Just made the long awaited kegerator today.
I bought the insulating panels 2 months ago and they were sitting in the shed. I got my as into gear today and hey presto, some cosmetic finishing left to do but it is built using an old cheap fridge two 8x 4 insulating panels and several tubes of builders caulk.
Size: roughly 2 foot x 4 foot
Cost 80 euros + an old cheap fridge
Extras needed: a socket to plug it in to
Benefits ( for me anyway with my volume of brewing):
Takes 6 corny kegs.
3 compartments 1, under the ice box for lagering thermostat keeps at 2celcius two kegs capacity.
compartment 2 for serving storing lager 8celcius
compartment 3 for serving ales kept at about 10-12 celcius.
Efficiency: room temp to frozen in 5 minutes,
Capacity about -20
Havnt tested room tem kegs yet to see how long to chill but the blast chill compartment goes really quickly to -10c so I suspect itll b efficient.
How it works and how it was built.
8x 4 insulating boards 4 inch thick and 2 inch thick and made what is actually a box with an open top. The pic of the lid does not really show that I made a lid with a smaller section which slots into the top opening and then over as well ( double insulation on top and a door draft strip as well)
Old fridge carcass had to be removed from the working parts witout breaking the workings.
As you see in the pics the workings are all still as they were in the old fridge (the fridge is completly gone) the pic shows the fridge workings installed in the insulated box.
I made dividers which can seperate the kegerator in three as mentioned above to get three temps in one fridge.
Ok I panel off the section with the quick remove panel and it holds most of the cold in the icebox end of the kegerator for lagering, this is set by thermostat to 2celcius and will stay at that unless set otherwise. A v is removed from the panel to allow some cold to flow to the next compartment and again to the third. trail and error determined the size.
If only using two kegs I will use the first compartment only so the rest of the kegerator is not sused but willl be quite cool, great to store a few dozen bottles!
I will demonstrate it in detail at the next kildare brewday.
In summary this is a million times better that a fridge, extremly powerful and extremly good insulation cost of ESB is expected to be minimal
main benefit is perfect cold storage and versatility and threee temps in one kegerator.
Another option which I use in my old kegerator is to use PC fans and thermostat to acheive perfect cold temp control to con
any queries send them on and remember its not quite finished yet only build it today.
sorry cant upload pics it says can only upload 500kb..... and max 20 pics...and total 500kb.....we need to upgrade that situation!
ah too much hassel...I can upload a basigaabyte to my server!
Ill stickem on my web in one lump if anyone is interested personaltraining.ie/keg
Quote from: Tube on April 26, 2013, 09:45:19 PM
If photos are more than 500kb apiece they'll be too big to fit on screen anyway, so you'll need to reduce their size. I use this as you can just right click on an image and pick your resolution.
http://imageresizer.codeplex.com/
1024 x 768 is plenty for online viewing.
500kb per post... just do multiple posts! ;)
Theyre only 350ish and it wont upload, tried twice, but if it is really 500kb max wel den wont upload anyway. Catch yis tomora at 2pm..
Had a look at the pics on your site, still looks like an in-progress project. Is it all working for you now?
Ye ive been planning it a while back with a focus on making a kegerator with incredible insulation properties. My old kegerator was effective but driving all day last summer trying to keep up.
Technically it will be exceptionally and the three varying temp compartments will be its USP.
Havnt got the thermostats finished yet then theres the edges to cover and so on. Its designed to go in the shed but my next one is going to be one disguised into my bar with T&G cladding aand so on.
People say why dont i buy just buy and old chest freezer because effectively that what it looks like, well its because a freezer has an inch of insulation and my Kegerator has 4 inches. The other is that I can use the full floor space which takes 6 cornies 2 notmal corneys and 4 of the taller 23 ltr ones and also the compartment dividers. As well as being to serve ale and lager at different temps while lagering two kegs of say a lager and an altbier (or any other beer u wanna leave on ice)
Plan is to have it completed on next Kildare brewday
I really like your sectioning idea! How can you get different temps in each compartment using just one hacked fridge?
4" insulation! The best kind of overkill!
Hi bren,
Email me one of the pics and I'll see what the problem is.
I'll PM my email address.
John
Quote from: Padraic on April 28, 2013, 09:11:00 PM
I really like your sectioning idea! How can you get different temps in each compartment using just one hacked fridge?
4" insulation! The best kind of overkill!
cos the coldest part is at the evaporator (cold mechanism) or is that bit called the condensor?
Where the original fridge icebox is is thermostatically set to stay between 2 to 6c (avg 3) this is ideal for lagering, the scetioning allows a small amount of cold in through a v cut in the divider panel so the second section does not get as cold and if necessary I have a third section which can be even warmer.
Testing at present, with just the lagering end at 2c and a four keg compartment staying between 8-10c simply by using the insulated divider panel. Thermostat is fully adjustable I can leave the whole kegerator at whatever temp I want but as Ive built it for holding 6 kegs it allows lagering say a lager and an altbier, serving lager in the second section and serving ale in the last section.
Hopefully that all makes sense
my eyes wont read this as its all in imperial.
pity :P
I thought all ye Tallaghfornians were Miles and Feet! :P
Quote from: JimmyM on April 29, 2013, 06:28:57 PM
my eyes wont read this as its all in imperial.
pity :P
you expecting the tempertures in Kelvin too?
:P
Seriously though,
So you have one source of cold in the first compartment.
You cut holes in the partitions to the next 2 compartments, and the size of the holes determines how cold they get?
What happens when you have (relatively) warm or cold kegs in there - will the size of the hole still get you to the temp you want? (I suppose it will - eventually)
You must have the need to lager all the time then do ya?
Cos its not very efficient unless you are. i.e. if you just want to serve ales (the furthest compartment from your fridge) the fridge needs to work to keep the first (coldest) compartment at the correct temp so that cold can sufficiently leak out to the ales compartment.
I suppose in that case you might put your ales in the "lager" compartment and up the temp on the controller. But plumbing problems might not allow that in your system.
OR might a better model not be to have the freezer in the middle compartment and have a bigger or smaller hole to either side. That last one is me just thinking out loud - not sure if it is better or worse.
How about doing it vertically?
Coldest at the top. Less Cold Middle. Least Cold bottom.
Once target temp is reached in your top chamber, a solenoid opens a 'gate' to let cold air cascade down to your middle chamber.
Once target Temp is reached in the middle chamber, a solenoid opens a 'gate' to let cold air cascade down to your bottom chamber.
Once target temp is reached at all levels, Gates close, COmpressor shuts off.
Horizontally...
Coldest at the Left, Less Cold Middle. Least Cold Right
Use 12v fans in your chamber walls.
Once target temp is reached in your Left chamber, a fan at the base of the partition blows cold air into the middle chamber.
Once target Temp is reached in the middle chamber, a fan at the base of the partition blows cold air into the Right chamber.
Once target temp is reached in all chambers, fans off, Compressor shuts off.
(Might need solenoid controller sluice to isolate chambers, similar to )
Horizontal alternative...
Fan pushes cold, less dense air from base of current chamber UP a pipe so cold air enters the next chamber high up and sinks.
No need for Solenoid controlled sluice.
The Vee bit doesn't float my boat.
Another Horizontal Alternative...
Sluice only (No fan) between chambers.
/Madscientist over
Jazus lads, do ye think I have all day to comment on those essays.
Come and see it working.
In summary, The kegerator is made for 6 kegs as many people know I brew a lot and yes I have a need to lager all the time, it is unlikely the first compartment will be ever empty. I lager lagers and Altbiers specifically, I always ahve an altbier coming up. I currently have 13 beers/ batches on tap (8 full kegs and 5 in secondary)
the first compartment can be whatever temp I want down to keep it at. The v opening works perfect, running for 12 hours yesterday First compartment 3-6c the rest stayed at between 8-10c (air temp variation is due to compressor kicking in every hour or so) The kegs hold a constant average temp. The unit is so well insulated there will be no difference in performance in summer. The refrigeration unit is more than powerful enough to rapidly bring temp to the double figure minuses ( remember its a fridge not freezer unit)
This system is extremely simple, no gismos needed and no fans ( I have used fans and thermostats on my last Kegerator) by trial and error I discovered what size hole needs to transfer from one compartment to the other.
The whole kegerator can be kept at any temp I like and if only two or four kegs I have a full divider to seal unwanted space and save energy while increasing performance. Remember as well as lagering at low temps a quick chiller compartment is very useful for rapidly cooling say at a party when I run out of beer and have to slap in another couple kegs as the others run out. In addition guests bring their own drinks e.g. wine and no alcohol beer and the eegits that drink coors, if necessary they can be blasted in the coldest section whilI still have 4 kegs at serving temperature.
Hope this answers some of yor comments!
Just in case ye didnt spot it earlier the dividers are removable..if I need the ales colder I can whip out a divider in 2 seconds. If I add another warm keg I can either blast it in the icy section or leave the divider out to the temp equalises
I was going all rocket ship there wasn't I?
The movable baffle I understand, but just don't get how the temps are controlled.
Ill try explain again in a different way. I mentioned originally I didnt finalise thermostats yet, right now its the origianl fridge thermostat controlling the main compartment.
The unit has one thermostat set at anywhere between 10 and -10 depending what I want to do
If set at -10 the beer will chill very quickly compared to if it was running at lets say 8c. Thats the first principle keeping in mind if i forget about it the beer will freeze, so I wont I will only use it for super chilling. (bigger temp difference greater the heat or cold transfer as I understand it.
If I set the thermostat at say 2- 5c for lagering I use the coldest part of the refrigerator. I could just as easily put in 4 kegs and 4 slabs of coors if I want.
So if i want to blast chill I can set the temp to what I want and leave the dividers out ot keep product at coldest end.
If I want lager lagering and ale drinking I insert insulated dividers which significantly restrict the air flow (cold flow) and allow a small amount of cold through to the next compartment to keep cold rather than blast chilling
Ok the theory is (in practice it works) a small amount of cold flows / diffuses from the cold segment to the warmer segment at a rate that will maintain the temp I want. While it may seem like the whole thing will equalise temp ( and it might after aweek) eventually it wont because once the panel is in place only a small amount of cold can travel net door while there is some cold loss through the wallk.
Ive tried and tested this simple system on my last kegerator which used computer fans and dividors. The difference is a much bigger kegerator, much smaller fridge unit, extremely well insulated machine and dividers to seperate the sections relating to their proximity to the coldest part of the unit. There is also a full panel to save energy if only using 1 or two kegs I simply insert a full divider and reduce size of the active kegerator.
In summary. If you stand beside the fire you will be very warm..... move further or put a divider between u and the fire and you will be cooler. Thats what Im working off.
Option for the ones who want a complicated (but more automatic) kegerator is to install fans , sluices and other gismos which will give a lot of fine control over temp in each compartment. I may at some stage use 3 thermostats and an external pipe that blows into each compartment its not a major undertaking but not necessary for now
Quote from: johnrm link=topic=2 ::)275.msg27513#msg27513 date=1367259611
...Fan pushes cold, less dense air from base of current chamber UP ...
Just like to point out that cold air is more dense than hotter air. I would like to enter this hot air balloon as exhibit A, M'Lud. :-[
/J
back to basic lads, for the majority of homebrewers on this forum.....keep it simple so that everyone benefits on such a simple topic as a cold box for our beer.
It works and works very well for a simple setup with no complicated gadgets required to run it just like my homeade fully adjustable pressure relief valve for a fiver (not 40-50 euros). Worst scenario if I forget to keep an eye on the kegerator is that the ale in the 2nd or third compartment may move a bit closer to the first compartment's temp over time..........result ....even fresher beer ..... no harmful consequences can result.
Its simple, versatile, effective, economical and very efficient at cooling / chilling / blast chilling beer if necessary.
Sometimes we can risk over-complicating things for no reason. Keep it simple and effective, that includes the beer we make as well!
saw the pics, I'm impressed, but would the V be better off at the bottom or are you workjing on a sluice type system for transfer of the cold air?
I guess a a few temp probes at various locations will help you build up a temp profile.
as to how it performs.
I did a similar job with a fridge and thermoking to make a fermentation fridge, but I found that the motor on the fridge burned out faster than it might have as I had bypassed the internal thermostat on the fridge as it was extremely in accurate and I ran it directly off of an ATC-800+.
I like the simplicity, as said I had something very similar myself.
Hi John, and thanks john. The V is at the bottom if necessary. or top as required (versatile) Cold drops hot rises so if the v is at bottom more cold will drop and then pass by the V slot into next segment ( I used a V because it was yet again simple to cut out vs a square or circle).
If V is up there is less cold transferring to next segment.
The pics show the rough job not polished finished product yet. Will be finished by next kildare brewday Ill be proud to show it in detail then. I started with simple idea and aim to keep it simple. I even made a plywood base with castors for ease of movement.
Ive already tried and tested by trial and error temp over a 12-24 hour period stays remarkably correct 2-6 c in freezer part controlled by original fridge thermostat and the rest stays 8-10 c remarkably consistent over the whole day. If necessary or by personal desire a simple 2 inch duct can recycle air from freezer bit to cool compartment with a simple single computer case fan and a fridge thermostat. Total cost is less than 100 euros, 120 with a PC fan and fridge thermostat.
We (kellie and I) are converting our main room to a bar and brewing area with wet floor/ tiled area for brewing tasks, that will be ready for next Kildare brew day as well
Quote from: Eoin on April 30, 2013, 10:10:33 AM
I did a similar job with a fridge and thermoking to make a fermentation fridge, but I found that the motor on the fridge burned out faster than it might have as I had bypassed the internal thermostat on the fridge as it was extremely in accurate and I ran it directly off of an ATC-800+.
I like the simplicity, as said I had something very similar myself.
Reason for a mainly 4 inch insulated wall, saves energy, preserves the motor, and keeps temp way more stable.
Anyone building a kegerator consider 4 inch walls, virtually nothing gets through, its down to how often you open it, in my case very little as I serve my beer from outside (piped vis wall) and gas line via regulator permanantly piped thru too.