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General Discussions => Brewing Communities => South Dublin Brewers => Topic started by: Bubbles on June 28, 2013, 01:49:45 PM

Title: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Bubbles on June 28, 2013, 01:49:45 PM
Yes, I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself here, but what would people think about using the barrel for a second time?

Obviously, the whiskey character will have faded a little on the second use, but there will still be plenty of oak and whiskey flavour to be drawn out of the barrel.

How about a robust porter or a nice Scotch ale?

(I was going to suggest souring the barrel and putting something Belgian in there, but I don't know how many takers we'd get..)

Anyone up for it, at least in principle?
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on June 28, 2013, 11:42:15 PM
Yes I would be interest in using the barrel to brew a second batch over the winter. A scotch ale would be nice. Not sure whether we could get away with a lower alcohol content. Would like to be able to get something out of it that is not 10% so that it can be drank. This is not to mention that brewing a 10% beer requires more effort to brew to begin with.

Shanna
Quote from: Bubbles on June 28, 2013, 01:49:45 PM
Yes, I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself here, but what would people think about using the barrel for a second time?

Obviously, the whiskey character will have faded a little on the second use, but there will still be plenty of oak and whiskey flavour to be drawn out of the barrel.

How about a robust porter or a nice Scotch ale?

(I was going to suggest souring the barrel and putting something Belgian in there, but I don't know how many takers we'd get..)

Anyone up for it, at least in principle?
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Bubbles on June 29, 2013, 03:56:48 PM
Quote from: Shanna on June 28, 2013, 11:42:15 PM
Yes I would be interest in using the barrel to brew a second batch over the winter. A scotch ale would be nice. Not sure whether we could get away with a lower alcohol content. Would like to be able to get something out of it that is not 10% so that it can be drank. This is not to mention that brewing a 10% beer requires more effort to brew to begin with.

Cool.

I reckon as long as we're around 8% we'd be fine. There's lots of commercial barrel-aged beers around that have a similar strength. I hear what you're saying though - I don't think I want to brew another 10%-er this year. Or next year....  ;)
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Bubbles on June 29, 2013, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on June 29, 2013, 01:34:37 PM
We intend on using our's a second time lads, it'd be a waste not to. But a barley wine or a DIPA.

Good to hear, I think it would be a shame to turn it into a planter just yet.. :)

I like the idea of a barleywine, but maybe an English version of the style. I can't see the whiskey flavours working with citrussy American hops. In fact I such a beer recently and really didn't think those flavours worked well together.   :P
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on September 29, 2013, 09:48:59 AM
How long could you wait between draining what is there and refilling it? Also what is the impact of the c accumulated yeast from the RIS going to have on any other beer?

Shanna

Quote from: Il Tubo on June 29, 2013, 10:17:12 PM
I didn't think they would either until I had Dr Jacob's DIPA , which was their second fill of the barrel. Was seriously good stuff.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Eoin on September 29, 2013, 09:58:48 AM
Once you go sour you can't go back...

Sent using a complex system of semaphore and ninjas.

Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Bubbles on October 03, 2013, 02:10:01 PM
Alright lads, Shanna has done great work canvassing opinions on the PM over the last few days, but I thought I would put it out in the forum for new members, or in case other Dublin or Wicklow members are interested and might not have a barrel that's more local to them.

If you're interested, even in principle, just put your name below along with your beer style preference. Don't be worried about all the stout from the 2013 fill that you're going to have to drink. Remember the beer from the second fill will only be ready around 2015!

Cheers.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Bubbles on October 03, 2013, 02:12:12 PM
List of potential contributors (with beer style in order of preference)

1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on October 03, 2013, 08:12:48 PM
Quote from: Bubbles on October 03, 2013, 02:12:12 PM
List of potential contributors (with beer style in order of preference)

1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna (1. Baltic Porter 2. Strong Stout 3. Belgian dubblel)
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: John_C on October 03, 2013, 08:18:46 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna (1. Baltic Porter 2. Strong Stout 3. Belgian dubblel)
3. JohnC
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 05, 2014, 08:33:41 PM
Any other takers on this?. Hoping to empty the barrel soon & want to get a refill done.

Shanna

Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shane Phelan on March 05, 2014, 08:57:50 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna (1. Baltic Porter 2. Strong Stout 3. Belgian dubblel)
3. JohnC
4. Tube, if you'll have me (anything except BJCP cats 16 and 18)
5. Shiny (Something dark)
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 05, 2014, 09:00:09 PM
Quote from: Tube on March 05, 2014, 08:43:53 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna (1. Baltic Porter 2. Strong Stout 3. Belgian dubblel)
3. JohnC
4. Tube, if you'll have me (anything except BJCP cats 16 and 18)

Hi Tube

welcome all contributions, giving first refusal to original contributors but given both Shiny and i did double batches there should not be a problem :)

Thanks

shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: beerfly on March 05, 2014, 09:36:29 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna (1. Baltic Porter 2. Strong Stout 3. Belgian dubblel)
3. JohnC
4. Tube, if you'll have me (anything except BJCP cats 16 and 18)
5. Shiny (Something dark)
6. Beerfly (something dark or malty)

definatly should be something dark or malty as there will be a bit of whiskey left in it.
also dont mind dropping of the list if you get more local intrest since transport is more akward for me
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Ciderhead on March 05, 2014, 09:40:31 PM
Thanks chaps but with a further 10 gals for Capital and a third barrel in Wicklow in train and a 4th planned I'm out, good luck with it and I'm sure you will hit your numbers.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 05, 2014, 09:49:04 PM
Quote from: CH on March 05, 2014, 09:40:31 PM
Thanks chaps but with a further 10 gals for Capital and a third barrel in Wicklow in train and a 4th planned I'm out, good luck with it and I'm sure you will hit your numbers.

No worries thanks for the confirmation. Still want you to show up when we drain the existing beer.

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: mcgrath on March 05, 2014, 10:02:02 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna (1. Baltic Porter 2. Strong Stout 3. Belgian dubblel)
3. JohnC
4. Tube, if you'll have me (anything except BJCP cats 16 and 18)
5. Shiny (Something dark)
6. Beerfly (something dark or malty)
7. McGrath I'm in. Let me think about what..
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: cno1 on March 05, 2014, 10:06:33 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna (1. Baltic Porter 2. Strong Stout 3. Belgian dubblel)
3. JohnC
4. Tube, if you'll have me (anything except BJCP cats 16 and 18)
5. Shiny (Something dark)
6. Beerfly (something dark or malty)
7. McGrath I'm in. Let me think about what..
8. Cathal
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Rossa on March 05, 2014, 11:05:42 PM
Quote from: mcgrath on March 05, 2014, 10:02:02 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna (1. Baltic Porter 2. Strong Stout 3. Belgian dubblel)
3. JohnC
4. Tube, if you'll have me (anything except BJCP cats 16 and 18)
5. Shiny (Something dark)
6. Beerfly (something dark or malty)
7. McGrath I'm in. Let me think about what..
8. Rossa English barley wine.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 05, 2014, 11:11:52 PM
Quote from: Rossa on March 05, 2014, 11:05:42 PM
Quote from: mcgrath on March 05, 2014, 10:02:02 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna (1. Baltic Porter 2. Strong Stout 3. Belgian dubblel)
3. JohnC
4. Tube, if you'll have me (anything except BJCP cats 16 and 18)
5. Shiny (Something dark)
6. Beerfly (something dark or malty)
7. McGrath I'm in. Let me think about what..
8. Cathal
9. Rossa English barley wine.

Added back in Cathal who was removed in error.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Brewtus on March 07, 2014, 01:53:12 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna (1. Baltic Porter 2. Strong Stout 3. Belgian dubblel)
3. JohnC
4. Tube, if you'll have me (anything except BJCP cats 16 and 18)
5. Shiny (Something dark)
6. Beerfly (something dark or malty)
7. McGrath I'm in. Let me think about what..
8. Cathal
9. Rossa English barley wine.
10. Brewtus (Prefer English Old Ale or barleywine but anything considered)
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Ciderhead on March 07, 2014, 04:39:01 PM
Knew you would :)
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 07, 2014, 07:57:15 PM
in the interest of fairness could I ask people to indicate some kind of specific type of beer.

Also if and when it comes to the designing a recipe would people be interested in doing a group buy on the hops, yeast, speciality grain etc. I would volunteer to the order and front up. My suggestion would be stuff could be collected at a South Dublin meet where money's owed could be paid.

let me know if this sounds like a plan. I was thinking if we got organised we could have stuff available for April meet, do the brew in May and fill sometime in June.

Shanna
Title: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: cno1 on March 08, 2014, 03:33:58 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna (1. Baltic Porter 2. Strong Stout 3. Belgian dubblel)
3. JohnC
4. Tube, if you'll have me (anything except BJCP cats 16 and 18)
5. Shiny (Something dark)
6. Beerfly (something dark or malty)
7. McGrath I'm in. Let me think about what..
8. Cathal (English Barley Wine)
9. Rossa English barley wine.
10. Brewtus (Prefer English Old Ale or barleywine but anything considered)

I think a group buy of the ingredients makes a lot of sense too. Would definitely be the best way to go in terms of cost efficiency and consistancy.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shane Phelan on March 08, 2014, 04:20:36 PM
I don't mind doing up the yeast for anyone that doesn't want to by a vial.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 08, 2014, 08:18:54 PM
Thanks Shiny would be happy to take you up on that offer. If and when we empty the existing barrel we might have a good chat about the next one.

Beginning to look like a barley wine will win out by majority. I wonder what effect the residue of the oak, existing beer and whisky will have on the next beer?

Shanna
Title: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Ciderhead on March 08, 2014, 08:34:59 PM
Little or none if it's gently washed out there may be 3-5l soaked into the timber, over 220l that's 2% or less
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 08, 2014, 08:39:49 PM
Quote from: CH on March 08, 2014, 08:34:59 PM
Little or none if it's gently washed out there may be 3-5l soaked into the timber, over 220l that's 2% or less

interesting as I would have thought the darkness from the ris would really darken the beer. Getting excited about the prospect of the next barrel recipe.

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Ciderhead on March 08, 2014, 08:43:13 PM
Unless you are doing a light lager


Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 08, 2014, 08:52:57 PM
Quote from: CH on March 08, 2014, 08:43:13 PM
Unless you are doing a light lager

No experience of making larger but from doing iris red I know a little  dark colour goes a hell of a long way.

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shane Phelan on March 08, 2014, 08:55:06 PM
Quote from: Shanna on March 08, 2014, 08:18:54 PM
Thanks Shiny would be happy to take you up on that offer. If and when we empty the existing barrel we might have a good chat about the next one.

Beginning to look like a barley wine will win out by majority. I wonder what effect the residue of the oak, existing beer and whisky will have on the next beer?

Shanna

If we go down the barley wine route we are definitely going to have to utilise DME/LME as part of the recipe. Say, using grain to get to 8 or 9% and the extract to get the rest of the way?
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 08, 2014, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: shiny on March 08, 2014, 08:55:06 PM
Quote from: Shanna on March 08, 2014, 08:18:54 PM
Thanks Shiny would be happy to take you up on that offer. If and when we empty the existing barrel we might have a good chat about the next one.

Beginning to look like a barley wine will win out by majority. I wonder what effect the residue of the oak, existing beer and whisky will have on the next beer?

Shanna

If we go down the barley wine route we are definitely going to have to utilise DME/LME as part of the recipe. Say, using grain to get to 8 or 9% and the extract to get the rest of the way?
is that because people won't have a big enough mash tun to get over 9%?

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shane Phelan on March 08, 2014, 09:09:16 PM
Yeah pretty much.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 08, 2014, 09:17:08 PM
Quote from: shiny on March 08, 2014, 09:09:16 PM
Yeah pretty much.

About now I am thinking I hope my 50 ltr mash tun is big enough. If remember the RIM recipe had 11.25kg of grains. I would hope any recipe would not be much bigger than this.

Could I ask others who have not done so to please express a definite style preference please.

Thanks

Shanna

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 09, 2014, 12:18:11 AM
Quote from: Cathal on March 08, 2014, 03:33:58 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna - English barleywine
3. JohnC
4. Tube, if you'll have me - English barleywine
5. Shiny (Something dark)
6. Beerfly (something dark or malty)
7. McGrath I'm in. Let me think about what..
8. Cathal (English Barley Wine)
9. Rossa English barley wine.
10. Brewtus (Prefer English Old Ale or barleywine but anything considered)

Updated the list to show Tubes and my preference for EBW.

Shanna
I think a group buy of the ingredients makes a lot of sense too. Would definitely be the best way to go in terms of cost efficiency and consistancy.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shane Phelan on March 09, 2014, 11:27:25 AM
Barley wine looks to have clinched it!
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: John_C on March 09, 2014, 11:50:11 AM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna - English barleywine
3. JohnC - English barleywine
4. Tube, if you'll have me - English barleywine
5. Shiny (Something dark)
6. Beerfly (something dark or malty)
7. McGrath I'm in. Let me think about what..
8. Cathal (English Barley Wine)
9. Rossa English barley wine.
10. Brewtus (Prefer English Old Ale or barleywine but anything considered)
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 09, 2014, 12:26:54 PM
Hi there

Any of our medal winning brewers (Tube, Bubbles,  Brewtus,  Rossa) want to put up a barley wine for consideration? Also it might be worthwhile people indicating what size batch they can/will contribute?

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Bubbles on March 09, 2014, 12:56:50 PM
I'm well up for a barleywine that's on the darker/maltier side of things. Would love to get a bit of amber malt in there to accentuate the maltiness and maybe a touch of roasted barley for nice colour. Maris otter and plenty of crystal and bob's your uncle. Would be a great idea to load it with plenty of hops, as we won't have the antiseptic properties of the cask-strength whiskey this time around. Lots of Fuggles and EKG,  including mid-boil addition. 90 min boil for a bit of melanoidin formation.

Been looking at the "old ale" style myself recently so was delighted to see Brewtus suggest it. A lot of recipes for old ale seem to have treacle involved. Sounds really nice, and nothing to stop us adding a dab of treacle to our barleywine.

Or how about an "imperial irish red"??

Just random thoughts lads, to get a bit of discussion going. Would be great to make this a real collaborative beer, with everyone contributing a feature to the recipe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 09, 2014, 01:34:08 PM
Hi Conor et al,

All sound like good suggestions. Was not attempting to be proscriptive about the style or the recipe just wanted to try and avoid open ended discussion where nothing definite gets agreed. Was thinking about when we take out the existing beer will there be sufficient left behind to allow the barrel to be kept wet. Would be interested to hear from Capital, Liffey, Garden County Brewers etc what their experience on this aspect of the barrel was. Now that I know this time around that I need to rotate the barrel every so often I want to be sure that the barrel does not dry out.

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 09, 2014, 01:43:27 PM
Quote from: Tube on March 09, 2014, 01:38:10 PM
You can fill the barrel to the top with water, and then add citric acid and sodium metabisulphite. This is what we did. That mixture releases sulphur.
Hi Tube,

Is the Sodium Metabisulphite available in a pharmacist? Out of curiosity how much of each would you need to add for a 220lit barrel?

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Ciderhead on March 09, 2014, 01:44:11 PM
You are adding another process and introducing ingredients not normally present in beer with the potential for absorption into the barrel, we are going to brew and empty/refill on the same day after a gentle washout.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Bubbles on March 09, 2014, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: Shanna on March 09, 2014, 01:34:08 PMAll sound like good suggestions. Was not attempting to be proscriptive about the style or the recipe just wanted to try and avoid open ended discussion where nothing definite gets agreed.

You're right of course dude. Best to start nailing things down as early as possible. But at this early stag, let's get everyone's ideas on our approach before we start formulating recipes; hoppy/non-hoppy, dark/light etc.
  Was thinking about when we take out the existing beer will there be sufficient left behind to allow the barrel to be kept wept. Would be interested to hear from Capital, Liffey, Garden County Brewers etc what their experience on this aspect of the barrel was. Now that I know this time around that I need to rotate the barrel every so often I want to be sure that the barrel does not dry out.
[/quote]

We'll make sure we fill the barrel very shortly after we drain it. But would be great to leave a few litres in there alright. I'm sure everyone who's contributed to the current brew will not object to leaving a tiny percentage in there. (We also need to discuss that... I put 26l in, but I'm happy enough to get just a corny back out of it..)

After draining, I'd like to scald the barrel with boiling water from your HLT and take all the remaining trub and RIP (that's Russian Imperial Porter, for the uninitiated...  ;) ). That way we can start off with a fresher barrel and not adulterate our new beer with an intense whiskey-flavoured porter. I think it makes sense that way.

Exciting times!! :)
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 09, 2014, 03:55:32 PM
Quote from: CH on March 09, 2014, 01:44:11 PM
You are adding another process and introducing ingredients not normally present in beer with the potential for absorption into the barrel, we are going to brew and empty/refill on the same day after a gentle washout.

CH dont think we will have this luxury of emptying and filling on the same day  due to the different personalities being involved. Not being an expert in how to manage barrels I think its interesting to hear the different approaches from every one. Whether it be the use of some chemical assistance or using a more traditional hot water approach.

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Bubbles on March 09, 2014, 04:15:56 PM
Just me 2c.......

Would be an advocate of the old boiling water method, rather than introducing extraneous chemicals into the process. Remember lads, we're ARTISAN......!  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 09, 2014, 04:27:45 PM
Quote from: Bubbles on March 09, 2014, 04:15:56 PM
Just me 2c.......

Would be an advocate of the old boiling water method, rather than introducing extraneous chemicals into the process. Remember lads, we're ARTISAN......!  ;) ;D
Its all chemistry though at the end of the day ;-) I suspect the length of time that the barrel lays empty may be the determining factor here as I would not like it to dry out out and damage the wood.

As for the artisan thing I am a little sceptical of it given that all my brewing stuff is stainless, I liberally use VWP & Starsan etc and ferment in plastic.

Either way I think this is a distraction when the more important thing it to be focusing on the what style to brew, what recipe will go in to it, when will we brew it and when can we ready to fill it.

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 09, 2014, 04:49:57 PM
Following on from Conor's suggestion about an Imperial Irish Red. This was one that I brewed previously where I basically doubled up on most of the ingredients. No treacle though I am afraid :)

Imperial Irish Red Ale
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 23.00 l
Boil Size: 33.04 l
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 27.04 l
Final Bottling Vol: 23.00 l

Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.1 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Total Water Needed: 46.44 l

Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients                               
Amt            Name                             Type    #    %/IBU
9.50 kg    Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC)          Grain    1    87.3 %
1.00 kg    Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC)              Grain    2    9.2 %
0.30 kg    Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (145.0 EBC)    Grain    3    2.8 %
0.08 kg    Roasted Barley (1367.0 EBC)              Grain    4    0.7 %

Mash Steps
Name    Description                         Step Temperature    Step Time
Mash In    Add 30.87 l of water at 74.0 C    65.6 C          75 min
Fly sparge with 15.56 l water at 75.6 C

Add water to achieve boil volume of 33.04 l
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.081 SG

Boil Ingredients
Amt            Name                                          Type    #    %/IBU
60.00 g    Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min                   Hop    5    30.1 IBUs
60.00 g    Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min                       Hop    6    16.6 IBUs
30.00 g    Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min    Hop    7    7.7 IBUs
2.0 pkg    Irish Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP004)                Yeast    8    -

Estimated Post Boil Vol: 27.04 l and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.103 SG
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Bubbles on March 09, 2014, 06:55:19 PM
Two fantastic recipes that I'd be be very tempted to try on their own. Love the Bramling X slant on Tubes 's recipe. What a great hop varietal... I also like the reliance on Notty. Dry yeast for me, all the way.. When you're looking for high atttenuation, I can't see the reasoning behind going for a liquid yeast when fantastic dry equivalents are available for a fraction of the price. Notty or US-05 for the win. If we were going Belgian or low-gravity then we'd obviously consider a liquid yeast... That's a huge amount of treacle though - the Zainasheff recipe for "Old Ale" has only half pound treacle in a 5 US gal recipe. Though I'm more than willing to go along a reipce from such an experienced brewer - I've never brewed with treacle before - I just like the sound of it...  O0

Shanna, I like that restrained level of Roasted barley in the recipe, though I can't understand the big amount of carapils in such a big beer. I like the simplicity of the recipe though...
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Brewtus on March 09, 2014, 07:19:45 PM
Probably the best choice as it will be easy enough for everyone to brew. Nottingham Danstar should do for yeast (but probably need 2 sachets) so no need to mess about building up the large starters of liquid yeast that would otherwise be required for a beer of this gravity. Also ferments around 20°C (basically room temperature with central heating on) so manageable for those without temperature control. Finally no overly fruity flavours (such as may occur with Belgians) that might clash with the whiskey notes.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Brewtus on March 09, 2014, 07:24:11 PM
Oops, sorry jumped into the thread way back there from my email link. See we've moved on a bit now. Was recommending the barleywine choice. However my remarks re ease of brewing are still valid i.e. just use dry yeast and ferment around room temperaure.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 09, 2014, 07:32:57 PM
Hi Conor

Showing my inexperience here I guess with the carapils. Liquid yeast or yeast starters I have found have produced better results than using dried variety of yeasts (or maybe it's just seems that way). I don't honestly expect my recipe to be selected and to be honest I posted it to further discussion and also get feedback (such as your comment on the carapils).

Restraint in the roasted barley comes from experience that Beer smiths colour calls can be a little less accurate than it would leave you to believe. Remember my "Maroon Irish Red Ale" had 100 grams of roasted barley.

Hoping to see something from yourselves,  Rossa and Brewtus soon.

For treacle at what point in the boil would you add it?



Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Bubbles on March 10, 2014, 06:25:52 PM
10 minutes for the treacle addition, just to sanitise it.

I've nothing against liquid yeast of course, but would rather the easier alternative of dried yeast for a beer like this, to make sure we hit the high cell count needed. I'd be going for at least two sachets of Notty for a barleywine, properly re-hydrated.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: David on March 10, 2014, 07:31:03 PM
Love to get in on this would probably only get 15 liters max from my kit 12-13 liters would be more likely allowing for trub. Would need some serious mediation to get away with double brew day.

1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna - English barleywine
3. JohnC - English barleywine
4. Tube, if you'll have me - English barleywine
5. Shiny (Something dark)
6. Beerfly (something dark or malty)
7. McGrath I'm in. Let me think about what..
8. Cathal (English Barley Wine)
9. Rossa English barley wine.
10. Brewtus (Prefer English Old Ale or barleywine but anything considered)
11. David barley wine 15 liters Max moe like 12- 13 liters
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: mcgrath on March 13, 2014, 07:32:11 PM
1. Bubbles (1. Very roasty imperial Stout; 2. Belgian dubbel; 3. English barleywine)
2. Shanna - English barleywine
3. JohnC - English barleywine
4. Tube, if you'll have me - English barleywine
5. Shiny (Something dark)
6. Beerfly (something dark or malty)
7. McGrath I'm in. Scotch ale or EBW
8. Cathal (English Barley Wine)
9. Rossa English barley wine.
10. Brewtus (Prefer English Old Ale or barleywine but anything considered)
11. David barley wine 15 liters Max moe like 12- 13 liters
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 15, 2014, 09:56:35 PM
Quote from: Tube on March 15, 2014, 09:07:39 AM
Lads I brewed this on Monday, as I didn't really want to be recommending a recipe I hadn't tried myself.

The main differences are:
- I made the mistake of thinking that tin of stuff in the press was treacle, when in fact it was golden syrup, of which I put 500g into the boil
- To compensate I took off 1.5 litres of wort and added 1kg of brown sugar to. I boiled this on the cooker for 10 minutes to reduce and caramelise it a bit further
- To lessen the risk of a blow off I kept the above out of the fermenter and didn't add until day 5 when the gravity had dropped to ~1.024 (from 1.110)
- I didn't have any extract so upped my malt bill to compensate. Not everyone will be able to handle this much grist.
- My BX are a bit weaker in AA than the original, so I upped the quantities.

I had a taste yesterday before adding the brown sugar solution and it tasted very good indeed. It should finish out around 13.5% according to Beersmith.

I will bottle in around a week and if anyone is interested in trying it I'll try to get some to you.


Recipe: 144 EBW
Style: English Barleywine

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 18.93 L     
Boil Size: 21.67 L
Estimated OG: 1.132
Estimated FG: 1.030
Estimated Color: 23.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 30.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU     
0.50 kg       Lyle's Golden Syrup (0.0 EBC)             Extract      4.85 %       
8.50 kg       Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC)            Grain        82.52 %       
0.30 kg       Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC)    Grain        2.91 %       
100.00 gm     Bramling Cross [4.00 %]  (60 min)         Hops         26.9 IBU     
20.00 gm      Bramling Cross [4.00 %]  (20 min)         Hops         3.3 IBU       
20.00 gm      Bramling Cross [4.00 %]  (0 min)          Hops          -           
1.00 kg       Dememera Sugar (3.9 EBC)                  Sugar        9.71 %       
2 Pkgs        Nottingham (Danstar #-)                   Yeast-Ale                 


Hi Tube,

Definitely interested in a bottle of this. Any chance you could make it to the South Dublin meet. We will be having a sample of our own barrel on the day. The gravity looks absolutely monstrous on this and I am curious to see what it will taste like with the bramling cross hops.

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Brewtus on March 16, 2014, 05:17:09 PM
Well done for taking the initiative on this one, Tube. When you think about the huge volume of beer we're committing to, testing the recipe first is a damn good idea. As Shanna has suggested if you could bring a couple of bottles along to the next meeting that would be ideal. We could even buy a shot of whiskey and add a few drops to get some indication of the final result. I'll bring a dropper.

Along with the treacle the other thing that makes this recipe a bit interesting is the use of Bramling Cross hops. I'm not very familiar with these but apparently they are used in Ruddles County so I'll try and find a bottle of that to see if I can notice much difference from the more usual EKG. The latest stock of BX at HBC lists an AA of 7% so closer to your original recipe.

Cheers, Brewtus
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 17, 2014, 07:19:47 PM
Hi guys

Going to state the obvious here but in case there Is any confusion we are going refill the barrel with am English barley wine.

Given we will need to have the barrel emptied before we can fill it again I will start the process of gathering the previous contributors to organise the emptying of the barrel.

I was thinking that we could aim for refilling it towards the mid or the end of May. This would give enough time to brew the barley wine and organise collection.

Please let me know what you think?

Shanna
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: beerfly on March 17, 2014, 09:29:26 PM
tube if your in cork and have it bottled then i could get it off you
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Shanna on March 19, 2014, 07:51:37 PM
Hi guys

There is a hops group buy going on with a deadline of 31st of March. Can we agree a recipe and then we can use the group buy to get the hops sorted out?

Bubbles, Beer fly,  Shiny, Cattal, myself and hopefully Bruce will be at the ST meet next so hopefully we can get it nailed down by then or discuss it in person if need be.

Shanna

P's.  I can donate some crystal malt to the recipe as I have loads.
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: Bubbles on March 22, 2014, 08:42:11 AM
Quote from: Shanna on March 19, 2014, 07:51:37 PM
Hi guys

There is a hops group buy going on with a deadline of 31st of March. Can we agree a recipe and then we can use the group buy to get the hops sorted out?

Bubbles, Beer fly,  Shiny, Cattal, myself and hopefully Bruce will be at the ST meet next so hopefully we can get it nailed down by then or discuss it in person if need be.

Good idea. I say we use the meet next week to at least finalise the approach/style we're going to take. We can hammer out the finer details online I think.

After further reading, I'm even more keen on doing the old ale that myself and Bruce were suggesting. We could use the Jamil recipe in BCS as our basis and maybe scale it up to >10% ABV? Here's the Jamil recipe:

Quote
8.84kg British pale ale malt
340g 80L crystal malt
113g black patent malt
227g black treacle

43g Horizon 13% AA - 60 min
Mash temp 67C

2 sachets Danstar Nottingham

OG: 1.093
FG: 1.022
ABV: 9%

I'll try to convince you next week!!  >:D
Title: Re: Re-filling the barrel
Post by: mcgrath on March 22, 2014, 05:59:19 PM
Have to admit.. the above recipe does sound nice...