I moved onto cold conditioning and using proper finnings a few months ago but I'm not getting much success with it.
Hopefully I nail it on the next batch but I was wondering about everyone else's process here.
I get a good hard boil, chill to -1 after secondary then get a good chill haze going. I used isinglass first but results weren't noticeable enough.
Tried the auld gelatine trick there but no use on the next batch either.
Beers have been clear at ambient temp but that's not what I'm aiming for. Also means we're not into 'permanent haze' as well.
I'm considering PVPP, but it's pricey.
I refuse to be beat by this and won't be happy till I've got crystal clear beer at -2 degrees.
Any suggestions?
You using Irish Moss post chilling?
Thought I'd missed out on something there. No I use plenty of whirlfloc and that. no probs with break material.
Just looking for some industrial strength finnings I think. I'll give the next IPA another go with gelatine and see how it goes.
I understood IPA is accepted to be somewhat hazy due to the heavy hopping.
I say excuses!
Hop oils can be combated with finnings. Gelatine is supposed to be decent at pulling it out.
Fairly certain I'll be spending the next few weeks perfecting this. :'(
what about this article ... any help ?
http://byo.com/american-pale-ale/item/486-conquer-chill-haze
Alex I had the same problem for 3 months. Kept thinking it was the process when I got a few beers off another brewer. They were also hazy. When I asked him he said his beers were clear as was the rest of the batch :o This then pointed away from the process. Turns out I opened the fridge and found that the sta had been set all the way up to 5 (no sure who did that but was not me). Turned back down to 3 and the haze left the beer. I guess the lesson is that not always the recipe or the process is at fault. My beer is still being served cold btw.
Can you describe the process you use to chill the wort and then separate it from the cold break materials and hop trub? Chill haze can usually be traced to problems at this stage.
I find the best way to clarify my beer is to let it sit in a keg at 2C for a week. But this works for me because I am careful to leave the cold break materials behind in the boiler. If these materials are transferred over they are very difficult to deal with if you don't use a filter set below 5 microns.
I would start by examining your brewing process. Did you always have a clarity problem,if not what changed,method or equipment. If it has always being a problem then start with the mash.
What temp are you mashing at,if single infusion mash are your temperatures correct,is the run off carrying too much debris. Remember the material that usually cause haze are proteins and Tannins.
Next is the boil,a good strong rolling boil to break down the proteins. The Irish moss at the end is important to help clump this together.
Next the cooling of the Wort. The faster you cool the wort the better. I myself have built a counterflow chiller but I am still in favour of an immersion chiller for this reason.
See, I've always wondered about the necessity to cool as quickly as possible. I know it sounds like it should make sense but how does that leave us if the recipe requires an aroma steep at 80 degrees for 1/2 hour. Are these beers always destined to be hazy because they weren't crash cooled?
-Barry
Alex, have you looked into White Lab's Clarity-Ferm product? I picked up a packet from HBC recently to try it out. My first batch is now bottled and should know in a couple of weeks what effect (if any) it has.
My kolsch went crystal with that product, I'm a believer!
Sent from my mediocre phone and an average phone app
Quote from: Ciderhead on May 07, 2013, 06:02:07 PM
My kolsch went crystal with that product, I'm a believer!
Sent from my mediocre phone and an average phone app
With clarity ferm or isinglass?
Hey lads,
I've only got haze problems since I began chilling below zero.
I've only ever bottle conditioned at ambient temps.
I of course use copper finings and have got good results from whirlfloc.
Good hard boil, leave break behind etc.
Cooling happens with an immersion chiller in 20mins depending on temp of tap water.
I honestly haven't come across haze issues in the past three years.
Just trying to get some input on how people are using post fermentation finings.
Fermented beer goes into the chiller crystal clear. Comes out like a hefe.
In my opinion it's an issue of polyphenols.
If at ambient temps the haze again disappears it makes it an issue of how I'm using my finings.
Using isinglass on its own just won't cut it.
I need auxiliary finings first to bond, then isinglass to get the last flocs out.
I think Ciderhead is on the mark with the PVPP. It's expensive but hey, It's cheaper than the off-licence and I'm learning every step.
If there is success with PVPP I'll look into different auxiliaries prior to Isinglass or gelatine. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks lads.
I found (strangely) the process of moving it into secondary gave my beer a haze.
I now let the beer sit in primary for 2 weeks and then put it in the fridge at 4C for 2-3 days - I then transfer it using a tube out of the fridge into a keg or bottling bucket.
I wouldn't crash cool below 1C - I read that somewhere.
By all accounts its good practice to go as low as -3. Freezing point is -4 to -5. I've brought it up to 0 anyhow. Thanks.
Quote from: Partridge9 on May 07, 2013, 11:48:37 PM
I found (strangely) the process of moving it into secondary gave my beer a haze.
I now let the beer sit in primary for 2 weeks and then put it in the fridge at 4C for 2-3 days - I then transfer it using a tube out of the fridge into a keg or bottling bucket.
I wouldn't crash cool below 1C - I read that somewhere.
Would you dry hop in the primary for an IPA once fermentation has calmed down? Or would you transfer to secondary for dry hopping?
Quote from: Hop Bomb on May 08, 2013, 10:00:45 AMWould you dry hop in the primary for an IPA once fermentation has calmed down? Or would you transfer to secondary for dry hopping?
The less yeast there is in a beer the more effective dry hopping will be. Yeast tend to strip away some of the flavour and aroma of hops, which is why some breweries, after fermentation is complete, drop the temp from about 21C to 17C for a few days to encourage some of the yeast to drop out. The beer is then usually transferred to a secondary container with the dry hops.
There's no major problem dry hopping in primary, but if you're looking to squeeze out as much flavour and aroma from the dry hops as possible, it is probably better to clear as much yeast as you can and transfer the beer to a secondary vessel.
Quote from: Bazza on May 07, 2013, 01:37:53 PM
See, I've always wondered about the necessity to cool as quickly as possible. I know it sounds like it should make sense but how does that leave us if the recipe requires an aroma steep at 80 degrees for 1/2 hour. Are these beers always destined to be hazy because they weren't crash cooled?
-Barry
All the research that I have done on this question is that there is no getting away from the root causes of haze. It is protein and tannins coming from the malt bill used. A protein rest around 50C can help to reduce the amount of proteins before you raise the temp to mashing temp. A good rolling boil will do a lot followed by a fast chill to fermentation temp. Your 80 degrees for 1/2 hour would suggest a temp still high enough to then follow with a crash cool.
Even having done all this chilling a finished beer will still bring out a haze and either you use fining's and or filter or you wait for months to let nature do it,that's all you can do.
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on May 08, 2013, 11:06:14 AM
Quote from: Hop Bomb on May 08, 2013, 10:00:45 AMWould you dry hop in the primary for an IPA once fermentation has calmed down? Or would you transfer to secondary for dry hopping?
The less yeast there is in a beer the more effective dry hopping will be. Yeast tend to strip away some of the flavour and aroma of hops, which is why some breweries, after fermentation is complete, drop the temp from about 21C to 17C for a few days to encourage some of the yeast to drop out. The beer is then usually transferred to a secondary container with the dry hops.
There's no major problem dry hopping in primary, but if you're looking to squeeze out as much flavour and aroma from the dry hops as possible, it is probably better to clear as much yeast as you can and transfer the beer to a secondary vessel.
I want every sniff of aroma so I dry hop in secondary all the time. I was just wondering what partridge9 does as he doesnt do secondary - just goes from 2 weeks in primary to crash cooling.
Clarity Ferm
Have an IPA cooling here.
I think another part of this is that cold break material could still be getting through to the primary.
I'm going to let it stand for two hours and siphon it off into the primary to leave as much of that behind as possible.
What WOULD be great though would be a DIY whirlpool.
Anyone had a go at this yet?
Could also free me up to move completely to pellets, which I'd happily do for utilization and freshness.
Think we've just made one.
I'll keep you posted.