What are the pros and cons for each? The Argos kettles are 2.2kW...no idea what the CS ones are...in fact I can find very little info on CS elements (including prices). Anyone know what size holes are required for each in a plastic bucket?
They both go into the same size hole, 38mm I think!
Charlie shields ones are 2.0KW as far as I know.
The Charlie shields ones don't require any butchering and are thus safer.
They cost a little bit more than the Kettles.
I'll be paying Charlie a visit so
Quote from: delzep on June 16, 2013, 03:20:32 PM
I'll be paying Charlie a visit so
Whoaa, in the blue corner.
I have installed 8 argos elements into plastic buckets/kegs and a further two "charlies" (one has since stopped working) yet to have a failure with argos elements.
They are not any harder or simpler to install, they are harder to decamp from the kettle in the first place but I can do one in 2-3 mins now.
I don't do boil overs :P, but if I did my elements have cable aka Tubes pics above fully covering the power connections and are splash proof.
Charlies elements do need to be butchered to connect an earth if you decide to upgrade to kegs.
Smaller less intrusive Argos elements allow me easier access to draining false bottom.
I just butchered a couple of kettles no problems at all and it only took about 10 minutes :)
But I have a few questions...
Will computer cables work just as good on Argos elements? They seem to fit and I presume they're wired the same.
Are the holes 38mm for sure?
And for keg use,where on the kettle element do you run your earth from?
Quote from: LordEoin on September 17, 2013, 01:21:22 AM
I just butchered a couple of kettles no problems at all and it only took about 10 minutes :)
But I have a few questions...
Will computer cables work just as good on Argos elements? They seem to fit and I presume they're wired the same.
Are the holes 38mm for sure?
And for keg use,where on the kettle element do you run your earth from?
Earthing details here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,2432.msg29070.html#msg29070).
I think PC leads are too light for heating elements but some older PCs have heavy duty cables like those used on a UPS. You can get a plug in maplin (http://www.maplin.co.uk/hot-condition-euro-line-socket-42706)if you want to make your own.
I don't know about the hole size.
Measure the hole on the kettle before you dump it.
In dublin, plastic bucket kettle, charlie shiels elemnts is the only answer.
@ garry - cheers :)
@ john - you genius! I'll go measure me hole! (why didn't I think of that?)
@ jimmy - I was going to go plastic bucket, but that's add cost and limit size. and i like shiny metal and anglegrinders ;D
Quote from: JimmyM on September 17, 2013, 11:48:03 AM
In dublin, plastic bucket kettle, charlie shiels elemnts is the only answer.
They tried to sell me three of them though saying that every other homebrewer buys three of them...I've never seen anyone mentioning buying three of them. Bad form I think
Use 2 one spare for Brew Day failures!! To be sure to be sure!!
Lads have been known to buy 3 all right.
Bless their salesmanship!
Put one behind your ear for later ;)
Quote from: LordEoin on September 17, 2013, 11:53:52 AM
@ john - you genius! I'll go measure me hole! (why didn't I think of that?)
That's dedication for you, hand mirror and a squat? Or will you have help? :P
Sent using a complex system of semaphore and ninjas.
I suppose I could try sticking different things into my hole to find the diameter. It's quite a wide hole.
Quote from: delzep on September 17, 2013, 12:09:38 PM
Quote from: JimmyM on September 17, 2013, 11:48:03 AM
In dublin, plastic bucket kettle, charlie shiels elemnts is the only answer.
They tried to sell me three of them though saying that every other homebrewer buys three of them...I've never seen anyone mentioning buying three of them. Bad form I think
I've bought 3-4 of them each time I was there....
I only bought 2 Argos kettles, still originals! I have spares never used, 3 or 4 indeed!
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
Quote from: Padraic on September 17, 2013, 01:47:40 PM
Quote from: delzep on September 17, 2013, 12:09:38 PM
Quote from: JimmyM on September 17, 2013, 11:48:03 AM
In dublin, plastic bucket kettle, charlie shiels elemnts is the only answer.
They tried to sell me three of them though saying that every other homebrewer buys three of them...I've never seen anyone mentioning buying three of them. Bad form I think
I've bought 3-4 of them each time I was there....
are you saying you have a load of these? ???
Quote from: Ciderhead on September 17, 2013, 03:43:55 PM
I only bought 2 Argos kettles, still originals! I have spares never used, 3 or 4 indeed!
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
Don't I remember you putting up a post about giving out to people for butchering kettle elements and here you are saying you have a few. ;D
C15 Plugs - Check.
13A Plugs - Check.
Have we a source for cable for DIY Power cords?
Is this stuff up to the job?...
http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/electrical-cable/flexible_cable/Tower-Flex-Rubber-Sheathed-3-Core-479871-Black-2-5mm-x-25m-9290564
Quote from: AJ_Rowley on September 18, 2013, 01:02:19 PM
Quote from: Ciderhead on September 17, 2013, 03:43:55 PM
I only bought 2 Argos kettles, still originals! I have spares never used, 3 or 4 indeed!
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
Don't I remember you putting up a post about giving out to people for butchering kettle elements and here you are saying you have a few. ;D
Nope I use them exclusively and amazingly still on my original 2 pairs.
You are mixing me up with Padraic who stoned me a few times for pushing them :)
B&Q have smaller sizes on 3 core, any decent electrical supply shop will cut you some to length and will probably be the same cost
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/14/7agepa2e.jpg)
Is it Ohms Law?
Watts / Voltage = Amp Load
2200W / 220V = 10A
Plus some headroom, JD did you mention rated to 16A before?
50% over to be safe, so if 10A needed then rate it for 15A min.
That's it, 25a I have is total overkill but hey! The socket on the wall will melt first!
My argeos kettle elements were fine and boiling like champs, but they've started cutting out at about 80C.
Is there a way to disable their built in thermostats/thermal-cutouts ?
Are your elements nice and shiny clean and do you clean them after every use?
There is a way but not really the way to go if you can avoid it :(
I'd say I didn't clean them enough. Balls.
Ah well, crack on with my feeble gas burner :-[
what's the best way to clean them? remove them and give then a good scrubbing? or give them a boil in citric acid or something?
There was a post on here many moons ago.
Hot W5 and a toothbrush.
Or you are right good soak in citric acid from HB shop or any chemist and a brush and you will be good as new.
Look here Eoin...
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,178.msg1584.html#msg1584
A Domestic kette has 2 Bimetallic strips that shut the kettle off.
Both of these are calibrated for over 100C.
The first shut off is the 'Boil' - triggered by the steam from the water being boiled.
The steam is ducted to a Bimetallic switch and shuts off the the switch when STEAM over 100C hits it.
The second shut off is 'Dry Boil' - triggered by the element overheating.
Normally, heat is conducted away from the Kettle Element by the water being heated. If this evaporates, the element is heating air, a poor conductor, so the element goes over 100C and the Dry-Boil kicks in.
As we are hacking the core from the kettle, the 'Boil' is effectively by passed and will never kick in.
We are dealing with solutions that have a higher gravity than water, and get progressively higher from boiling/evaporation.
We are Boiling fopr 45, 60 or 90 minutes at a time.
Both of the above mean that we are touching on temps that trip the Dry Boil shut off.
It's much safer to keep your cut outs intact, they are there for a reason!
Keep your elements clean and you will never have a problem!
Have you managed to boil dry 23l? O0
Is there a boil-dry cutout in CS Elements?
I'm going to do both and look into getting a regulator.
Last thing I want is for it to cut out again later mid boil.
Thanks folks
Quote from: LordEoin on February 10, 2014, 11:56:57 AM
Last thing I want is for it to cut out again later mid boil.
+1
I think that was one of the BJCP questions...
A good rolling boil and perfect beer is far more important than personal safety. True or False ???
Have we a linky for a regulator?
NoooooooĊ
I suppose I have never had one cut out even boiling 1.1's
It's a fiddly job and you are taking out a level of safety not necessary, like when you plug in elements before you fill boiler.
They are also telling you, clean us ya doirty bastard!
You Cork fellas are living on the edge, ya mad things!
Quote from: johnrm on February 10, 2014, 01:59:53 PM
Have we a linky for a regulator?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10000W-220v-Adjust-SCR-Voltage-Regulator-Motor-Speed-control-Dimmer-Thermostat-/151077711401?ssPageName=ADME%3AX%3AAAQ%3AGB%3A1123&nma=true&si=tEXgR1StDqPhYues993toueYV9E%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
You really only need
My argos element draws just over 8A x 235mains voltage = 1880W
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-220V-3800W-SCR-Voltage-Regulator-Dimmers-Speed-Controller-Thermostat-PR/271349434394?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC.FITP%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20181%26meid%3D4739717716584732548%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D9057%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D151077711401
Just one thing to watch out for with those SCR dimmer units: they may not be great when it comes to generating radio frequency interference. It's hard to tell from the details on the ebay pages whether they are RFI safe or not. Unless they are identified as zero-crossing they probably aren't. Without zero-crossing circuitry, these units can generate substantial RFI. You can "rule of thumb" check by bringing an AM radio near them when they are dimming by say 50%. The buzzing sound is RFI. No buzzing means you've got the good kit.
/J
I am not planning on having any more kids ;D
Apart from interruption of my listening to the Archers on LW what are the other problems JD?
Your audio systems might buzz a little more than usual but the 'nads are safe, CH. ;)
/J
Just found these for anyone who can't find a local electrical retailer or has access to Charlie Shiels or not happy taking apart argos kettles, not cheap but 2.75W
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-2750Watt-230V-Kettle-Bain-Marie-Heating-Element-Kettle-Connector-/310759398910?pt=UK_Homes_Garden_Kitchen_Kettles&hash=item485ab41dfe
I snipped the little thermal cutout and cleaned the elements up with a citric acid bath and attack with a toothbrush and they're keeping a rolling boil perfectly now.
I also fixed the leaking by slightly shortening the 3 screws that hole the whole lot together with a hobby drill.
I reckon that they were leaking because the walls of a keg are slightly thinner than the wall of the kettle they're designed for.
All tested and running like clockwork, time for a cup of tea. Overkill?
(http://i.imgur.com/Ab1FbjC.jpg)
Very posh teabag
Lidl's finest caramel tea ;D
Earthed?
umm.. sure...
Umm
Ya lying bugger ;)
Post a pic, you will electrocute yourself :(
they are now!
fiddly job, trying to cleanly cut a passage for the earth wire, but easy out.
(http://i.imgur.com/B0AEYHh.jpg)
I know but we can all sleep better knowing you are earthed :)
First time I've seen a ball valve fitted "upside-down"
Any particular reason?
Usually thats the point it bites tight :), mine points straight up closed.
There was a reason for it, and a very good one. But I can't remember it. It was just one of those things that was decided while building.
Probably what CH said. It rings a bell, but a cloudy muffled bell...
saw this and thought of you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDf2nhfxVzg&list=UUJ0-OtVpF0wOKEqT2Z1HEtA
Umm we have to earth these ? :-[
probably not, but lets keep CH happy that we're safe and secure and not going to electrocute ourselves while brewing.
It's east to do anyway. Takes only about 15 minutes per element to do it properly :)
That video is great btw ;D
Where are people getting their leads, have my 2 kettles butchered and ready to go but no leads
mine are off old computers
Quote from: LordEoin on March 23, 2014, 03:33:03 PM
mine are off old computers
???
You need proper kettle leads to stop them melting as far as I know
I got mine is a small hardware shop on Mary Street for a fiver each
so I've heard, but providd you have the right fuse in the thing I don't see any problem.
You're not going to melt a mains lead when working off the mains.
Look at the leads you pulled off those argos kettles, they're hardly heavy duty.
I also have a slightly melted socket alright, but that's not the lead's fault.
Surely that'd be the plug, not the lead
Quote from: delzep on March 23, 2014, 04:44:11 PM
You need proper kettle leads to stop them melting as far as I know
Almost true. Melting leads is not the problem but just a step on the way to the real problem.
Firstly, the word "lead" means the cable and plug. The plug is the means by which the cable is connected to the element and represents the last inch or less. Both cable and plug are equally affected by the conditions that apply when talking about "kettle" leads or "computer" leads.
Kettle leads are electrically the same as computer leads. Physically, they differ in that they have a little slot on one side that matches up with a little projection on the kettle socket. This slot is there to prevent computer type leads from being used where kettle type leads are required. Materially, they are very different.
First thing to know is that the flow of electrical current generates heat. If you use a computer lead and a kettle lead that are rated to carry the same current, then both these leads will be able to easily deal with THAT heat.
If both kettle leads and computer leads can carry the same current so why are they different? The issue here is not so much heat as temperature. Kettle leads are made of a material that can tolerate high temperatures whereas computer leads are not so hi-spec. Why is this important?
Computers and their like, will typically not produce such concentrated heat as a kettle. The current they consume is used to do other work. This work takes energy and leaves a lot less energy that can produce heat. Any heat that is generated will not be generated that close to the lead and will typically be dealt with using some sort of cooling system. The result is that with computers, the cable will not be subject to that much heat over an above that generated by the passage of current alone.
Kettle elements are designed to use all the electrical energy in producing heat. This means the bit of the elements touching the water reaches 100
oC. The inner core of the element will be hotter again. The lead will be connected to the inner core and will be very close by. Significant heat will be conducted along the element to the lead. The lead will therefore be subject to more heat that that caused by the passage of current alone. Over the course of a typical kettle boil, in a normal kitchen environment, the leads will not be stressed too much and both types of leads will likely work fine. If, however, the lead can't cool itself, because the kettle is used too much and/or because the air around it is too hot, the lead will be stressed. In this scenario, a computer lead will soften and may even start to melt. Melting would be a problem in itself because it can lead to a short. A short is dangerous but will often be protected by your circuit breakers. Melting plastics, however, give off volatile gases and these can ignite. And this ignition will not cause a breaker to trip until the flames start to carbonise the case around it. At this point, the fire could easily be beyond control and your breakers tripping won't help you.
In a brewing scenario, we boil for an hour or more. This means the kettle element is being used for more that the typical 5 minutes it take to make a cuppa. Even kettle leads will be used beyond their expected use by this. This means that the risk of a problem is always higher. If you brew outside, you'll probably get away with it because the cooling of the ambient air will keep everything within tolerances. Even if you don't get away with it, the damage an outside fire can do will likely be contained. Indoors, I'm strongly recommending people use the proper leads. I can be wrong about this a million times and there will be no significant consequence. If you use the wrong leads, you can't even afford to be wrong once.
The proper leads are not that dear. Use the proper leads.
/J
rightio. I'll bow to witchcraft and magnets. better safe than sorry.
The confusion is between a C13 computer connector and a C15 kettle connector, the C15 is rated for 120c while the computer type C13 is only rated at 70c . The C 15 has a slot removed as JD has said already. Take a look at the link below.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320
There are charts explaining the differences in the appliance coupler standard sheets
I imagine Charlie Shiels must sell these along with most electrical wholesalers
Ok, so it's all down to how hot the kettle end connector can safely get. Cool cool. will be replaced by next use :)
I just checked a random but standard computer cable.
The Cable is made up of 3 x .75mm sq
Googling tells me .75mm is good for 6A
Note also that the plugs on these are usually stamped with 5A and use 5A Fuses.
While we CAN shove in 13A, this is dangerous
Pop into Maplin...
IEC C15 10A Rating...
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-10a-hot-condition-euro-line-socket-n08kc
Rough Service mains plug... (Oh all right, Giggity)
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/13a-rough-service-mains-plug-black-nh65v
1mmsq can handle 10A
http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/electrical-cable/flexible_cable/Tower-Flex-Rubber-3-Core-DR103L25-Black-1mm-x-25m-9290536
1.5mmsq can handle 16A
http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/electrical-cable/flexible_cable/-colourderived%3Eblack/Tower-Flex-3-Core-D153BLL25-Black-1-5mm-x-25m-9290532
The Math is easy if you look at these numbers...
2200W / 220v = 10A
Or if you're lazy...
http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/tools/volts-watts-amps-converter
Useful explanation of stuff here...
http://kevinboone.net/cableselection_web.html
Wow, I've gone overboard so with my new 2.0mm sq wiring. Ah well... to be sure, to be sure! ;D
I bought a kettle lead in an electrical shop and it has a 13 amp plug, .75mm lead, 10amp C13 (no notch) connector.