for us beer wankers to sit here and pontificate 8), we can throw 25L down the drain easy enough, commercial reality at 1-2KL.
As others have said share beer, get off flavour kit and start knowing what to look for. Don't drink shite commecial product apart from tasting shite it could make you ill.
Heres the issues I've come across is the last 2-3 months ranked, be curious as to how others have fared.
Oxidised
Hot Alcohol
Stale Musty
TCP Medicinal
Butyric
Yes because there are brewers out there that have not come through the homebrew ranks and know nothing about off flavours or some of them even sanitation :(
There are a loads of stinkers out there at the moment that were fermented too hot or been exposed to hot storage and are "taking off" in cans and bottles.
There are between 10-15 Irish producers that I would buy at the moment who have consistent product and none of their products across their entire range are flawed, with over 100 producers including contract thats a poor state of affairs :(
Joe punter trys a craft beer and it tastes bad (you don't need BJCP to know what baby vomit smells and tastes like) versus Heino and he will never come back and thats the problem :(
Not unique to here either by the way, rife in the US also.
Some do drift out of making crap and I will always keep buying Irish Craft but there are some and even after 2 years and me sampling bottles or draught still the same.
Very easy for us beer wankers to sit here and pontificate 8), we can throw 25L down the drain easy enough, commercial reality at 1-2KL.
As others have said share beer, get off flavour kit and start knowing what to look for. Don't drink shite commecial product apart from tasting shite it could make you ill.
Heres the issues I've come across is the last 2-3 months ranked, be curious as to how others have fared.
Oxidised
Hot Alcohol
Stale Musty
TCP Medicinal
Butyric
Title: Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: Qs on September 13, 2018, 07:09:44 PM
Post by: Qs on September 13, 2018, 07:09:44 PM
Butryic in Ireland, jaysus. I've tasted it twice. Once from an off flavour tasting and once from a Brewdog berliner. Its by far the worst off flavour.
Title: Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: irish_goat on September 13, 2018, 08:15:48 PM
Post by: irish_goat on September 13, 2018, 08:15:48 PM
I poured a lager from up north down the sink tonight. Had a smoky, phenolic taste and was downright stinkin'.
Title: Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: CH on September 13, 2018, 08:32:54 PM
Post by: CH on September 13, 2018, 08:32:54 PM
Lads in the interests of fairness and liability should we name names?
I spose a statement of fact is ok Thomas
.
Persevere with a brewery, some of you young fellas wouldn't remember but RR used to be absolute shite!
I spose a statement of fact is ok Thomas
.Persevere with a brewery, some of you young fellas wouldn't remember but RR used to be absolute shite!
Title: Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: irish_goat on September 13, 2018, 08:42:02 PM
Post by: irish_goat on September 13, 2018, 08:42:02 PM
Aye fair point, will take the name out. :P
Title: Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: Qs on September 14, 2018, 12:07:47 AM
Post by: Qs on September 14, 2018, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: CH on September 13, 2018, 08:32:54 PM
Lads in the interests of fairness and liability should we name names?
Fair enough with Irish breweries. Brewdog can go and shite.
Title: Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: nigel_c on September 14, 2018, 09:58:46 AM
Post by: nigel_c on September 14, 2018, 09:58:46 AM
I've given up on brewdog beers. Waste of money.
Title: Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: arrbee on September 14, 2018, 10:35:47 AM
Post by: arrbee on September 14, 2018, 10:35:47 AM
I'm no tasting expert, but I have found the Boyne IPA and PA to be very nice.
Title: Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
Post by: Andrew on September 17, 2018, 02:37:38 PM
Post by: Andrew on September 17, 2018, 02:37:38 PM
Quote from: Qs on September 13, 2018, 07:09:44 PMCould be worse- I once had indole off an Irish craft beer- the only time I've ever tasted it in the wild.
Butryic in Ireland, jaysus. I've tasted it twice. Once from an off flavour tasting and once from a Brewdog berliner. Its by far the worst off flavour.