I've successfully got a starter (grape method) working and I've been babying it for two weeks now, I did try to get a bread out of it, I ended up with a crazy sticky mess.
I did a bit more reading and am feeding it now towards a 100% hydrated starter, so hopefully this will help me when making up recipes that require this starter.
Any personal tips would be appreciated, also, once I have done a successful bread or two I'd happily give up some starter.
Let the bread prove slowly , try proving it in the fridge, over two days before baking, remember to have enough salt in the dough and always a water bath in the oven when baking.
I already use the water bath method with my normal loaves, but the sourdough is proving a little more challenging. That said, I have a nice starter going now and it is eventually doing what I expect it to do.
I should be able to get a loaf out of it this weekend :)
Last time I've made a starter from wholegrain rye flour.
Was feeding it every day with a spoon of flour and water for a week.
Some time ago located artizan French bakery in Swords so don't have to bake anymore.
Quote from: Jacob on May 31, 2013, 11:53:49 AM
Last time I've made a starter from wholegrain rye flour.
Was feeding it every day with a spoon of flour and water for a week.
Some time ago located artizan French bakery in Swords so don't have to bake anymore.
But the price of the artisan stuff......it's crazy. I'm actually enjoying eating my own breads :)
I can buy beer too ;)
Quote from: Eoin on May 31, 2013, 12:35:21 PM
But the price of the artisan stuff......it's crazy. I'm actually enjoying eating my own breads :)
I can buy beer too ;)
Not eating bread every day :P So once a week can spend 3.5e for a nice loaf.
Quote from: Jacob on May 31, 2013, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: Eoin on May 31, 2013, 12:35:21 PM
But the price of the artisan stuff......it's crazy. I'm actually enjoying eating my own breads :)
I can buy beer too ;)
Not eating bread every day :P So once a week can spend 3.5e for a nice loaf.
Yeah but I do find with proper bread that it holds up to a bit of staleness and doesn't have to be eaten as fresh as commercial stuff.
+1
I also find that when I make my own, I'm more inclined to use it even when it's slightly past its prime. After going to all that effort.
- breadcrumbs (especially when fried with a little garlic, olive oil, and parsley and used as a topping for spaghetti. "Poor mans parmesan" they call it in Italy.)
- Panzanella salad
- croutons - soup, caesar salad etc.
- Garlic bread - it's the future.....
Quote from: Bubbles on May 31, 2013, 04:46:38 PM
+1
I also find that when I make my own, I'm more inclined to use it even when it's slightly past its prime. After going to all that effort.
- breadcrumbs (especially when fried with a little garlic, olive oil, and parsley and used as a topping for spaghetti. "Poor mans parmesan" they call it in Italy.)
- Panzanella salad
- croutons - soup, caesar salad etc.
- Garlic bread - it's the future.....
Panzanella is nice, as is the blitzed up version, which is Gazpacho, basically.
Totally agree with all mentioned, just too lazy to bake now :)
But I have to say, there's nothing better then proper sourdough bread even just with butter!
Also I do have a special bread container that keep the bread quite fresh for nearly a week.
Oooh! A special container, do tell, with pics please. :-*
The crazy sticky mess may benefit from being worked more. Knead the dough for at least 10 minutes. You get a great bread and as a side benefit can sell tickets to the gun show! Bam Bam! 8)
Quote from: Metattron on June 01, 2013, 10:04:41 PM
The crazy sticky mess may benefit from being worked more. Knead the dough for at least 10 minutes. You get a great bread and as a side benefit can sell tickets to the gun show! Bam Bam! 8)
I was a beginner, I've been doing a few standard loaves now and have some working recipes with fresh yeast that I am successfully applying to sourdough, I've made two loaves so far and they are improving. The issue I still have is that they are not rising enough mainly because the dough was too wet, I am getting there. At least when they have risen and I turn them out of the banneton they spread out and flatten due to being too wet.
Quote from: johnrm on June 01, 2013, 09:18:31 PM
Oooh! A special container, do tell, with pics please. :-*
Sorry for delay ...
Using Breadsmart from Tupperware (http://www.tupperware.ie/)
(http://www.tupperware.ie/xbcr/ie/012888-broodbox-smart_rdax_288x216.jpg)
I've made a second sourdough at this stage, I'm finding that it doesn't tend to rise as much as the normal bread and I'm going to try some sourdough bread rolls as the next project as I have more success with rolls than with loaves so far.
It should rise just as much, it just takes longer.
I make a sponge with all the liquid and half the flour and leave that overnight. I work the rest of the flour in the next day and, from there, it takes about 5 hours to rise & prove. Once it's risen fully, your bread should be as light as one made with dried yeast.
Ive got a starter en route to me from San Francisco right now. Excited to be eating lovely bread again. My old housemate used to make this all the time. I miss him & his cooking.
Nice! From "Boudin"? :)
My starter went off, damned fruit flies.
Quote from: Bubbles on September 09, 2013, 02:01:17 PM
Nice! From "Boudin"? :)
Its originally from the Parisian Bakery which closed in 2005 (or so the seller says). http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290930458910?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
The seller is thorough anyway as I got 10 follow up emails with every possible scenario covered & what to do & not to do + recipes etc.
Quote from: Hop Bomb on September 09, 2013, 01:48:23 PM
Ive got a starter en route to me from San Francisco right now. Excited to be eating lovely bread again. My old housemate used to make this all the time. I miss him & his cooking.
Can you please offer some samples to the various yeast banks that are in operation here?
Gladly :)
Wooooo.
I started making sour doughs, and I find they are not as light and fluffy as my OHs commercial yeast home baking.
I haven't been able to resolve the issues with them, they do taste good, but are very flat and dont rise much.
Timing seems to be a key issue - they take longer to rise and you have to build your day around them. Point taken on 'refrigerator proving' though.
I was thinking of getting a proving basket to see if it helps much with keeping a rise.
Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on September 11, 2013, 04:41:58 PM
I started making sour doughs, and I find they are not as light and fluffy as my OHs commercial yeast home baking.
I haven't been able to resolve the issues with them, they do taste good, but are very flat and dont rise much.
Timing seems to be a key issue - they take longer to rise and you have to build your day around them. Point taken on 'refrigerator proving' though.
I was thinking of getting a proving basket to see if it helps much with keeping a rise.
I have a few baskets, they improve the buzz of the whole process, no other advantages really. It's cool to have the right tools.
Sent using a complex system of semaphore and ninjas.
My SF Sally starter is flying it. On day 4 now of feeding it. How is everyone baking theirs? Have any of you bothered buying a dutch oven or are you baking normally in the oven with a tray of water at the bottom for steam?
My bread is going okay. Girlfriend loves it but Im a perfectionist so not happy yet. Great sour tang off it. Good hard crust on it. Just cant get those nice big holes in it I see in other peoples loaves.
Whats your recipe?
Quote from: Hop Bomb on November 14, 2013, 05:31:17 PM
My bread is going okay. Girlfriend loves it but Im a perfectionist so not happy yet. Great sour tang off it. Good hard crust on it. Just cant get those nice big holes in it I see in other peoples loaves.
Whats your recipe?
Same here. I make a sponge. 250g flour 275 water and 100ml yeast starter. Leave that to bubble for a few hours then add 300 g flour. Knead, leave to rise, knock back, leave to rise again and bake with the water bowl in the over.
Its been working well. White flour worked best and spelt was very tasty but didn't rise as much as I hoped.
Ive been doing the same Rossa (following Hugh Fearnley Whittingstalls recipe http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/may/10/hugh-fearnley-whittingstall-recipes-sourdough). 5 loaves in & I still find the bread too dense & not very crunchy.
I decided to try Tartine bakerys country bread recipe today & OMG! Ive almost nailed it. Its by far my best bread to date today. Its a no knead recipe. You just turn it on itself every half hour. Super crunchy crust, all brown & blistery. Bread was super soft & fluffy with loads of holes in it. It didnt rise that much but thats down to letting it rise for way too long today (8 hours). It spilled over out of my proving baskets like some gloopy monster. Still well pleased. Will nail it next time hopefully with a 3 to 4 hour rise time in the proving baskets.
Recipe is here http://www.marthastewart.com/907240/chad-robertsons-tartine-country-bread & you can read almost all the recipe from the book on the amazon "take a look inside" feature here http://www.amazon.com/Tartine-Bread-Chad-Robertson/dp/0811870413/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384733218&sr=1-1&keywords=tartine+bread
Tonights bread:
(http://i.imgur.com/7MeBa9y.jpg)
Thanks Hop Bomb. Going to try again.
AxBrew
Ive been reading their blog http://tartine-bread.blogspot.ie/ & they go in to detail about fermenting over longer periods for a much better bread. 17 hours in the fridge after the initial pulling & folding every half hour. Ive got mine in there since 1am last night. Will be baking this eve so fingers crossed I get the rise Im after.
Yesterday, I made my best sourdough loaf yet (pic attached), Crisp crust and nice crumb... not much of a sour taste though. Really delighted with this as the first one I made was similar to a roof tile in shape and texture :)
Lots of the online recipes I found require knocking it back or turning it every hour and with work etc. thats not really feasible mid week. So for this one I made a sponge on Wednesday evening of 200mg starter, added 100mg white flour + 100ml water, mixed and left this overnight in the kitchen. On Thursday morning before work I added to the sponge, 160mg Flour + 20ml Water + 10 mg Salt (I might dial back on the salt a little next time) and put it in the bread machine to knead. Let it rise for about an hour, then shaped it and left it in the kitchen for the day. After work on Thursday evening I put it into the oven for 25 mins at 230C and a final 15 mins at 205C.
Are you baking on the micro-scale?
Milligrams of flour??
They should be Grams or milliKilograms ;)
Lovely rise on that loaf!
I nailed it last night also. Will post pics when Ive time. I did the bulk rise in the kitchen for 2 hours & folded it on itself every half hour. Then put it in the fridge for 17 hours to complete fermentation.
Then next evening I split it in two loaves, did a 45 mins bench rest. Then shaped the loaves & put them in the proving baskets. They went in the fridge until this morning. Best bread yet! Almost there...
All I need to do now is get some decent blades so I can score my bread without deflating it. Perfect loaf then fingers crossed.
I cant recommend the tartine bread recipe/book enough. Its bloody awesome! (if you want a more sour bread you need to leave it prove in the fridge for 12 hours or so - so it says in his book)
Quote from: Will_D on November 22, 2013, 04:43:57 PM
Are you baking on the micro-scale?
Milligrams of flour??
They should be Grams or milliKilograms ;)
It's homeopathic baking ;)
He's added that to water and the water has a memory of the flour having been there, and as a result it bakes a very wet bread.
mg ... oh jeez.... it was grams g :-[
well done Hop Bomb..
Quote from: Hop Bomb on November 22, 2013, 06:02:38 PM
All I need to do now is get some decent blades so I can score my bread without deflating it.
I had the same problem with using knives, none of the ones I had were thin enough or held an edge very well.
but I now use an old style razor blade mounted on a wooden coffee stirring stick and it works really well ..... google "bread lame" and look at some of the images
Quote from: John_C on July 04, 2013, 08:54:56 AM
It should rise just as much, it just takes longer.
I make a sponge with all the liquid and half the flour and leave that overnight. I work the rest of the flour in the next day and, from there, it takes about 5 hours to rise & prove. Once it's risen fully, your bread should be as light as one made with dried yeast.
Thanks for saying this. ever since I read it I've started giving my sourdough way longer to rise and prove and have been really enjoying the results.
There is a float test you do with the your sponge/leaven. Get a teaspoon & drop it in room temp water (usa room temp 20c haha) If it floats to the top you are good to move on to the next stage. If it doest stick the lot somewhere warm for two hours & it'll float then. My bread is awesome now haha Tartine bread book is the best cook book ive ever bought.
been getting good results with shape and texture but a little disappointed with flavour.
My starter was from just water and strong flour fed over 7 days at room temp.
have tried different methods
-using a sponge
-not using a sponge
-using rye flour in starter
- using a mix of rye and strong
- proving times are long
any tips for better sour flavour?
Quote from: rje66 on April 28, 2014, 08:16:32 PM
been getting good results with shape and texture but a little disappointed with flavour.
My starter was from just water and strong flour fed over 7 days at room temp.
have tried different methods
-using a sponge
-not using a sponge
-using rye flour in starter
- using a mix of rye and strong
- proving times are long
any tips for better sour flavour?
I have to admit, I need to revisit sourdough as my starter is no longer. I need to get one going again.
My understanding of flavour is to leave the sourdough to develop more, so it's properly sour and develops better flavour, the longer it ferments the more flavour it produces.
@RJE - for more sour let the bread proof in the fridge overnight (or 12 hours) before baking. I personally never bother. I just let it proof at room temp for 2 or so hours & bake. Makes great bread but isnt very sour.
@ Eoin - Post me a stamped addressed envelope & Il send anyone out a yeast vial full of my starter.
Quote from: Hop Bomb on May 01, 2014, 12:27:15 PM
@RJE - for more sour let the bread proof in the fridge overnight (or 12 hours) before baking. I personally never bother. I just let it proof at room temp for 2 or so hours & bake. Makes great bread but isnt very sour.
@ Eoin - Post me a stamped addressed envelope & Il send anyone out a yeast vial full of my starter.
Is it home started or does it have provenance?
Dried starter from the old parisian bakery in San Francisco. On the go with me since Sept 2013. Im sure it has its own flavour now with Galway water & doves organic strong white & strong wholemeal flour.
All you'd have to do is feed it 150gms of 50/50 flour mix & 150 grams warm water & yer good to go again.
Quote from: Hop Bomb on May 01, 2014, 01:08:13 PM
Dried starter from the old parisian bakery in San Francisco. On the go with me since Sept 2013. Im sure it has its own flavour now with Galway water & doves organic strong white & strong wholemeal flour.
All you'd have to do is feed it 150gms of 50/50 flour mix & 150 grams warm water & yer good to go again.
Ok, I'd be interested. PM me your address and I'll get you a white labs vial in the post.
Pm sent
Quote from: Hop Bomb on November 21, 2013, 01:21:44 PM
Ive been reading their blog http://tartine-bread.blogspot.ie/ & they go in to detail about fermenting over longer periods for a much better bread. 17 hours in the fridge after the initial pulling & folding every half hour. Ive got mine in there since 1am last night. Will be baking this eve so fingers crossed I get the rise Im after.
Thanks for listing that blog, very tempted in buying the book after watching all the video's of the baker Chad Robertson from tartine well worth watching to inspire even more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIIjV6s-0cA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5kKeKSfyOE
Me too! Have a starter in Drumcondra if anyone would like some to start their own.
Nice, a sourdough thread. Like a bit of baking. I've had starters on the go at various times and then don't use them enough and let them die off. Got one going again before Christmas. I use the river cottage handbook recipe. Cup of flour and s cup of water. Feed with the same daily then pour out half before feeding from day 3 on. Usually I start it with whole grain flour then convert it to white once active. I use their recipes too. It tends to be a sponge overnight then 3-4x1hr proves then a 4 hr one in the basket.
Following this bake I neglected my starter. Left it in the fridge for over a month without feeding. When I opened it it smelt really strongly of airfix glue. Few feeds and it seems to have revived though. I'll have to get a few loaves on the go again soon.
Super looking bread
To be honest, it was a bit firmer/heavier than it usually comes out. Not sure if my starter was active enough. Still tasted good.
Fore anyone looking for a kneeding technique, particularly high hydration, check out Richard Bertinet. Works really well.
http://youtu.be/kXV8mayG3W0 (http://youtu.be/kXV8mayG3W0)
That video taught me a lot!
Brill - many thanks
I spent half the day watching people make sourdough starters on youtube.
Lets see where this leads me ;D
If you're in Dublin let me know and you can have some of my starter.
Thank you.
Mine's all started and alive now. I'm feeding it daily and it's getting strong.
What do you feed yours?
I wanted to get a loaf on this weeekend but the oven decided to die and I'm still waiting on a part for it :(
No bother. Sounds like you're good to go so.
I feed it with 125g strong white, 125g wholewheat and 250g water as the recipe I use needs a 500g poolish starter, I don't do anything too complicated I follow this guide here http://stellaculinary.com/podcasts/video/how-to-make-a-basic-loaf-of-sourdough-bread-video-recipe.
Mind you I've often put it in the oven after only 4 hours or even 3, and got enough spring out of it. On a 9-5 its the only way I can have bread during the week.
i was feeding it 50:50 wholemeal:rye and it was bursting into life and pretty much doubling in size after about 2 hours.
fed it just strong white today as recommended on a few videos and it's bubbly but not risen much.
Might try wholemeal:strongWhite tomorrow and see how it reacts :)
not a bad first attempt :)
(http://i.imgur.com/3dGJr5k.jpg)
Anyone know sources of strong white flour in bulk i.e. 10kg or 16kg in Dublin at all?
Also looking for rye flour if anyone knows where to get it?
Quote from: cruiscinlan on August 31, 2015, 03:41:16 PM
Anyone know sources of strong white flour in bulk i.e. 10kg or 16kg in Dublin at all?
Also looking for rye flour if anyone knows where to get it?
I buy it in the Polish shop now, at about a euro a kg for typ 550 luksusowa.
They also do Rye flour, a little more expensive at about 1.50 a KG.
Musgraves C&C (Ballymun)
What brand do they sell Will?
Eoin, your bread looks great, but 550 luksusowa isn't really a strong flour, it's more like plain flour.
The number system they use in Poland is similar to the German system: it measures the milligrams of ash in the combustion products of 100 g of the flour. 1600-2000 is wholemeal, 400 is the "plainest" flour, and good strong bread flour is around 700-850 (it's usually called mąka chlebowa, i.e., bread flour). That said, 550 is somewhat "strong", but it won't really give you the strength you're used to with the usual stuff.
I haven't seen Polish strong flour in Ireland. For that matter, in Poland you'll find the 400-550 type flours in every corner shop, but I could only ever find the strong bread flour there online, like here: http://allegro.pl/maka-pszenna-typ-750-5kg-chlebowa-promocje-i4927877805.html (the title means "Wheat flour type 750 (bread flour)"). I came to the surprising conclusion that Poles just don't bake that much bread at home. Cakes, on the other hand....
PS. Great thread. It's getting me back into the sourdough baking plan. Never had much success before.
Quote from: Beermonger on September 01, 2015, 01:44:31 AM
Eoin, your bread looks great, but 550 luksusowa isn't really a strong flour, it's more like plain flour.
The number system they use in Poland is similar to the German system: it measures the milligrams of ash in the combustion products of 100 g of the flour. 1600-2000 is wholemeal, 400 is the "plainest" flour, and good strong bread flour is around 700-850 (it's usually called mąka chlebowa, i.e., bread flour). That said, 550 is somewhat "strong", but it won't really give you the strength you're used to with the usual stuff.
I haven't seen Polish strong flour in Ireland. For that matter, in Poland you'll find the 400-550 type flours in every corner shop, but I could only ever find the strong bread flour there online, like here: http://allegro.pl/maka-pszenna-typ-750-5kg-chlebowa-promocje-i4927877805.html (the title means "Wheat flour type 750 (bread flour)"). I came to the surprising conclusion that Poles just don't bake that much bread at home. Cakes, on the other hand....
PS. Great thread. It's getting me back into the sourdough baking plan. Never had much success before.
Interesting, Internet research had lead me to believe it was the equivalent of strong flour. Also the results from it are quite good. That may be why my pizza base doesn't throw as well as it should, thanks for that.
Quote from: Beermonger on September 01, 2015, 01:44:31 AM
PS. Great thread. It's getting me back into the sourdough baking plan. Never had much success before.
Let us know if you want part of a starter at all if you're in Dublin.
'Tipo 00' Italian flour used for pizza dough is apparently not strong flour either as I've seen it suggested.
The various Cash & Carrys aren't really an option for me as I'm on the bicycle and don't fancy braving the M50.
www.dublinfoodsales.ie/ in the Jamestown Industrial Estate [near the big parcel motel depot] will sell 16kg bags of Odlums and Rank Flours [Leviathan] direct to the public but again its a bit of a hike for me.
You should be able to buy odlums strong white in any tesco.
Quote from: Jacob on September 03, 2015, 01:00:16 PM
You should be able to buy odlums strong white in any tesco.
Peculiarly enough not in the Tesco on Parnell St. though available in the one in Phibsborough, Drumcondra & Dorset St.
The real issue is I'd like other strong flours than Odlums to try them. I've gotten the Bacheldre Watermill stuff off Amazon before. Bakeries here won't sell flour either for some reason, as I tried to get rye flour from the Bretzel before and they wouldn't sell it to me >:(.
Quote from: Beermonger on September 01, 2015, 01:44:31 AM
The number system they use in Poland is similar to the German system: it measures the milligrams of ash in the combustion products of 100 g of the flour. 1600-2000 is wholemeal, 400 is the "plainest" flour, and good strong bread flour is around 700-850 (it's usually called mąka chlebowa, i.e., bread flour). That said, 550 is somewhat "strong", but it won't really give you the strength you're used to with the usual stuff.
In the Polonez shop on Mary Street (opposite The Church bar/restaurant) I got strong rye flour 'mąka chlebowa' 'mąka zytnia' 720. 900g for 99 cent.
Awesome! Strange that they have strong rye but not strong wheat ('mąka pszenna' ~700)
Why doesn't anyone offer a "sour dough starter" like we do for yeasts?
I am sure that some are better than others. After all this is the way brewing yests developed over 200 or more years.
The idea that my jam jar of flour / water / sugar and the wild flora and fauna on MY kitchen window sill will make for great bread is a bit to hit and miss for this auld chemist!
1. on the right: Wholegrain wheat flour ('Pełne Ziarno' - mąka pełnoziarnista pszeniczna) - ~ €1.34 1kg
type: 1850 (very good for pizza etc.)
2. on the left: Whole Grain - Wheat Whole Grain universal flour or 3 Cereals Whole Grain flour, dedicated to baking bread. ~ €1.20 1kg
(http://s4.postimg.org/gmg9h7dl9/image.jpg)
3. Wholemeal rye flour - mąka żytnia razowa - not cheap (€1.94), but very good quality, my favorite flour 0.9kg
(http://s30.postimg.org/affcd0041/image.jpg)
4. Melvit's products - http://melvit.pl/products/maki/#!/maka-pszenna-razowa-1kg-typ2000 (http://melvit.pl/products/maki/#!/maka-pszenna-razowa-1kg-typ2000) (EN version available)
(http://s30.postimg.org/p2kw8eo41/image.jpg)
Pictures from yesterday, POL-SMAK Aldi Drimnagh Dublin 12
https://goo.gl/13Zz93 (https://goo.gl/13Zz93) (blue building)
(http://s30.postimg.org/68z3bepw1/image.jpg)
My last sourdough starter died after 4-5 years, my fault. Now is a good moment to start a new one.
* 100g of wholemeal rye flour [http://s30.postimg.org/affcd0041/image.jpg],
* 160-180g of lukewarm water,
(http://s16.postimg.org/tlf182s51/Starter.jpg)
Temp: 23-25oC
Next feeding after 24h
Changing into a totally different field, this is where it gets weird... My favorite Polish soup is "ŻUREK" or "ŻUR". ZUREK is made of soured rye flour (akin to sourdough), pieces of smoked sausage and weisswurst. Served in an edible bowl made of bread with boiled potatoes and halved boiled eggs and grated horseradish root:
(http://s16.postimg.org/7as89gu7p/Zurek.jpg)
(http://bookmeacookie.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/%C5%BCur-Kopiowanie-465x698.jpg)
I totally want that! Must start making some bread again now. :)
A couple of times in Poland I've had the experience of thinking "why do I smell coddle?" and it's turned out to be żurek! Must be the sausage. But the sour note of żurek makes it quite distinct.
Polish soups are really interesting and quite different from what we're used to here. There are a few sour soups, such as this żurek, there's ogórkowa which has the brine from salt-pickled gherkins in it (you can get a good approximation by making a potato and veg soup and adding the pickle water added to taste), and there are the different versions of barszcz, which are often soured with a souring mix of rye bread and beets,
I make a version of barszcz for Christmas (barszcz wigilijny) which is really very simple. The Polish Christmas meal is on the 24th, which is technically a fast day, so some of the dishes prepared are conspicuously simple. The Christmas barszcz can (exaggerating a little here!) be described as water made red with beetroot and flavoured with salt, pepper, and citric acid. There's that souring again! It can be incredibly tasty, but you have to get the seasoning just right. And the cep/porcini ravioli counterbalance the simplicity.
There's sorrel soup which isn't exactly sour, but is more less a veg soup with the addition of sorrel leaves. You can buy jars of minced sorrel leaves (labelled 'szczaw' or 'przeczier szczawiowy') in Polish shops. This is quite nice, and is improved no end by the addition of a quarter of a hard boiled egg to the soup (the yolk rounds it out, I think?)
Then there's the clear soups, the various kinds of bullion and consommé. I'm not too fond of these, but there seems to be an cultural preference for clear soups (barszcz is usually fairly clear, too.)
Then there's the ones that really make you go "what?" Sour cherry soup, wild strawberry soup and all the other fruit soups. No, you can't have it for dessert, it's the soup course!
And one of my favourites: chłodnik, which Poles blame on Lithuania, but is basically a Polish gazpacho. Made from beetroot (but don't let that put you off it), served chilled in summer.... it's lovely.
Mmmm... Polish soup. Excuse me, I'm off to drink some pickle water.
Lads I've put up a thread in the group buy section to see if there's any interest in getting some nice stoneground strong white flour or even other flours if interest is there.
Lads, you can try to use Romanian stoneground strong white flour:
(http://s1emagst.akamaized.net/products/1424/1423610/images/res_026327ff0475bc815d4a0a7899c699e6_350x350c_sce1.jpg)
Very good quality, perfect for bread, pizza, or pita bread. I got in POLO-STORES for ~80cents
Sourdough bread:
(http://s14.postimg.org/hk0tx3bmp/bread.jpg)
Quote from: bachus on September 16, 2015, 08:20:00 AM
Lads, you can try to use Romanian stoneground strong white flour:
Very good quality, perfect for bread, pizza, or pita bread. I got in POLO-STORES for ~80cents
Sourdough bread:
Bachus, is that not cake flour? 000 is based on the Italian system for fineness of grind as opposed to strength for bread making? The Romanian flour I've seen for baking has 'faina alba de grau de panificatie' or 'white wheaten bakery flour' on it as well as the ash content in this case 650.
Whatever about that it looks like you got an almighty rise out of it! Fair play.
I thought as roller mill technology developed in Eastern Europe that there was little to no stoneground flour production there any more?
DOVES ORGANIC 4 LIFE YO!
Quote from: cruiscinlan on September 16, 2015, 10:16:46 AM
Quote from: bachus on September 16, 2015, 08:20:00 AM
Lads, you can try to use Romanian stoneground strong white flour:
Very good quality, perfect for bread, pizza, or pita bread. I got in POLO-STORES for ~80cents
Sourdough bread:
Bachus, is that not cake flour? 000 is based on the Italian system for fineness of grind as opposed to strength for bread making? The Romanian flour I've seen for baking has 'faina alba de grau de panificatie' or 'white wheaten bakery flour' on it as well as the ash content in this case 650.
Whatever about that it looks like you got an almighty rise out of it! Fair play.
I thought as roller mill technology developed in Eastern Europe that there was little to no stoneground flour production there any more?
Hmmm... good point. http://www.emag.ro/supermarket/faina-de-grau-alba-superioara-000-pentru-cozonac-1kg-grania-34480/pd/D8HQJMBBM/
I am not sure now... I just mixed it with 500ml of the liquid sourdough wholemeal rye flour type 2000:
(http://s30.postimg.org/affcd0041/image.jpg)
Is anybody from Romania here?
Well even plain flour will rise given time, as after all hard wheats bred for protein content only became available in the 19th century I think when they were imported from the Ukraine and Eastern Europe to the US and Canadian grain belts. Before this change all bread production would have been done with softer flours.
Thats why some bakers are pushing for the use of heritage varieties of flours like Maris Widgeon etc. which were developed for flavour over protein content.
Much like the situation in brewing where other grains are used for flavour as opposed to the approved grains which are grown only for yield.
P.S. Anyone know if there are folks making bannetons in Ireland or the UK? Or if I could get a selection in Dublin?
Quote from: cruiscinlan on September 18, 2015, 05:05:09 PM
Well even plain flour will rise given time, as after all hard wheats bred for protein content only became available in the 19th century I think when they were imported from the Ukraine and Eastern Europe to the US and Canadian grain belts. Before this change all bread production would have been done with softer flours.
Thats why some bakers are pushing for the use of heritage varieties of flours like Maris Widgeon etc. which were developed for flavour over protein content.
Much like the situation in brewing where other grains are used for flavour as opposed to the approved grains which are grown only for yield.
P.S. Anyone know if there are folks making bannetons in Ireland or the UK? Or if I could get a selection in Dublin?
I got my banneton from China... EBay 😟
Quote from: Eoin on September 20, 2015, 01:57:49 AM
I got my banneton from China... EBay 😟
Just trying to do me bit for local crafts, doesn't look like you can get EU bannetons anyway :-(.
BTW lads, for those baking with dried yeast and looking to try a fresh yeast you can get it in the Polish/European food shops like Polonez in 100g packets for €0.49.
Quote from: cruiscinlan on October 07, 2015, 05:37:01 PM
Quote from: Eoin on September 20, 2015, 01:57:49 AM
I got my banneton from China... EBay 😟
Just trying to do me bit for local crafts, doesn't look like you can get EU bannetons anyway :-(.
BTW lads, for those baking with dried yeast and looking to try a fresh yeast you can get it in the Polish/European food shops like Polonez in 100g packets for €0.49.
I'm all for local when I can...
Quote from: Eoin on October 07, 2015, 06:09:33 PM
I'm all for local when I can...
I hear ya bud.
PS for those looking for the fresh yeast its 'Drożdże' in Polish. Common brands are 'Babuni Drożdże' i.e. Grandmas Yeast and 'Drożdże domowe' i.e. Domestic yeast.
And if you haven't bought fresh yeast before... you'll find it in the fridge in the form of a little foil wrapped block.
Real Bread Ireland are hosting a load of demos and open days in bakeries this week:
http://realbreadireland.org/real-bread-demos-and-open-days-4th-to-10th-october-2015/
So I baked my first sourdough this morning. As soon as I put it on the baking stone it collapsed. It had filled the banneton to the top after 12 hours of proving. Has anyone got any idea why this happened? It still raised up a bit but prob ended up about half the height that it should have been. It tasted decent enough but I was disappointed overall.
The recipe I used is from the baker brother and it is my own starter that is 8 days old and I did the float test beforehand.
300ml sourdough culture
500g good-quality white flour
200ml warm water
Pinch of salt
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-fabulous-baker-brothers/articles/all/sourdough-bread-recipe
Quote from: BigDanny84 on October 22, 2015, 10:22:43 AM
So I baked my first sourdough this morning. As soon as I put it on the baking stone it collapsed. It had filled the banneton to the top after 12 hours of proving. Has anyone got any idea why this happened? It still raised up a bit but prob ended up about half the height that it should have been. It tasted decent enough but I was disappointed overall.
The recipe I used is from the baker brother and it is my own starter that is 8 days old and I did the float test beforehand.
300ml sourdough culture
500g good-quality white flour
200ml warm water
Pinch of salt
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-fabulous-baker-brothers/articles/all/sourdough-bread-recipe
It's a real pain in the hole when that happens to be honest. I tip it out of the banneton as gently as I can, can't really help apart from that.
Quote from: Eoin on October 22, 2015, 10:29:25 AM
It's a real pain in the hole when that happens to be honest. I tip it out of the banneton as gently as I can, can't really help apart from that.
Cheers Eoin. I thought it was gentle enough but will try it again.
*edit
Google suggests that I have over-proofed my bread. Will try a shorter time in the same place and see how I gets on.
Quote from: BigDanny84 on October 22, 2015, 10:53:49 AM
Quote from: Eoin on October 22, 2015, 10:29:25 AM
It's a real pain in the hole when that happens to be honest. I tip it out of the banneton as gently as I can, can't really help apart from that.
Cheers Eoin. I thought it was gentle enough but will try it again.
*edit
Google suggests that I have over-proofed my bread. Will try a shorter time in the same place and see how I gets on.
Yeah, I mean you get larger bubbles inside the bread, that collapse easier, but, if you don't...then it only rises half as much to start with?
Quote from: BigDanny84 on October 22, 2015, 10:53:49 AM
*edit
Google suggests that I have over-proofed my bread. Will try a shorter time in the same place and see how I gets on.
If it over-proves you end up with a really slack runny dough like pancake batter almost. What I would suggest is lowering the quantity of water you add to your mix, as there is no real set figure for this and in my experience flours vary enormously.
My basic recipe is
500g 100% starter (i.e. 250g water/250g strong flour)
500g strong flour
275ml water
15g salt
However the water added can be anything from 210ml to 275ml depending on whether I'm using Odlums strong white, Bacheldre strong flour, Tesco strong etc.
I'm currently using Marriage's Golden Crust which is a strong white flour that takes the lowest end of the liquid content for all recipes.
Hi Eoin,
It's quite easy. Our sourdough recipe is :
Day 1. 75ml natural yoghurt, 175ml skimmed milk.
Heat the milk gently, place the yoghurt into a bowl and stir in the milk. Cover and leave in a warm place for 12-24 hours until thickened. stir in any liquids that may have separated.
Day2. 120g strong white flour, stir the flour into the yoghurt, incorporating evenly. Cover and leave in a warm place for 2 days. The mixture should be full of bubbles and smell pleasantly sour.
Day 5. 100ml water, 40ml skimmed milk and 175g strong white flour. Add the flour to the starter and mix in the water and milk. Cover and leave in a warm place for 12-24 hours.
Day 6 the starter should be quiet active now and be full of little bubbles.
Now it's ready for use and should be stored in the fridge.
Now take 250g strong white flour and 250g rye flour, Add 350g sourdough starter and 250ml water plus 10g salt. Mix this together, then turn it out on to a clean kitchen surface and knead for 10 min.
Pult it then in a lightly Odiles bowl, cover with a damp tea towel and let it prove for about 3 hours. The rise will take much longer than yeast bread. Then turn out the dough on a clean kitchen surface and knock back. Portion the dough into two and shape into two ball loaves, flour generously and place each loaf seam side up in a bowel, lined with a couche cloth. Leave to prove for a further 2 1/2 hours befördert baking.
Pre-heat the oven to 230°C/425°F/Gas 7 and place a baking tray in the bottom. Turn the loaves out onto a baking tray of hot baking stone. Flour, score or glaze as required and put in the oven, put some cold Water to steam the oven. Bake for 35 to 40 min. or until a good crust has formed and the loaves sound hollow when tapped on the base.
Then feed the sourdough with 200ml water and 100g flour, put it back into the fridge for next baking.
You can now use it for the next baking and if you tread like this you can use it endlessly.
We bake our bread in an outside oven heated with timber. The result is always Perfect.
Kind Regards
Kölsch
Cheers for the replies guys, all very helpful.
My recipe has been:
300g of starter
500g of strong white flour (odlums)
200ml of water
10g of salt
I have had better results proving for a shorter period of time just like Kolsch has suggested instead of proving over night. I still think the bread could have more flavour/sourness. Perhaps I might try to make a different starter.
Thanks guys
Quote from: BigDanny84 on October 26, 2015, 03:02:44 PM
I still think the bread could have more flavour/sourness. Perhaps I might try to make a different starter.
Thanks guys
If you're looking for real sour kick you could have some of my starter if you'd like. I certainly find it sour enough, although you can always ramp up the sourness by proving in the fridge for a long period.
Quote from: cruiscinlan on October 28, 2015, 03:57:22 PM
If you're looking for real sour kick you could have some of my starter if you'd like. I certainly find it sour enough, although you can always ramp up the sourness by proving in the fridge for a long period.
Cheers Cruiscinlan, I may take you up on that offer if my own doesn't improve.
Thanks
Quote from: Kölsch on October 25, 2015, 04:41:31 PM
Hi Eoin,
It's quite easy. Our sourdough recipe is :
Day 1. 75ml natural yoghurt, 175ml skimmed milk.
Heat the milk gently, place the yoghurt into a bowl and stir in the milk. Cover and leave in a warm place for 12-24 hours until thickened. stir in any liquids that may have separated.
Day2. 120g strong white flour, stir the flour into the yoghurt, incorporating evenly. Cover and leave in a warm place for 2 days. The mixture should be full of bubbles and smell pleasantly sour.
Day 5. 100ml water, 40ml skimmed milk and 175g strong white flour. Add the flour to the starter and mix in the water and milk. Cover and leave in a warm place for 12-24 hours.
Day 6 the starter should be quiet active now and be full of little bubbles.
Now it's ready for use and should be stored in the fridge.
Now take 250g strong white flour and 250g rye flour, Add 350g sourdough starter and 250ml water plus 10g salt. Mix this together, then turn it out on to a clean kitchen surface and knead for 10 min.
Pult it then in a lightly Odiles bowl, cover with a damp tea towel and let it prove for about 3 hours. The rise will take much longer than yeast bread. Then turn out the dough on a clean kitchen surface and knock back. Portion the dough into two and shape into two ball loaves, flour generously and place each loaf seam side up in a bowel, lined with a couche cloth. Leave to prove for a further 2 1/2 hours befördert baking.
Pre-heat the oven to 230°C/425°F/Gas 7 and place a baking tray in the bottom. Turn the loaves out onto a baking tray of hot baking stone. Flour, score or glaze as required and put in the oven, put some cold Water to steam the oven. Bake for 35 to 40 min. or until a good crust has formed and the loaves sound hollow when tapped on the base.
Then feed the sourdough with 200ml water and 100g flour, put it back into the fridge for next baking.
You can now use it for the next baking and if you tread like this you can use it endlessly.
We bake our bread in an outside oven heated with timber. The result is always Perfect.
Kind Regards
Kölsch
Followed this recipe and has worked out with a better flavour than other attempts in the past,
Still takes ages though, but worth the effort.
Need to work on the "shape" now, winter a bit flat when I tipped it out of banneton.
See attached