National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Cider, Perry, Wine & Mead => Topic started by: LordEoin on May 19, 2013, 02:28:20 PM

Title: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on May 19, 2013, 02:28:20 PM
ingredients:
4L water
2L gorse flower
2 lemons
250g raisins or sultanas(oil free)
1 teabag
1kg table sugar
wine yeast

It's a beautiful sunday spring morning, and what better way to spend it than picking flowers to make into wine.
The Gorse is in bloom for most of the year, but spring is the best time to pick and brew the flowers.
The flowers smell like vanilla and coconut
The recipe is pretty similar to the danelion wine.

First, find yourself a few bright yellow gorse bushes like this one:
(http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/eoinlayton/Beer/19052013499_zps37209617.jpg)
Then start picking.

Don't worry about the spikes, just grab the flowers in bunches and pull them off.
You'll see pollen drop out of them, try to keep as much of it as possible.
I found that an empty 2liter milk bottle attached to my bag did a great job and allowed me to use both hands.
(http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/eoinlayton/Beer/19052013497_zps73335516.jpg)
You want to fill and stuff the 2 liter bottle and you should end up with about 250g of petals after about 15 minutes.

Back home, bring 4Liters of water to the boil and also put a teabag into a cup of boiling water.
Roughly chop/squash 250g of raisins or sultanas (check the ingredients. You want to avoid ones with added oil)
Add raisins, flowers, 1kg sugar, rinds and juice of 2 lemons (no pith or flesh), and simmer for about 10 minutes (smells great)
(http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/eoinlayton/Beer/19052013500_zpse0a5223b.jpg)

Cool the whole lot down in a sink of cold water, add your cup of tea, and once it's at about 20C add your yeast and move to primary.
My wine primary is generally a 5L water bottle, a 10 ml wood drill bit allows an airlock to fit. I should have left a bit more headroom for foaming...
(http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/eoinlayton/Beer/19052013501_zpsc38f21e0.jpg)
OG 1.088

Leave it to ferment for about a week or two, until it calms down a bit, then strain into a demijohn leaving the raisins and flowers, but bringing the yeast.
Top up the demijohn with pre boiled and cooled water.
When the fermentation is completely finished, you're cool to bottle now or rack to another demijohn for clearing.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Ciderhead on May 19, 2013, 02:52:06 PM
Nice post, Wicklow is full of the stuff at the moment and apart from the benefits my bees are getting I knew the was something else I I could do with this years crop which seems to be mad!
Do they bring bitterness or floral to the table ?
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on May 19, 2013, 03:03:00 PM
Floral, coconutty!
The vanilla scent doesn't last though.

you can also make sorbet out of them : video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IsOUrkFkLQ)
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Chris on May 19, 2013, 04:02:13 PM
Lordeoin that's great I've just finished picking my dandelions. Will have to go out and pick Gorse now. Was thinking ill do one batch of dandelion, one batch of Gorse and one batch with both in.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Chris on May 19, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
Could someone tell me why the raisins need to be oil free. I just checked and I have 2 kilos of raisins in the press 1 kilo says 5% palm oil and the other says 5% veg oil. Can I use these?
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: johnrm on May 19, 2013, 05:42:34 PM
Would steeping these in hot water drive of the oil?
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Will_D on May 19, 2013, 10:53:28 PM
The raisins are there to add "vinosity"!

Vinosity is a makey upperer of a word:

This is a country wine term from way back, It was used to replace "yeast nutrients and tannin" which country fruit and veg wines didn't have!
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Col on May 20, 2013, 01:02:18 AM
Not wishing to contradict Milord or anything ;), but I always use sultanas rather than raisins for light brews such as gorse. Also, the oil is an issue on these dried fruits - some of them are even coated with paraffin! I always steep them in boiling water for a few minutes (you will actually see a slick on the top of the water), and then strain and chop them. Looking forward to your elderflower edition, LE - they're just starting to bud now.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on May 20, 2013, 01:37:29 AM
@col: no contradiction at all. the joy of country wine is that you can pretty much use whatever you want  ;D
And yes, elderflower next, but i prefer to let them turn into elderberries as they make a gazillion times better wine later on.

Sultanas, raisins... potato, potato... i was actually thinking of putting in apricot instead, but chickened out.
I use oil free raisins (edited into the post now) like these (http://www.shamrockfoods.ie/images/products/370x220/Cali-Raisins.jpg) or these (http://i.tfcdn.com/img2/3M-1v0gAYyq67aSVlp-fEp-YlxJfnpmXypBRUlJgpa-fmlyhl5mbmJ5arJuYm1iVn6eXnJ-rDxHR99Q3NTTJ83ByNkwK9tHLKkgHAA**/fyVMtP8A)

The oil probably wouldn't be too bad for the wine but might make a mess of your demijohn.
5% of 250g = 12.5grams of oil into your gallon of wine, and as Col says, there may be wax and parafin on them too.
Steeping or boiling will probably waste most of the goodness, but might be worth a try.
I'm pretty sure I've done a few in the past with normal raisins.

The raisins can also just be left out completely if you want.

Thanks for reminding me Will_D, the raisins are for flavor and nutrient, but for tannin I added a cup of tea (no milk!)
Edited into original post now :)

I was also thinking about the loss of the vanilla 'bouquet'.. maybe a bit of vanilla pod would be a nice addition. Might make a second batch with vanilla.

@chris: dendelion and gorse would probably be quite tasty :)
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Garry on May 20, 2013, 10:12:59 AM
Great post LordEoin. I probably won't make this wine or the dandoline wine, but I love reading them anyway  :)

I assumed that raisins were added to these wines to increase the OG, it's the first I heard of them being used for a yeast nutrient. Could you use something like this (http://www.homebrewwest.ie/yeast-nutrient-100grm-55-p.asp) instead? I'm just thinking of ways to reduce the ABV of a lidl cider to make it a bit more sessionable!
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Chris on May 20, 2013, 10:33:13 AM
The raisin thing was annoying me so this is what I went with,

1litre dandelion petals
1litre gorse flowers
2 oranges
2 lemons
2litres grape juice (Lidl 79c per litre)
2 kg sugar
8 litres H2O
Cup of Barry's tea
Champagne yeast

Steeping at the moment will update with OG tomorrow.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Ciderhead on May 20, 2013, 10:44:07 AM
Quote from: Will_D on May 19, 2013, 10:53:28 PM
The raisins are there to add "vinosity"!

Vinosity is a makey upperer of a word:

This is a country wine term from way back, It was used to replace "yeast nutrients and tannin" which country fruit and veg wines didn't have!

Will my old man has vodkosity, he soaks raisins in vodka and pops a few a day for arthritis he claims, I think its just because he wants a stiffener before breakfast!
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on May 20, 2013, 03:27:58 PM
vodkosity is something completely different for me... it does not agree with me.

I'm not sure where I got the notion that raisins act as nutrient, but after a quick google it appears I'm not the only one that thinks this LINK (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/purpose-raisins-wine-recipes-20848/#post3804431)
You could use dried yeast nutrient, but that won't give the added flavor and body. They're dried grapes afterall :)

I don't think they add much to the OG.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Col on May 22, 2013, 12:46:26 AM
Actually, they can be up to 69% sugar...
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on May 22, 2013, 11:49:03 AM
yup, but I dunno how much of that you'd get out...
testing time
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on May 22, 2013, 05:24:46 PM
I decided to kill 2 birds with 1 stone and test some raisin stuff:
1 - Does the vegetable oil make a difference?
2 - How much do raisins contribute to sugar?

I measured out 1 gallon of water, took a gravity reading to make sure my hydrometer is ok, it said 1.002 which is a little off...
I boiled 250g of chopped standard raisins (with veg oil)  in this gallon of water.
A head of frothy scum formed on the top from the oil.
I put the pot into a sink of cold water to cool.
The oil clung to the sides of the pot and layered the top of the liquid.
I dipped a clean knife into it and it got covered in manky oil.
I strained the liquid back into the demijohn, topped up and and took a gravity reading.
It measured 1.010 and distroyed my demijohn and hydrometer with oil.

Results:
1 - Does the vegetable oil make a difference?
Yes, it is nasty crap that will wreck your head come cleaning time. All your equipment will have a film of oil on it.
2 - How much do raisins contribute to sugar?
250g raisins will provide 8 gravity points in 1 gallon.

An unexpected third outcome:
The Lidl raisins said sultanas on the back in other languages, so i thought, maybe they're the same thing, so I googled it and this is the diffrerence:  source (http://britishfood.about.com/od/glossary/g/driedfruit.htm)
Raisins are dried white grapes. They are dried to produce a dark, sweet fruit. The grapes used are usually Moscatel.
Sultanas are also dried white grapes but from seedless varieties. They are golden in color and tend to be plumper, sweeter and juicier than other raisins. Also referred to as Golden Raisins in the US.
Currants are dried, dark red, seedless grapes. They are dried to produce a black, tiny shrivelled, flavour-packed the grapes were originally cultivated in the south of Greece, and the name currant comes from the ancient city of 'Corinth'.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Garry on May 22, 2013, 06:21:22 PM
Nice work LordEoin, thanks  :)

By your analyses, I could reduce the OG of the lidl cider by 3 points leaving out the raisins, which would only bring the abv down to 6.2% from 6.5%. Still not sessionable, so it's probably best to leave them in the recipe? I'll have to make cider shandys I think!
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on May 22, 2013, 09:16:34 PM
no worries, it was annoying me!

An unexpected 4th outcome:
Boiled raisins are f**king delicious!
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Will_D on May 22, 2013, 09:31:05 PM
Well as I added nearly 10 times too many to the Blueshed Lidl Turbo cider we wait with baited breath!

I don't know if they were oiled/waxed/or treated with Veet but sure whats a bit of oil in yere like.

Keeps my old joints lubbed up a treat!
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: johnrm on May 23, 2013, 12:43:56 AM
Quote from: LordEoin on May 22, 2013, 09:16:34 PM
An unexpected 4th outcome:
Boiled raisins are f**king delicious!
Next time you're doing a curry, pop in a handful as early as possible and cook on a low heat.
Beautiful!

If you're into making icecream, Rum an Raisin is loverly!
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on May 25, 2013, 01:10:06 PM
Today I strained all the liquid (not sure what you call it at this stage, it's no longer must and not yet wine, unimportant...) into a demijohn today, removing all of the flowers and raisins.
It'll probably sit there bubbling away for another month :)
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Will_D on May 25, 2013, 07:36:00 PM
Are you getting any coconut aroma?

The River Cottage gorse wine recipe was for a pina-colad wine.

Every gorse bush round Malahide I've sniffed and sampled has no coconut aroma at all?
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: nigel_c on May 25, 2013, 07:46:57 PM
Was up around Howth and its FULL. Have to venture up with a bag and get some on th ego.

MMMmm coconut. Must dig out out a small bottle of my coconut and pineapple mead for the next NCB meet up.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Will_D on May 25, 2013, 07:56:18 PM
Quote from: nigel_c on May 25, 2013, 07:46:57 PM
Was up around Howth and its FULL. Have to venture up with a bag and get some on th ego.

MMMmm coconut. Must dig out out a small bottle of my coconut and pineapple mead for the next NCB meet up.
Oh!! Yes Please

BTW: For picking the flowers were thick long gloves!
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on May 25, 2013, 08:51:06 PM
Quote from: Will_D on May 25, 2013, 07:36:00 PMEvery gorse bush round Malahide I've sniffed and sampled has no coconut aroma at all?
Weird, all the ones around me smell strongly of coconut/vanilla.
From Wikipedia: 'Gorse flowers have a distinctive coconut scent, experienced very strongly by some individuals, but weakly by others'.
Maybe it's like how some people taste cucumber and some don't...

Also, a quick blast through the goolemachine to see how it is in beer suggested using them with bittering hops, but not flavor/aroma hops, and 'dry hop' with about 250g of dry flowers for a 7 gallon brew.'

Here's a description of a gorse beer : LINK (http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/mad-hatter-gorse-summer-saison/210017/)

Also, In Folklore it was said that the Danes (Vikings) could brew beer from the flower tops of Gorse source (http://www.shee-eire.com/Herbs,Trees&Fungi/Herbs/Gorse/gorsefacts.htm)
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Chris on June 10, 2013, 09:10:01 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 20, 2013, 10:33:13 AM
The raisin thing was annoying me so this is what I went with,

1litre dandelion petals
1litre gorse flowers
2 oranges
2 lemons
2litres grape juice (Lidl 79c per litre)
2 kg sugar
8 litres H2O
Cup of Barry's tea
Champagne yeast

Steeping at the moment will update with OG tomorrow.

Gorse and Dandelion Rose

OG 1.080. FG1.008. ABV 9.3%

Just bottled really happy quite sweet very summery with a beautiful colour.
Pic below
https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A9JtdOXmGp0pxc
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on June 12, 2013, 02:55:55 AM
Looks good  :) Where did the color come from?
Mine's still bubbling away mad. It's going to take another while yet.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Chris on June 13, 2013, 07:49:57 AM
The champagne yeast worked really quickly. The colour is from the Lidl blended red and white grape juice. I split the batch in two. One half in secondary to age a little and bottled second half as per pic with champagne corks, cages and a little sugar for carbonation and immediate consumption. Considering the FG 1.008 I expected it to be much drier but it is quite sweet.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on June 13, 2013, 11:50:58 AM
Yeah, I racked my dandelion wine a few days ago and was surprised at how sweet it was too.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on November 18, 2013, 12:45:03 PM
I opened a bottle of this and although it's still a bit young as wines go, the verdict is in.
Will i brew this again next year? Hell Yeah!
It's lovely and clear, the aroma from the gorse stayed, it's nice and light, you can taste the raisins and the gorse.
The vinometer says it's 17% but that can't be right...
here's a pic of the clarity and colour: (nice full glass for 'research' sake)


Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Will_D on November 18, 2013, 04:25:30 PM
That looks brilliantly clear.

Enjoy.

With the amount of quality country wines being made by NHC members it may be time to get competitive.

Who runs winemaking comps in Ireland The ICWA?

Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Ciderhead on November 18, 2013, 06:20:16 PM
Jeez the amount of nat stuff you brew with amazes me, still waiting on the fresh air brew tho :D
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Blueshed on April 13, 2014, 08:04:21 PM
got my months mixed up  :P and brewed this last week, transfered from plastic container with all the bits n bobs to a glass DJ today and now under the stairs for a few more weeks.

had 300g of petals, 170g of raisins, 2 tea bags, 2 lemons, 1 lime and 1kg of sugar with an OG of 1095.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on April 13, 2014, 10:56:41 PM
I was out shooting today and noticed the gorse flowers are very thick and fragrant.
Months mixed up or not, the gorse is at its prime :)
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Will_D on April 17, 2014, 01:42:13 PM
The sun is shinning and natures is bursting with free goodies:

Off to pick the Dandelions (They are best picked on St Georges day which for any English people reading this is on April 23rd)

Then its the Furse (Gorse to the .uk) - in the sunshine yesterday you could really smell the coconut flavours. Pina-Colda here we come!

Also clearing out the freezer of last years bounty:

Blackberry cider is on the go.

Rhubarb/Rasberry wine also doing nicely.

Next its the frozen rose hips for a Melomel

Then we have space to store this years crop.

As its only a small garden we pick and freeze as the fruit ripens. Then at the end of season there is enough to make whatever. Also freezing breaks down the cell walls and makes mashing easier
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: googoomuck on April 21, 2014, 09:31:15 PM
Going to give both this and the dandelion wine a go over the next few days, just wondering would either of the recipes work for primroses? My garden is full of them.
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: Will_D on April 22, 2014, 10:07:51 AM
Indeed it should. Just checked the good old "First Steps in Winemakin" and there is a recipe there.

You just need to be careful about certain flowers which are classed as POISONOUS:
Aconite, alder, aquilegia, azalea, baneberry, deadly nightshade(ther's a clue in the name!), bluebell, buckthorn, buttercup, celandine, columbine, charlock, christmas rose, clematis, cowbane, cuckoopint, cyclamen, daffodil, delphinium,  and so on ...
Title: Re: Seasonal Wine, May - Gorse
Post by: LordEoin on April 22, 2014, 01:09:46 PM
it'll take a hell of a lot of primrose petals! :D