The story so far,
The 3 tier system is Mash Tun on the left,HLT is the middle and Kettle is on the right.
Mash Tun,
Hot Liquer Tank,
Kettle,
Herms pot,
Pumps,
Amazeballs
That's cool 8) The timber cladding on the kegs looks the berries, credit to ya. Have you insulation under the timber?
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_louyorHJ1I1qba508.gif)
I put expandable foam between the timber and the kegs. Just working on a cooling coil to fit inside the Kettle,I have a counterflow built but I am more convinced about cooling the whole wort in place first before transfer. Has me stalled at the moment. :-\ :-\ :-\
Very Nice!
bastard
I've been wondering how to incorporate a brewery into the shed pub I've been dreaming about.
This is a beautiful setup.
Quote from: Billythegypsy on June 04, 2013, 05:55:08 PM
I've been wondering how to incorporate a brewery into the shed pub I've been dreaming about.
This is a beautiful setup.
youve got a shed beside your wagon? :P
now that IS backwards.
Nice build Brian. Im gonna get one a them when i grow up.
Nice work Dempsey! Looking forward to the first batch of monkey nut brown ale!
When are the conical fermenters being put in?
Quote from: JimmyM on June 04, 2013, 06:20:51 PM
Quote from: Billythegypsy on June 04, 2013, 05:55:08 PM
I've been wondering how to incorporate a brewery into the shed pub I've been dreaming about.
This is a beautiful setup.
youve got a shed beside your wagon? :P
now that IS backwards.
Nice build Brian. Im gonna get one a them when i grow up.
If you ever say that to me again, I'll put your head through the wall.
Nice, love the cladding.
Where did you end up with the Boiler Element Brian?
(Isn't Chartreuse a liquer?)
Quote from: Billythegypsy on June 04, 2013, 11:28:08 PM
Quote from: JimmyM on June 04, 2013, 06:20:51 PM
Quote from: Billythegypsy on June 04, 2013, 05:55:08 PM
I've been wondering how to incorporate a brewery into the shed pub I've been dreaming about.
This is a beautiful setup.
youve got a shed beside your wagon? :P
now that IS backwards.
Nice build Brian. Im gonna get one a them when i grow up.
If you ever say that to me again, I'll put your head through the wall.
Haha ok Fintan.
Quote from: johnrm on June 05, 2013, 01:09:47 AM
Nice, love the cladding.
Where did you end up with the Boiler Element Brian?
(Isn't Chartreuse a liquer?)
As you might remember this thread it is holding up fine.http://nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,263.0.html. I have run a few boils of water in it and it does the job fine. The timber adds insulation as well as protecting my delicate skin from being scorched when I go near it. The last issue I need to complete is the Heat Exchange after boil. I have a counterflow unit made but I really want to chill down the wort in the Kettle before transfer,so,I have being toying with the idea of installing an immersion chiller into the Kettle. :-\
Have you thought about how you would separate the cold break if you use a chiller inside the kettle?
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on June 05, 2013, 01:35:35 PM
Have you thought about how you would separate the cold break if you use a chiller inside the kettle?
Well the picture of the inside of my Kettle does not show it yet but I had planned to fit a screen plate like what I have in the mash tun. This will hold back the hops and let the wort be drawn from underneath this plate. The cold break should be settled with the whole hops.
I use a hop stopper in my boiler and I found that although it's great at filtering pellet hops (as long as you use a siphon tube on the outlet to ensure a steady flow), the hazy cold break material often gets through. To help clear the cold break I was thinking of draining the wort out through the hopstopper and chilling it in a secondary vessel and then siphoning off the trub. It's an extra step but not too much hassle. Another option would be to add a hop back as a sort of secondary filter downstream from the boiler. I'd love to give this a go but it would require using whole leaf hops, which I tend not to have in stock very much.
In any case, if you plan to chill in the boiler you'll probably need to use a very fine mesh for pellet hops, unless you'd prefer to prefer to take corrective action at a later stage (e.g. aging the beer at cold temps, using finings or filters etc.)
I never used hop pellets before so I was asking others who have how best to go about them and the reply was to put them in a hop sock and then into the Kettle. I am currently re-examining my options and am now rethinking the use of my counterflow. I am looking at using it first to recycle the wort until the temp have dropped and then run it to the fermenter. :-\
Putting pellet hops in muslin bags definitely avoids filtering problems; just be sure not to put too much in each bag or you'll get dry clumps. I find that 30g works well.
Out of interest, what advantage do you see in using a standard chiller over a counterflow one?
When you switch off the Kettle your hops are continuing to isomerize until you get below 60C,so if you are taking along time to transfer via the counterflow the remaining wort is still hot in the kettle. The other issue is the cold break,by cooling and transferring straight to the fermenter you bring it with you.
If you recirculate and create a whirlpool would that work?
An immersion chiller can take time to chill the wort down so alpha acids can still be drawn out. I don't think this offers a clear reason to choose one over the other (but one may still be slightly better than the other).
In terms of cold break, this can be a problem in both setups. It all depends on how it's filtered out. With an immersion chiller I find that I get the best results by letting the wort settle for 10 minutes after it has cooled and then gently siphoning it off the trub. But I always lose two to three litres this way so as not to disturb the trub. Some people use devices like the hop stopper to try to filter cold break material out after chilling, but as I said earlier I don't think it works very well.
With a counterflow chiller you could also use a hop stopper, but as you say there is still the problem of filtering the cold break out downstream of the chiller before it gets to the fermenter. Short of actually using a proper filter (3 to 5 micron would do it) I think the best option is to recirculate in such a way that you create a whirlpool in the boiler. Let the trub settle in a cone in the middle and then gently drain the boiler from the side. This is what many breweries do and it works a treat if you can chill the wort quickly and get a really good cold break.
I am going to go the recirculation method,(I think). I can maybe have a filter between the outlet tap on the Kettle and the pump before it returns to the Kettle and creates a whirlpool. What sort of design of a filter would suggest.
If you use a whirlpool there is probably no need to use a fine mesh filter. A false bottom that prevents whole hops clogging your pump would be sufficient (assuming that you don't use mountains of pellet hops, which might also lead to clogging). The whirlpool would then do most of the separation work for you. All you would need to do is to figure out a way to drain the wort away from the trub cone in the middle of the boiler.
Now I have a thought on that. I was considering the false bottom to have no drainage in the middle,this is where the dip tube pipe goes through to the very bottom. The whirlpool should cause the hops and general gunk to form in the middle on top of this plate and allow the wort to drain off the sides of the plate and under it. From here it is then siphoned by the dip tube and pumped through the counterflow and back to the top of the Kettle. :)
The Trub will approach the center of the Whirlpool down the walls and along the bottom of the vessel and may clog your outer diameter drainage holes or the edge of the false bottom and potentially get dragged out at drain down.
I reckon a false bottom that had only holes in the outer third (as you mentioned) and angled so they are pointing to the center or raised slots tangential to the center will keep the trub flowing into the middle. An inner diameter lip at the interface between the perforated and non perforated section facing in at a 30 to 40 deg angle allowing the trub into cone and the trapping it would then hold it in there. Also having the drainage coming up from the middle and off to the valve will have a negative effect on stable vortex generation, the drain down probably needs to be from below.... but if all the above worked all the solids would collect in the center!
Ok! so where do we send the patent application!!! Lads we need to go into manufacture!!! Hang on a sec is this in the Members only area. Nope! Ah dammit! We could of been millionaireeeeeeessssss!! :'( :P ::) ;)
Thinking now of moving the dip tube to the side. This will leave some wort in the middle but should help with the whirlpooling.
Would imagine having it at the side would be best alright. If the cone develops in the center it'll displace some wort so the losses shouldn't be unacceptable. Probably a much simpler build too.
Brian Just as quick question. I do not see any extraction?? Do you have that and it is not in the pictures or is a future upgrade?
Quote from: Stitch on June 11, 2013, 10:51:21 AM
Brian Just as quick question. I do not see any extraction?? Do you have that and it is not in the pictures or is a future upgrade?
When you say extraction,do you mean the steam from the boil kettle,if so your right it is not shown on the pictures. I will be posting up some more pictures soon showing it and the counterflow system which now has a chiller unit (Brenmurph's advice). This will allow me to drop the temp of the boiled wort lower than the current ground water temp which is approx 15C.
What are you using as a pre chiller? Ice bucket & another coil or something fancier?
The cooler/chiller I will be using is a undercounter pub flash cooler.
The initial water I plan to flow through the counterflow will be direct ground water so as to take out the 95 degree+ wort temp and when that's done I can redirect the ground water through the chiller to bring down the rest of the wort temp.
Some more work has being done,nearly there ::),
redesign of the dip tube to now draw from the side
The 2 other bent tubes are the wort transfer from the mash tun and the whirlpool return pipe,
whirlpool pipe
The counterflow chiller first showing it supplied direct from ground water then redirected to pass through the chiller and back to the counterflow
Next the clear/braided pipe sends the ground water up to the chiller which it passes through and returns via the green pipe to flow through the counterflow.
Finally the water,having passed through the counterflow chiller is passed out through the she, ???brewery wall ;) and down the drain. I have a split on the pipe to allow me fill a bucket with the first runnings as that would be hot water and ideal for cleaning up.
Once again, amazeballs 8)
Where did you source the pub cooler? How cold does the water get running through it?
Quote from: DEMPSEY on June 12, 2013, 03:48:58 PM
The 2 other bent tubes are the wort transfer from the mash tun and the whirlpool return pipe,
whirlpool pipe
Where did you get the ss tubing and where did you get the silicone tubing? AND what size are they all?
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on June 12, 2013, 04:11:03 PM
Once again, amazeballs 8)
Where did you source the pub cooler? How cold does the water get running through it?
I bought 2 coolers a few years back when they became available on donedeal,only now getting to use one. Tested it and got the ground water flowing at 1.7 degree C.
Quote from: Il Tubo on June 12, 2013, 04:42:21 PM
Looks good! But can this not be done a bit simpler? It sticks out a lot for something that is there to avoid creating turbulence in the whirlpool.
not really,I have a 1/2" barrel nipple welded in and now only need 10m pipe to pass through it so what your looking at is a 1/2" nipple with a 10mm reducer fitted to allow the 10mm stainless pipe pass through it,then a 10mm elbow to get a bend.
Quote from: Rossa on June 12, 2013, 05:59:14 PM
Where did you get the ss tubing and where did you get the silicone tubing? AND what size are they all?
I bought the stainless steel tubing a good while ago but the source is gone. You can get it from http://www.totalstainless.ie/ and you can get some from B&Q. The B&Q is imperial sizes but is not seamless. Seamless tubing is ideal because it will bend free hand without kinking.
hi dempsey.... I see u went for it after our chat on saturday... great...
is that brown pump a solar panel pump or specially for food grade pumping? its like one I bought.. Is it effective enough to circulate the wort via the mash?
Yeah they are the solar pumps I am using except for the Totton pump which I got from norm in the UK.
Quote from: DEMPSEY on June 12, 2013, 07:38:25 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on June 12, 2013, 04:42:21 PM
Looks good! But can this not be done a bit simpler? It sticks out a lot for something that is there to avoid creating turbulence in the whirlpool.
not really,I have a 1/2" barrel nipple welded in and now only need 10m pipe to pass through it so what your looking at is a 1/2" nipple with a 10mm reducer fitted to allow the 10mm stainless pipe pass through it,then a 10mm elbow to get a bend.
Could you put a 1/2" FxM elbow onto the nipple, then put your 10mm reducer onto to M side of the elbow? It might get you a bit closer to the wall of the keg?
Quote from: Garry on June 13, 2013, 09:35:11 AM
Quote from: DEMPSEY on June 12, 2013, 07:38:25 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on June 12, 2013, 04:42:21 PM
Looks good! But can this not be done a bit simpler? It sticks out a lot for something that is there to avoid creating turbulence in the whirlpool.
not really,I have a 1/2" barrel nipple welded in and now only need 10m pipe to pass through it so what your looking at is a 1/2" nipple with a 10mm reducer fitted to allow the 10mm stainless pipe pass through it,then a 10mm elbow to get a bend.
Could you put a 1/2" FxM elbow onto the nipple, then put your 10mm reducer onto to M side of the elbow? It might get you a bit closer to the wall of the keg?
No because if I did that then the wort would be pooling in the 1/2" nipple before it then travels on to the FV. The 10mm pipe passes through the 1/2" nipple and into the the 10mm elbow. If I were planning something like this again and decided to drain my kettle with 10mm instead of 1/2" pipe then I would not have fitted the nipple.
1/2" pipe fitted to drain the Kettle is fine but if the wort is going to pass through 10mm pipe in the counterflow then there is no point in having 1/2" pipe fitted. ???. Forward planning and all that. ::) Now if I was starting again :)
Hindsight is 20/20 >:(
My new dip tube design which draws from the side leaves 2.1 Litres in the Kettle. I have being told that the weight of the spent hops will push the wort out to the sides thus allowing me to draw it off. What does anybody else think. :-\
does that brewery do tours Dempsey? :D ust drop up there to have a look....Ill only stay an hour cos rumour has it the chief brewer will burn the ears off ya with techy stuff an all that.. :-\
wudnt mind havin a look so I can rob some of their secrets ;)
Your more than welcome,always looking to have someone throw an eye over things and maybe have a few upgrade suggestions.
The wiring of the Brewhouse is complete
32 amp fuse in the fuse board and 6 square cable run to the Brewhouse to allow my Electric brewery rock. :) Roll on the ESB bills :'(
No RCBO??? Water and electricity? Is the MCB sufficient?
Would have expected to see interlock relay between shower and brewery also?
Sorry for being picky or maybe I have missed something that may not be in the picture.
Any chance of photo of inside the control panel?
Dont worry about being picky,picky I like,I will have a friend of mine throw an eye over it all. He is an electrical contractor :).
Also that looks like 2.5sq cable. I would suggest maybe upgrading to 6sq at least but by right should be 10sq. Have you measured/calculated the full load?
Dont forget the mcb is only there to protect the cable.
I used 6 sq allright and the linear length 12 metres from board to shed. Was told that my requirement was only 4 sq.
Quote from: Il Tubo on June 26, 2013, 03:21:10 PM
Quote from: Stitch on June 26, 2013, 02:44:10 PM
No RCBO??? Water and electricity? Is the MCB sufficient?
Would have expected to see interlock relay between shower and brewery also?
Sorry for being picky or maybe I have missed something that may not be in the picture.
Any chance of photo of inside the control panel?
All good points. A couple of questions tho, for you Rob as it sounds like you know what you're talking about!
Main house RCD, is that not sufficient? Does the shed really need one?
Is the interlock relay not just nice to have? i.e. as long as Brian doesn't shower while doing a boil he'll be fine!
Yeah interlock is nice. As you said Tube just need to make sure that the shower is not used at the same time. The best thing really would be a sub board in the shed.
If you came out of the back of the RCBO might be OK but looks like supply to the shed is its own feed.
Brian depending on load 4sq could do it. Dont forget the MCB does not just trip on current. It will also go on temperature. That is a B type breaker so it would be from 3 times to 5 times current before it will trip (depends on manufacturer)
If it were me I would place a board in the shed (maybe 20Amp) with RCBO just because you have an electric element in water.
I would be curiou to know the calculated or measured load?
Quote from: Il Tubo on June 26, 2013, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: Stitch on June 26, 2013, 03:08:25 PM
Also that looks like 2.5sq cable. I would suggest maybe upgrading to 6sq at least but by right should be 10sq. Have you measured/calculated the full load?
Dont forget the mcb is only there to protect the cable.
I sized the cable for Brian using this calculator (http://www.doncastercables.com/technical/cable_calculator/), and this is the result...
You have the be careful here. That calculation is based on 100DegC!!
I would always base mine on room temperature (as would most sparks)
As the temperature increases the cable is capable of carrying a bit more current.
Yep that is how I would have done it. You even added an extra 2kw for misc which is good (you need that radio on while brewing) ;)
@Stitch, careful now, you are at risk of becoming the resident Spark! ;)
Some upgrades to my boil Kettle. I have gone back to a dip tube pickup from the middle and instead plan on using a hop sock. When boil is complete I will using my counterflow re-circulate the hot wort and return it to the kettle using my new design.
Je like my new lid,split so I do not disturb my chimenee ( not install in picture) while I do a hop addition. :)
Wow that is some impressive stuff -
is this brewery open for tours on fridays? :)
That's sweet!
Is the sock a home made job or can I buy one somewhere?
How are you bending the stainless steel pipe? It's tasty.
I see you've got your pump at the outlet of the chiller. I think that's where I was going wrong, I had it at the inlet. I found that the pump was under pressure. I should have been sucking instead of blowing??
BTW, if you do decide to chuck the fridge out a hotel window, you'll need to drive a Rolls Royce into the swimming pool first! Like a boss? (http://yeeshkul.com/forum/images/smilies/yourock.gif)
Thanks Garry, I have 2 pumps for my counterflow,both are solar pumps. The reason is these pumps need to be primed before they can work so when I first open the valve of the kettle the hot wort flows into the pump which is below the counterflow and that then is able to push the wort up through the pipe in the counterflow. The one in the picture you see then does its job of returning the wort to the Kettle. When all is finally cooled I then redirect the wort to the FV and so the pump in the picture is the last pump to run dry as it draws the last of the cooled wort out of the counterflow pipe ad into the FV.
As regards to the Fridge, :'( I have found a source for JB Waterweld here in Ireland. :) So I need to re-gas it now. :-\
Dempsey....ur brewery opened Fridays for tours?... U never replied?
More like Mondays or Tuesdays :)
ahhhh was off today :(
OK after not happy with the Kettle set up I went back to the original idea and put the dip tube back to the middle. Then added a sort of hop spider in which the recirculating wort will be returned into the hop bag which is hung inside the Kettle. First time around the place was like a Turkish steam house so now the new chimenee :) has this sorted. Takes all the steam out,n.b. brewday at Wolstan smells like st James street.
Oh and the new split lid means I can add late hops and such without having to move the chimney.
Did a brew using the spider/bag and would NOT recommend this course. The purpose of re-circulating the wort back through the bag was fine. By doing this the hot and cold break was being caught in the bag and held there by the hops,however,the bag is no way big enough and with 90 grams of hops it struggled to contain both the hops and the break material. It also did not drain to well because the sticky break clogged the material :(. Soo onwards and upwards and here is the new design. It is a copper pipe frame with slits cut into the pipe and wrapped in a stainless steel mesh pouch. Tested it last night and it drains well and re-circulates well. Will be doing a test brew to check its ability to handle both pellet and whole hops. ::)
The difference with this is the whole of the kettle floor will settle with hops and break so as I drain it will give me a bigger surface area.
These guy's did it and mine's better ::)
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/boil-kettle?page=3
Quote from: DEMPSEY on June 18, 2013, 09:04:09 PM
My new dip tube design which draws from the side leaves 2.1 Litres in the Kettle. I have being told that the weight of the spent hops will push the wort out to the sides thus allowing me to draw it off. What does anybody else think. :-\
How is the stubby dip tube at the side wall working out? Have you pinched the opening of it to make it smaller?
Quote from: Hop Bomb on September 24, 2013, 01:59:53 PM
Quote from: DEMPSEY on June 18, 2013, 09:04:09 PM
My new dip tube design which draws from the side leaves 2.1 Litres in the Kettle. I have being told that the weight of the spent hops will push the wort out to the sides thus allowing me to draw it off. What does anybody else think. :-\
How is the stubby dip tube at the side wall working out? Have you pinched the opening of it to make it smaller?
If you read posts 79 and 81 you will see that it did not work out so I reverted back to a dip tube draining from the centre. Th is dip tube is drawing the wort through a copper pipe framed square wrapped in a stainless steel sieve pouch. The first amount of mesh was from a kitchen splatter screen that was supposed to be stainless steel but actually rusted so I purchased 2 sheets from a company in the UK. did not try it out yet because of recent family matters. Will be brewing next week to see how it stands up and will post on its results.
Sorry, missed the post where it said about your license... you are going pro, aren't you?
Hats off, man.