National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Equipment & Chemicals => Topic started by: Rossa on May 04, 2013, 03:42:16 PM

Title: A spot of pumping
Post by: Rossa on May 04, 2013, 03:42:16 PM
I have gone through two solar pumps. They got clogged with hops and burned out. My fault. I didn't keep an eye on them.  I generally use pellets and prefer them over whole for ease of use. I like to pump the wort around the boiler to help chill quicker so want a bigger pump that can handle the hop particles. Has anyone any experience with a brewing pump? I'm not sure if this would do it http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/public/detailv1.asp?itemcode=STA20139937

Then there is the http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/march-809hs-pl-pump-6-foot-power-cord-and-plug.html but from the states the shipping would kill me.
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Shane Phelan on May 04, 2013, 04:25:25 PM
I used paint strainer bags for the first time with pellets today, they were amazing for removing all the particles.
This is a picture of what was left after I took out the bag and drained the boiler.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img211/3802/img1077k.jpg)

I would be surprised if your solar pump clogged with that amount of material remaining in the boiler.
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Rossa on May 04, 2013, 06:16:00 PM
Interesting lads. Where would I get either?
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Shane Phelan on May 04, 2013, 06:45:43 PM
These (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-GALLON-PAINT-STRAINER-BAGS-6-PACK-OPEN-TOP-/370636782236?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Paint_Varnish_MJ&hash=item564bac7a9c) are the exact ones I got. I use them for making mini 3L BIAB all grain starters too.
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: imark on May 30, 2013, 04:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rossa on May 04, 2013, 06:16:00 PM
Interesting lads. Where would I get either?
Did you manage to find one? I used my solar pump for the same thing last weekend for the first time. It seized and is capput!
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Rossa on May 30, 2013, 09:29:17 PM
Quote from: imark on May 30, 2013, 04:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rossa on May 04, 2013, 06:16:00 PM
Interesting lads. Where would I get either?
Did you manage to find one? I used my solar pump for the same thing last weekend for the first time. It seized and is capput!

. I got a chugger pump.
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: JD on May 31, 2013, 10:10:24 AM
Quote from: Il Tubo on May 04, 2013, 05:46:31 PM
Central heating pumps are magnetic drive impellers, so they can't burn out, are easily cleaned out, are cheap, can handle heat, and are readily available. Made from brass bodies. So why not use them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECLQr3Z1pFk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECLQr3Z1pFk)

He disassembles the pump to reveal the impeller at 3m50s into the video. I'm not sure about the viability of that type of pump for brewing. It sure looks like there is a non-magnetic bearing at the end of that shaft.
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Hop Bomb on May 31, 2013, 10:58:21 AM
Quote from: Il Tubo on May 30, 2013, 06:01:19 PM
Was over in Dempsey's today. He has a solar projects pump, as have I, although I have never used mine.

I did open it up though, and it has a direct drive impeller, i.e. the impeller is on the motor shaft as opposed to having a magnetic coupling.

This makes me highly dubious of them being food grade as the liquid can come in contact with the motor bearings which are greased.

Additionally, if something jams and the impeller can't turn, then the motor will overheat and burn out. Having seen Dempsey's in operation I wouldn't be so sure it'll last!

Ive used mine for 10 brews now & no issues or off flavours. My oldest beer thats still in stock was brewed in Jan...  I use it for pumping strike & sparge water & recircing the boiling wort through the hop back & plate chiller. You do need a hop screen on your boiler though as it will clog otherwise.  They're cheap & work well. If you dont want to drop a wedge of cash but still want to try a pump in your system Id recommend the solar pump. 
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: JD on May 31, 2013, 02:37:12 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on May 04, 2013, 05:46:31 PM
Central heating pumps are magnetic drive impellers, so they can't burn out, are easily cleaned out, are cheap, can handle heat, and are readily available. Made from brass bodies. So why not use them?

Did a bit more checking into this. While central heating pumps are generally magnetically coupled, in my opinion they remain, in the general case, unsuitable for brewing use. The following are things to watch out for:
So, if your central heating circulating pump fails any of the above, you might want to reconsider using it for pumping boiling wort. The Solar pumps are small and not that robust but they're cheaper. The manufacturer claims they're food safe for brewing. The March pumps are dearer but that are more robust than the Solars and designed for the job. I heard of people using Totton pumps but from what I can see on their web site, they're rated only to 85oC so I suspect they will end up not being that robust in the longer run.

/J
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Dr Jacoby on March 24, 2014, 07:19:30 PM
Quote from: Rossa on May 30, 2013, 09:29:17 PM
Quote from: imark on May 30, 2013, 04:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rossa on May 04, 2013, 06:16:00 PM
Interesting lads. Where would I get either?
Did you manage to find one? I used my solar pump for the same thing last weekend for the first time. It seized and is capput!

. I got a chugger pump.

Hey Rossa. Where did you source your chugger pump again?
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: DEMPSEY on April 16, 2014, 09:19:18 PM
I have a few solar pumps that if I don't wrench the head off them work ok,however what I do find is they are not very good at pushing liquid which has a bit of resistance in it. I use a counterflow and push the hot wort through the bottom and put the top and return it to the boil kettle. Takes a bit of messing to get it to flow.
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: brenmurph on April 16, 2014, 09:36:04 PM
There are 2 distinct types of chinese solar pumps. one is the normal one most people have with a direct impellar in a housing and generally described as submeersible.

The other I have is different it has a motor couplesd to a seperate pump and the pump is a piston type thing using blades as a pumping method, hard to describe but anyone here for a visit can see it in action.

it does not clog like the impellar pump
its the same size as the impellar pump
it is far more powerful than the impellar
it has 100's of hours use in my circulation mash system and still seems perfect

Was sold a food grade and capable of 100c+, so far so good. it is also the pump used for pumping cooled wort to my conical chamber.
it seems the solar pumps are fine with water or glycol but bits of hops and thick sticky cooled wort feck them up
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: montofk on April 17, 2014, 09:38:45 AM
Sounds good Bren... was that from ebay or somewhere online?..... would you have a link?
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: brenmurph on April 17, 2014, 09:57:58 AM
loads on this page http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xfood+grade+pump&_nkw=food+grade+pump&_sacat=0&_from=R40

and heres an example
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Mini-Plastic-Gear-Pump-Self-Sucking-Water-Pump-0-100-Food-Grade-ZC-A210-/201025040428?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item2ece06b02c

The difference is they have not got an impellar its a ceramic blade system and a gearbox hence the strength, this pump does not stick with trub / hops and burn out, I found it fantastic

heres another one which is a diaphram pump
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-80PSI-100PSI-Water-Diaphragm-Self-Priming-Pump-For-Marine-RV-Boats-Caravan/251491788991?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222003%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D21398%26meid%3D6264123206389772723%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D9407%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D201025040428&rt=nc
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: montofk on April 17, 2014, 10:58:05 AM
Cheers Bren!... I'm about to (any day now) get a pump. Good timing.

Self sucking = self priming I take it? that'd be another plus.
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Will_D on April 17, 2014, 11:32:22 AM
The spec rates the outpput of this at 1.8 litres/min at no head.

Is it really that low?

OK for re-circulating but a bit slow to transfer 50 litres?
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: brenmurph on April 17, 2014, 11:34:17 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Mini-Plastic-Gear-Pump-Self-Sucking-Water-Pump-0-100-Food-Grade-ZC-A210-/201025040428?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item2ece06b02c

thats the one, its done me very good service for quite a lot of usage so worth a bash at 15 euros.

well with the self-priming u dont have to worry about gravity. If ur pump is on a bench u can suck water up from a bucket on the floor and then onwards to a higher level, as I said I pump up to my conical from bench height. Fills 34 litres in 15 mins or so
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: brenmurph on April 17, 2014, 11:36:19 AM
Wheres the fire will, just have a cup of tea or a beer...or do the post brew clean up while its doing its thing.

i dont think everyone has to have a 200 euro chugger pump for a once a month brew day :)

Ask Dodge how to do a chilled brewday.  hes the expert! slow... slow....medal...medal ;)
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Hop Bomb on April 17, 2014, 01:03:52 PM
Enough of the sly digs at us chugger owners! :P  Worth every penny! (payed 125 GBP for mine btw)

There she is now all tucked away in her kennel. A sight to behold.  O0

(http://i.imgur.com/AaRppJzl.jpg)

* if my solar pump didnt die I wouldnt have bought the chugger. Glad I did though.


Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Will_D on April 17, 2014, 01:35:22 PM
Quote from: brenmurph on April 17, 2014, 11:36:19 AM
Wheres the fire will, just have a cup of tea or a beer...or do the post brew clean up while its doing its thing.
I know I just didn't want someone expecting too much from this pump.

Does look great value though. If only I didn't have 2 solars sitting in a box somewhere. Must really get building but am up to my proverbials in cider and wine making!
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: DEMPSEY on April 17, 2014, 03:03:45 PM
I have 3 solar pumps that are fine but just will not push hard enough and need alot of coaxing. Going to do what I should have done and go for the chugger pump. I will find a project that best suits my solar pumps. A multi bottle washer perhaps with a dozen washing spears to help wash beer bottles maybe ;).
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: montofk on April 17, 2014, 03:34:35 PM
Good to get all the opinions, I had reservations about buying a little solar pump, then having it fail then buying another, then fail, then buy etc.... wouldn't be long getting up to near Chugger pump territory.... 

For 15quid though it's worth a shot on this one Bren is suggesting, I'll be realistic with my expectations of it, and if it survives half as many brews as his I'll be happy.   I did see the Chugger GB starting on another thread, and it did get me tempted for a minute  ::) but I'll be good and stay out of it, as Bren said it's hard to justify that expense for a once a month brew session.
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: DEMPSEY on April 17, 2014, 03:46:07 PM
I thought the same but you have it for life and others have said they all are happy once they made the decision to go for the chuggers. I have not had one person say they are sorry for buying one :).
Title: A spot of pumping
Post by: Ciderhead on April 17, 2014, 08:47:39 PM
If your intention longer term is to herms or recirculate then chugger or march and you can control outflow with valve or smaller out bore.
I use the former and get 7l a minute allowing me herms typical batch every 2 minutes.
I got here having gone through 3 solars which gave me 4l/min but all packed up after circa 10 brews
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Hop Bomb on April 18, 2014, 11:57:08 AM
@ Bren - Its not about patience or lack of it for some of us. Ive personally put a lot of time & money into building my dream brew setup. Its an ongoing project which needs to be finished before I get married. Yes of course people get lots of medals & great results on budget gear but some of us like building & over building things. Basically, building a ferrari when a push bike would get us from A to B with same or similar results. I dont want cheap wheel trims on my ferrari though. I want big shiny alloys!  ;D
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: brenmurph on April 18, 2014, 12:43:17 PM
Im confiused theres two threads on the same thing...anyways folks Im well aware of all the different passions for all things beer and stainless steel.

My point was purely financial. China make most opf the stuff in ur car, your house and your telecomunications and industry. Im not saying dont get a chugger made by slaves in mexico, im saying go direct to the factory in china a factory that makes industrial stuff. and a chugger style pump will be 50 dollars not 170 euros.

For thoose on a budget buy a cheap pump thats up to the job, the 15 dollar impeller pump isnt up to it, other 15-30 dollar pumps certainly are

I think the pumps pack up for numerous reasons.

1 dempsey smashes one into 10 bits :)
2  dempsey connects 240 volt to a 12 volt one :) :) :) ;D ;D
3 they overheat coz arnt up the the job of pumping wort, they are made for water ::)
4 the wrong ones are being chosen. ::)

Good luck with your Chggy buy, personally I have 3 pumps that suit our brewhouse well ;)
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: brenmurph on April 18, 2014, 01:18:27 PM
@ tube
me i didnt mash up any pumps, I did freeze one with my beer  cooler while testing its efficience at  wort chilling.. didnt survive that, but it wasnt rated at -8c :) :)

my other two pumps are banging along nicely :)   so leave me out of this murderous pump issue, Im not a serial killer,  dempsey is ;D
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: DEMPSEY on April 18, 2014, 04:17:04 PM
Anybody who has bought the chugger have atested to it being 100% what they want from it. This is not so with stuff on Alibaba. That is why I want to get something tried and tested by btewers here and in UK :)
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on April 19, 2014, 09:54:20 AM
@brenmurph, Bren do you use this pump to pump from your kettle through a xflow cooler or is it only used to circulate through the Herms coil? My feeling is I might need a Chugger for the hot end work but would get away with your pump for circulating the mash?
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: brenmurph on April 19, 2014, 10:00:48 AM
as mentioned I use the pump for mash circulate and pumping cooled wort to conical

My best guess would be that a plate chiller would need a stronger pump, maybe someong who uses one could comment
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on April 19, 2014, 12:50:38 PM
I reckon it's one of each then, thanks Bren
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: RichC on April 26, 2014, 07:39:02 AM
From time to time I toy with the idea of buying a pump for recirculation. I'm not willing to shell out on a chugger and don't really line what I read about solar projects pumps. Found this on HBT and it seems reasonable and also seems to tick all the boxes http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: brenmurph on April 26, 2014, 10:23:57 AM
The pump  looks capable and food grade however the motor seems to be the standard one that attaches to all pumps, the motor may be its weak link.

Also check the shippoing charge and then be prepared to pay 7 euros to the post offics and 23% on the total amount you pay to the vendon (inc shipping) Will prob work out at 100 euros in the end. Good value? may be if we could believe the lads on the video. Also keep in mind that if faulty you may throw it away due to the cost os shipping it back to usa.

Keep eye on Dempseys post on the potsntial Group buy. depends how much they end up dealing for including shipping and taxes, but it will be a bit more than 100

Also any comments on if this pupm will do recirculate / whirlpool tasks at 12 litres a minute, keeping in mind that wort is thicker a lot thicker than water so performance in the video should have been rated and tested using wort at say 1050sg to be fair.
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Garry on April 26, 2014, 12:02:11 PM
@RichC, that looks like the pump on homebrewbuilder.co.uk (http://www.homebrewbuilder.co.uk/pumps.html).
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: brenmurph on April 26, 2014, 12:44:24 PM
well spotted garry,
the homebrew club should buy things like this and test it out and review it, that way we have informed brewers and eliminates guesswork, if it does what most homebrewers need than at 60 euros its great value :)

From UK its way cheaper than the link to the usa site. No taxes and im sure shipping can be arranged for a quid or two to parcel motel
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: brenmurph on April 26, 2014, 12:47:29 PM
why havnt we seen these before?
here it is straight from the chinese, is this the same one?
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/12V-Solar-submersible-pump-100C-High-temperature-Lift-3M-Flow-860LPH-Long-life-Low-noise-Absolutely/1375775115.html

15 euros inc shipping, no taxes

Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: Will_D on April 26, 2014, 06:45:14 PM
I for one would be happier if the took Paypal!

However back to specs:

The US one said that they had a coated impeller and was fitted with 1/2" NPT S/S fittings and was FG

The Chinese one as Bren linked to seems to use 1/2", maybe BSP fittings. (Chinese do make/use BSP fittings for their own domestic market)

Temp spec is a bit "vague" is it OK at 103C? (typical 1060 wort BP)
Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: RichC on April 26, 2014, 09:08:38 PM
Wasn't the US one magnetically coupled? That's what I felt makes it good value. Its lack of magnetic coupling that puts me off the solar pumps. Garry's one looks like it. Don't think that Chinese one is the same Bren, surely they'd be mentioning the fact that its magnetically coupled in their sales blurb?

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A spot of pumping
Post by: brenmurph on April 27, 2014, 11:12:37 AM
On alixpress the vender does not get paid til the customer is satisfied with product. I've never had issues. Tracked china post is the norm as well. Just received my micro scale friday arrived signned for by postman. And a luvly piece of kit 10 euros inc tracked shipping