Any mixed gas users out there? I'm currently all CO2 but I spotted a mixed gas reg on ebay and got it cheap, so I'm thinking of adding that to my setup now.
Any hints or tips for the new user? Which mix of gas would be best for the home brewer? I usually do pale ales, stouts, reds and the occasional alt or bock, so I'm looking for a jack of all trades type setup.
Should I look into using a stout tap or will my existing flow control taps be ok?
Which pressure should I server at with mixed gas?
Any info greatly appreciated!
Stout is dispensed on 25% CO2 & 75% Nitogen.
Lagers and ales tend to be 50/50. You can use stout gas on lager but not the other way round!
As people point out empty cylinders (probably out of test date) are available but the difficulty is getting them filled. One or two of the mobile bar rental companies MAY refill them. Give them a ring and see.
As I have mentioned in the A-Z equipment wiki you can always go legit ( Shock Horror )
See here: http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/wiki/doku.php?id=storage_equipment
A bottle of 25/75 from BOC will cost about €40 for the fill and about €75 per year rental ( exact figures are in the wiki )
You will pay about that for a dodgy fill and so why not spend a €1-50 a week and be safe in the knowledge that you are legit!!
Lets face it, thats less than buying one bottle of stout in a shop a week!!
Mettatron is actually up in newry anyway - I believe BOC are actually a bit easier to deal with up there.
I remember a guy in belfast on beoir said he had no probs setting up an acc and it didnt cost the earth.
QuoteMettatron is actually up in newry anyway - I believe BOC are actually a bit easier to deal with up there.
I remember a guy in belfast on beoir said he had no probs setting up an acc and it didnt cost the earth.
If you follow the link and read it, BOC in Ballymun have no probs whatsoever in openning a private account!!
The notion that BOC were "Elitest, only dealt with registered company and the like" emanated from th UK in the "Good Old Days" Thet are now more than happy to money from anyone
Hi
Dont know how I missed this first time around.
Yeah, Im a mixed gas user(sounds like an addiction :D)
I've been serving 'nitro stout' for about two years.
The system I have uses 70/30 mixed gas with a pre-set regulator and a pub style stout tap.
I get my gas refilled about every 3-4 months from a bar hire company for approx.€40 a tank.
The only tip I could give would be to not prime your keg! this is very important. if you do you'll end up with about 6inches of foamy head.
Here's a coulpe of pics:
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s396/DamianFahy/IMG_0407_zps65599efc.jpg)
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s396/DamianFahy/IMG_0410_zps2ae0e96f.jpg)
That's the effect I'm looking for right there. Stout gas would do the job. Need to get a stout tap, where'd you get yours Damo? I tried emailing Boc about a bottle of sure mix and was told take a hike. Walking in may be better though. Tried emailing the brew crew too, got a reply but said I was from Newry and no word since. Anyone use anyone else?
Thats cool Damo - where did ya get the reg?
hey Metatron - I threw this link up in the for sale section the other day :
http://touch.adverts.ie/other-home-garden/beer-gas/2556807/
its not me - I don't know the dude or anything - never dealt with him - just found the ad when browsing adverts
what caught my eye was in his comments he mentioned he could source mixed gas
might be worth contacting him ??
Just got a tank of suremix 25 from him, still sealed. He only has 3 bottles and no refill options but it'll do for a while. Looking forward to a creamy coconut stout!
cool!
what did he charge you for it? how did you get it ? collection ?
I cant access
adverts in work so can't remember where he is situated
* edit - pic is of boot of your car right ? collection so !!!
€65 for the bottle. Collected it in Bray at lunchtime. Should get a fair few kegs out of it so won't have to get a refill for a while. Damo, what pressure do you serve at? When you say don't prime your keg do you mean not to force carb it first, just fill the keg and serve?
Sorry Lads
again I dont know how I missed replies..
Jimmy, I Picked up the reg from a bar man I know ;)
Tube
yep, the head stays till the last drop. very much like you know what
Mettatron
I've never had to do anything with my reg. I'm presumming its sealed. I cant see any way to adjust serving pressure.
and to be honest I dont want to go messin with it.
When I say dont prime!, thats exactly what I mean
I've had a couple of bad experiences that nearly put me off nitro stout till I figured out what was wrong.
I usually just purge out any O2 with mixed gas and then seal up keg as normal with mixed gas.
I would then put the keg to cold condition for a couple of weeks or so before I'd go near it.
Since ive started doing this I've not had a problem ;)
Sorry for being so slow with reply, any questions just fire away!!!
Damo, where did you get the stout tap? They seem fairly hard to come by unless you order them from the US.
Also, how does the tap perform when you use straight CO2 to serve?
Looking to get my hands on a stout tap, and maybe look to get mixed gas reg and tank down the line?
Hi Metatron,
Was wondering with the bottle you bought was it actually a bog standard no name bottle? Asking to confirm that it is not a bottle liberated from one, of the breweries via a pub? Also.if you would not mind paying a picture of the valve please as I have a regulator that I would like to confirm it would fit before I try buy a bottle.
Declan
Quote€65 for the bottle. Collected it in Bray at lunchtime. Should get a fair few kegs out of it so won't have to get a refill for a while. Damo, what pressure do you serve at? When you say don't prime your keg do you mean not to force carb it first, just fill the keg and serve?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CORNELIUS-TYPE-CHROME-TAP-/321062310524?pt=Home_Brew&hash=item4ac0ce127c&_uhb=1 i got one of these for a stout tap, it came with the restrictor plate etc but i did ask before i ordered. Tube also got one that didnt include one so if ordering one ask the seller first. They are a great tap at that price.
Hi Slayerking
I got that tap from a friendly barman. It was 1 of 3,
I managed to secure when collecting stuff for my bar.
I gave 1 to chris D'pimp and im keeping the other as a spare.
The bottle is a BOC mixed gas bottle, I also have a BOC mixed gas regulator. I got the same tap Rukkus linked above, also has the restrictor, but I did ask for that also. I picked up another tap off ebay that is a Blue Moon tap. Haven't got it yet but it looks the same as the one above but probably doesn't have a restrictor plate. But it was £10 so not complaining.
I have a mixed gas set like Damo , i can vouch that stout/ cream ale does come out very good using mixed gas , I have both a lager mix and stout mix cylinders.
I have 2 reg's , i orignally purchase a dual reg from US but cylinder fitting was off (managed to get a uk fitting and now use it). I procured another one like what damo has with a set serving rate. I think there is a way to adjust this but ye need a special allen key for it. I think they are set at about 40 psi for serving
I would say that it isnt that difficult to get a relatively carbonated pint using the lager mix which is 50:50, only thing being when you get near the bottom of the keg you may have a lot of gas in your keg that you would much prefer to hold on to in your cylinder for the next keg considering its price suppose it could be used to push cleaning fluid through your taps or something by lining up with a keg full of water and oxy. I havent really though of an efficient use for it
The Bar co. in Galway supply at 40 a pop ,I was never charged any rental just refill.
Ebay.co.uk is a great place for getting taps etc. I am not sure here whether the breweries take back some of the taps once a pub shuts which is why ye dont see a great second hand market in them. They are easy to take apart and thoroughly clean once ye get them.
The only real difference between a stout tap and a normal tap is the restrictor plate
Poured my first pint of coconut stout off the new setup last night. A thing of beauty. 8-)
Nice one, great taps for the price aren't they. Mine is pouring an english mild at the moment but with the plate removed :D
How do you go about carbonation? Do you carbonate using pure co2 or mixed gas?
That is a really cracking head!
If it tastes half as good as it looks then it should be brilliant!
QuoteHow do you go about carbonation? Do you carbonate using pure co2 or mixed gas?
I usually just force carb with the mixed gas, just leave it rigged up in the fridge for a week at full tilt 50 psi or so usually does it , reduce to 30 psi for serving
I had started force carbing this keg but knocked it off and released the pressure after the lads said not to prime it. Takes a minute or two to settle but not unlike a guinness pour. I don't change the pressure, its "fixed". Be interesting to see how an uncarbed one serves.
Sorry to kick this off again, but just to answer the last poster..If you pour straight at 35psi from a keg that has just come from your fermenter, you'll get nothing but black water, sorry, the first half pint there is a tiny head(must be some residue Co2 from ferementation) and after that it just pours black......
For mixed gas to"Work", you must have a carbonated Brew, and carbonated to the correct level...
I put my first "Nitro stout" at 5psi for 3 days @6c and ended up with this..Not too bad, but the head is a little on the low side >:( (that's carbing with pure CO2, why waste the Nitro gas)
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv152/magnethead123/Stout_zps7003bdcf.jpg)
I've now got the stout at 10psi for a couple of days, and I imagine when I take it off, it'll give a better head. This "white head" can be performed on any beer..It's the creamer disk doing the creaming, not imaginery nitrogen.
So much for "Nitrogenation" :P I don't think it exists for the homebrewer. I'm beginning to believe these lads and their debate
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/great-nitrogen-bubble-debate-394874/
I started a thread on Beoir before I relised that nobody seems to be using it anymore
http://www.beoir.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9596
I'm hoping to get into Nitrogenation soon(as I don't think breweries spend 50,000 euro on these machines for the good of their health), I have got a pump and will start a different thread as soon as I have something to report.
Please note, even though I tried to focus as best as I could with my phone, the above picture looks more perfect then real life...There are lot's of tiny bubbles present and it is sure as hell, not the whipped cream, you can spead on your apple tart that you get off the head of that black pint we all know about :'( and the head above also doesn't have the same staying power, it's pretty much gone bar a small skim of sudds at the end. Don't let that pic fool you ;p
One hint that there is no Nitrogen is the fact that the head settles out really fast....(i haven't timed it yet (30 seconds at a guess), will do after the next shot)
Keep us informed as this will be part of my setup at a later date. Cathalbrua has also being working on nitro,meeting him today so will check with him too. :)
;D remember, mine was carbed to a very low level ;)
What the charts were telling me would be around 1.8 Volumes..which I thought would be the correct level to get the perfect head, Damo leaves his brew hooked up to mixed gas for 2 weeks and Carbs that way which is cool if that works for him.
Maybe I have my flow control a little tight, not letting a it see the full pressure at the creamer...anyway, it's VERY much a work in progress at this stage :o
I didn't force carb my stout with co2, just left it on the mixed gas for about 2 days before serving. Another pic, pouring steps... Keeps about a 1/2 cm head all the way down.
Fair play Metattron, those pouring steps look great, that sure is one creamy looking pint.
Can you tell us at what pressure and temperature you left the Cocunut stout at for those 2 days? and did you use an airstone to bubble the gas through? I can't see there been a huge amount of gas absorption in just 2 days unless you had it at really high pressure and a very low temp but obviously it worked :)
Also do you think there's anything in that recipe that would help with head retention, like a good amount of wheat?
ok, I gave the Keg another shot, 10psi @6c for another 4days..It definately helped the head..and I'm fairly happy with it, might give it just a bit more co2 but the pouring time and head retention are all rightish..the head looks good at the start, but falls to the 15minute level within 3-4min or first few gulps..and then maintains that most of the way down, like a guiness with a wet head......This is still 100% co2, I haven't exposed it to mixed gas except for the brief hook up at pouring.....Looks like Nitrogenation might be worth getting into
Again, just to note, the pictures can't convey the look of the head properly(focus or too much flash, is just knitting all those bubbles together and making it look creamier than it is, maybe the camera can't handle the whiteness of it?).....
(http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv152/magnethead123/Stout_Pint_Pour_zps741807ce.jpg)
edit: I just noticed that the 15minute mark in this set is like my first picture above, but this time it had a proper head at the start! the head in the above post never really changed from start to finish.
My mixed gas reg is fixed so not sure what the pressure is, pretty high anyway. I put the gas on the keg and put it in the fridge at 8C for the 2 days. All gone now, but I've put a Red Ale on the mixed gas last night so I'll see how it turns out this weekend. I'll check the recipe tonight too, I know I added extra heading malts to it as it had the coconut in it and the oils would have left it with little or no head otherwise. That may be why it takes so long to settle as well. But it was worth the wait!
Cornelius nitrogen bar machine. 8-)
For the stout my grain bill was:
3.00 kg Pale Malt UK (5.9 EBC) 63.8 %
0.50 kg Oats, Malted (3.9 EBC) 10.6 %
0.40 kg Crystal, Medium (100.0 EBC) 8.5 %
0.20 kg Amber Malt (60.0 EBC) 4.3 %
0.20 kg Chocolate Malt (1060.0 EBC) 4.3 %
0.20 kg Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) 4.3 %
0.10 kg Roasted Barley (1300.0 EBC) 2.2 %
0.10 kg Black (1280.0 EBC) 2.1 %
That's quite a selection, using up the dregs from the store cupboard. The mash was at 70C for 45 minutes.
If your looking to buy a nitrogenerator.
http://www.dalconitrogensystems.com/?gclid=CJusybzFvbYCFYFF2wod01cAcw
Guys just reading this so there seems to be 2 routes that will result in the same thing?
1) carbonate with Co2 and serve under mixed gas
2) just carbonate with mixed gas.
Is that a fair summation?
I ask as I have the mixed gas, a controllable mixed gas reg and a communion next week end!
Sent from my mediocre phone and an average phone app
I've done a couple with just the mixed gas and it give a very smooth pint with a nice white cap. No fizz to the beer at all when you are drinking it. If that's what you're looking for then I can recommend that route. I think someone said not to force carb earlier in the thread, but my first keg on mixed was partially carbed and poured fine. It was on 30psi for 1 day just at room temp so may not have been too carbed to begin with.
I've just very gently forced carbed and poured with Nitro through the creamer tap, and the results are very good, Mcgrath seemed to like it too. :P
I'm leaning toward the american debate on this posted earlier, I think for the Homebrewer, Nitrogenation is way way out of his ability (50,000 euro for some of these machines)....
To get Nitrogen into beer is very difficult.
I think when Beer is hooked up to Nitro gas and left for a few days, It's just absorbing the partial pressure of CO2 in Nitro gas, same as force carbing at low pressure.
But if you have loads of Beer Nitro gas on hand, it's simpler to just hook it up and forget. I think a few experiments to compare are in order :)
I've had a red ale on for a while now and did not force carb it either, just left it on the mixed gas for about a week in the fridge. Pours with a very fine creamy head and forms a nice cap that says till the end of the pint. I's another full bodied beer, only mashed for 45 mins. The stout was also full bodied and poured just about as creamy as it looked. My gas is suremix 25 - Guinness gas. What mix is yours magnethead?
BTW - that guy that was selling kegs on done deal ( http://nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,2364.0.html ) had a bunch of large nitrogen tanks too, if that of any use to anyone. I never checked if they were full - too big for my use, but it might be worth asking him as he was willing to let them go for whatever he could get for them.