I straightened out 6.5m of 10mm copper.
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20001.jpg)
The outer tube is going to be ¾" pex (6m long) so I wrapped some ø3mm solder wire around the copper to act as a spacer between the inner tube and outer tube. The solder would also give the cooling water some turbulence.
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20002.jpg)
I put washing-up liquid into the pex pipe for a bit of lube and ran some water through it.
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20003.jpg)
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20004.jpg)
Then slide the copper pipe into the pex until I have 250mm of copper sticking out both ends.
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20005.jpg)
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20006.jpg)
I fixed one end of the pex to a gas cylinder with cable ties. Then wound the pex around the cylinder tying it every 90° or so.
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20007.jpg)
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20008.jpg)
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20009.jpg)
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20011.jpg)
Next I put the fittings together.
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20012.jpg)
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20013.jpg)
I had to drill out the shoulder in the 10mm reducer to allow the 10mm pipe to pass through it.
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20014.jpg)
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20015.jpg)
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20016.jpg)
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20017.jpg)
Next job was to test it out. The cooling water coming from the tap was 19-20°C. The "wort" was 21-22°C coming out of the chiller. I was a little worried using pex pipe as it is not supposed to be used at high temperatures. When the cooling water was on full the water exiting the cooler was only around 31-33°C. I was expecting it to be much hotter! You could turn down the flow of the cooling water and then the water exiting the chiller would start steaming while the wort would come out at about 25-30°. It's probably more efficient this way and you could recycle the hot water for cleaning the gear when you're finished.
(http://www.3dsteel.ie/images/nhc/counter_flow/garrys_counter_flow_chiller%20018.jpg)
[Edit 10/6/2013, revised size of solder wire, should be ø3mm]
Super job Garry!
Next trick is acquiring Silicone ie similar hose between boiler and chiller.
At the ends you could have used a 10mm compression fitting to 1/2"BSP no need to drill and you have the compression olive to seal the copper!
Good job Garry! Is the soldering wire wrapped around full lenght of copper pipe? I like your posts as well. Plenty of pics, everything explained enough to copy a home if anyone wants to. Thumbs up!
@Will, most fittings I have come across have a 'stop' in there. I have filed these out in the past to go 'through' rather than stop.
@Garry, how are you securing the solder at each end? Is there a risk that over time you could end up with a blockage if the solder moves in the cooling circuit?
Nice job!
What is the procedure for cleaning counterflow chillers? I'd be concerned about build up of copper sulfate in them. You wouldn't really have any way of knowing what condition the interior of the pipe is in. I find it difficult to get the water out of my immersion chiller and usually put it in the oven to get it dry.
Quote from: johnrm on June 09, 2013, 08:48:16 AM
Next trick is acquiring Silicone ie similar hose between boiler and chiller.
Definitely, the garden hose doesn't like the heat. Can't imagine it would do the beer any favors either.
Quote from: Will_D on June 09, 2013, 09:40:55 AM
At the ends you could have used a 10mm compression fitting to 1/2"BSP no need to drill and you have the compression olive to seal the copper!
I didn't know that Will. A few months ago, I didn't even know how a compression fitting worked :o I'm learning as much about plumbing fittings as I am about making beer.
Quote from: alealex on June 09, 2013, 11:04:22 AM
Is the soldering wire wrapped around full lenght of copper pipe?
Yes, it's wrapped around most of the inner tube. There might be 100-150mm at the ends which aren't done.
Quote from: johnrm on June 09, 2013, 12:20:35 PM
@Garry, how are you securing the solder at each end? Is there a risk that over time you could end up with a blockage if the solder moves in the cooling circuit?
I just taped it with some electrical tape on one end! I can't see the solder moving too much especially when the whole thing is coiled in a helix. I was going to put a spot of solder every few inches but I couldn't get any flux or gas torch on time. I think it will be ok, time will tell.
Quote from: imark on June 09, 2013, 12:29:00 PM
What is the procedure for cleaning counterflow chillers?
My plan is recirculate the wort for about 10 minutes through the chiller with the cold water turned off to sanitise it. For cleaning I'm thinking of pumping some oxi cleaner through it, then rinse with hot water? I'd like to hear how others do this actually?
Maybe a length of copper wrote soldered [EDIT:showered] at the ends...
Quote from: johnrm on June 09, 2013, 11:14:36 PM
Maybe a length of copper wrote showered at the ends...
Me no understand :P ;D F'n' autocorrect ;)
Edited above.
Maybe it you use the core from that 2.5 household wire. (Live, Neutral and Earth in one flat cable )
Its copper, so should solder easily to the copper pipe.
Garry,I like your can do attitude. If it needs doing,do it. :)
I built one of these and then Cathalbrua and I built one for him and took some pic's. I was planning a wiki for it but maybe we could do this with what we have learnt. Here is Cathalbrua's one.
The inner pipe is 10mm stainless steel, the pipe bender pole is courtesy of Celbridge train station but any train station or Tesco will do. The outer pipe is 18mm ID and fits a 1" copper fitting. :)
Have you a bit more detail on the outer pipe Brian?
Type and Source
Thanks
The outer pipe is clear plastic pipe that I got in B&Q but it is not easy to get there. Cathalbrua got his up at the old airport road at
http://www.jjgillan.ie/ The pipe is 25mm OD and 18mm ID. Not cheap but allow plenty of cooling water to flow through it and around the 10mm pipe. Although we used 10mm S/S pipe the copper will work better on heat exchange and is much easier to bend. Went for S/S because I was not comfortable with not seeing the inside of the copper regarding cleaning. :(
Just noticed that the above mentioned company have a Cork branch.
Cork Branch: Unit G, Sitecast Industrial Estate, Pouladuff Road, Cork.
P +353 (0) 21 4965654 - F +353 (0) 21 4965656
Quote from: johnrm on June 10, 2013, 09:13:48 AM
Edited above.
Maybe it you use the core from that 2.5 household wire. (Live, Neutral and Earth in one flat cable )
Its copper, so should solder easily to the copper pipe.
Yes, that's the way I've seen it done by a few youtubers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVf-lTFpR2c). I used the solder because it is 3mm
diameter (I said 4mm above, that's wrong!) and it filled the gap nicely between the 10mm pipe and the inside of the pex. I wanted something 3 to 4mm ø. A 2.5mm² copper wire is only 0.9mm diameter.
Cost was a factor too, a 500 gram reel of solder is only €5 and I still had some left over. You could probably get 7m of twin and earth cable for a similar price but a 500 gram reel (about 7.5m) of 3.25ø copper costs about 15 - 20€ (delivered).
The 2.5mm² wire would be fine if you just wanted it for turbulence but my main reason for using the wire was for a spacer. I was worried that the copper tube would just be pushed up against the inside wall of the pex in places. It probably wouldn't effect the cooling efficiency too much but I wanted the copper to be in the centre of the pex as best as possible.
I could/should have soldered the wire to the copper but didn't have the patience! :P
Nice work Demsey and Cathalbrua :)
That's a lot tidier than my one. I was afraid to bend the pex pipe any tighter, the specs (http://www.qpl.ie/media/ie/QPL_PDFs/PEX-Technical-Literature.pdf) say the minimum bend radius is 175mm. I think mine is about R160mm so I'm just pushing it! You've got some extra flexibility with the pvc. I bet the clear hose will look cool with the cooling water whizzing around too?
What's the total length of your chiller?
Is there a big benefit to using the counter flow chiller over an immersion chiller??
To my mind this would be harder to clean and sanitise. Also you are still have the same surface area of cold water passing over hot wort.
Granted if you have a brewing sculpture it could be made a permanent fixture which would be handy.
Garry the total length is approx 6 metres as that is the length of the seamless stainless steel pipe. An immersion chiller will chill the wort in place and so help leave the cold break with the hot break and the spent hops, a counterflow chiller can do the same if you use it to return the cooling wort back to the Kettle before you transfer to the fermenter.
Quote from: DEMPSEY on June 10, 2013, 10:11:07 AMWent for S/S because I was not comfortable with not seeing the inside of the copper regarding cleaning. :(
I have the same worry but I'm not sure how much of a worry it really is. It's pretty difficult I imagine to completely dry the inside of a long piece of coiled copper tubing and I'd worry about nasty deposits forming. But then again I'm probably being paranoid. They say water in the normal pH range (which is what you'd use to flush the tube out afterwards) poses no great risk, but I don't like the idea of it just sitting in there for weeks on end.
Solution 1: Brew more beer ;)
Solution 2: Keep filled with water, sort-of like your plumbing at home, bung both ends. (Maybe with a mild anti-bacterial agent)
Solution 1 can be generalised to almost any problem in life I find ;)
Quote from: johnrm on June 10, 2013, 03:15:14 PM
Solution 2: Keep filled with water, sort-of like your plumbing at home, bung both ends. (Maybe with a mild anti-bacterial agent)
That sounds like a good idea. Can you get bungs that small?
In less that 72 hours entrapped water at warmish (ambient) temperatures will allow Legionella bacteria thrive and their nutrient is oxides so be careful with that option ( anti bacterial will help ) and water is never O2 free so oxidation would speed up.
The pharma industry design their systems to be free draining and by the looks of both the setups they would do that naturally, if left in a warm place between uses, the cooling water is not important as it is not in product contact!!. Bugs need moisture and heat to grow so getting rid of either or both, will stop the bugs.
As all immersion chiller users know they come out sparkley after every use and the copper oxide hasn't tainted the beer? Yet? Maybe? so that would end up in the beer but minimize the moisture and you minimize the oxidation.
Ultimately, a SIP (Steam in Place) pre use using a modified Wallpaper stripper?? ( yes the pex will be a challenge and maybe need a stainless in Copper mod ), would be an option but perhaps beyond the requirements of us average HBers.
Free draining and dry storage will keep it bug free and oxide minimized.
D
Solution 3: A Modified hairdryer to dry it out then!
Quote from: johnrm on June 10, 2013, 08:00:10 PM
Solution 3: A Modified hairdryer to dry it out then!
Maybe? You'd probably have to bypass the thermostat but home brewers are good at that :)
Any good local suppliers for the stainless steel tubing? Do you know if it is 316 grade
Would you not just recirc boiling wort from the BK though the chiller & back to the BK for the last 15 mins of the boil? I do that to sterilize my plate chiller. You drop your immersion chiller in for last 15 mins of the boil too. Same theory.