Caco3 136.5 ppm
Calcium 100 ppm
Lads, do you guys treat your water in any way? Interested to see how you deal with hard water - dilution? boiling? acids? leave it to mother nature?
I use crs and tehn build it back up calcium chloride, gypsum and epsom salts.
CRS and DLS for me. maybe also a spoon of Gypsum into the boil.
pH 5.2 is a load of cobblers, never found it any good.
CRS and DLS for me. Running my first brew at the moment, so far OK the rest temp of 50c is running at 54c so I will need to adjust the next time.
Quote from: DEMPSEY on July 02, 2013, 03:21:03 PM
CRS and DLS for me. Running my first brew at the moment, so far OK the rest temp of 50c is running at 54c so I will need to adjust the next time.
At last a brew!
Monkey Butt Brown by any chance?
No just Vienna and some melanoiden. This is the first run out and so I am testing the system,already have a list of refinements that I have ID'd :)
Are you doing a protein rest? If so, 54C is perfect. If you carry out the rest towards the lower end of the range you risk poor head retention.
It looks like CRS is the most popular way of treating hard water then. Have any of you looked into lactic or phosphoric acid? I'm preparing a short talk for one of the upcoming Capital Brewers events in TOG and wanted to see what brewers are actually using to treat their water. I'll do up an article as well, so if there's anything you like me to cover give me a shout
I test my water every time, that said My calcium test didn't work this time so I presume it's too old.
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on July 02, 2013, 12:48:28 PM
Lads, do you guys treat your water in any way? Interested to see how you deal with hard water - dilution? boiling? acids? leave it to mother nature?
Last brew I did a scotch ale & tried to mimic the Edinburgh water profile from John Palmers How to Brew. I used all RO water from the filter system & added my salts to the boil kettle (gypsum, calc cholride, epsom & baking soda). I used 100g of acid malt (total grain bill was 4.06kg) in the mash to try hit the ph. It came in at 5.8 ph so will add more next time as the http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/ software is only a starting point really. I got lactic acid in HBW but havent used it yet. Next brew perhaps.
Quote from: Il Tubo on July 02, 2013, 03:41:46 PM
it requires water to be tested for every brew at the amount of calcium varies so much.
That's a very good point. You wouldn't have the same problem diluting brewing water with RO I imagine since there's no upper limit to be avoided. Sure if you can get your hands on cheap RO water you might as well get enough for a full brew day and adjust the minerals to hit the correct pH and what not.
I use bottled water for my brews, the ingredients have pretty details info on the water composition. I use graham wheelers water treatment calculator to work out my crs and salt additions
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html
Quote from: Hop Bomb on July 02, 2013, 03:52:53 PMLast brew I did a scotch ale & tried to mimic the Edinburgh water profile from John Palmers How to Brew. I used all RO water from the filter system & added my salts to the boil kettle (gypsum, calc cholride, epsom & baking soda). I used 100g of acid malt (total grain bill was 4.06kg) in the mash to try hit the ph. It came in at 5.8 ph so will add more next time as the http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/ software is only a starting point really. I got lactic acid in HBW but havent used it yet. Next brew perhaps.
It's the pH of the mash that's really important, not so much the boil. If you had added the gypsum and chloride to the mash it would have helped to lower the pH further.
I've never understood the urge to mimic water profiles (not having a go! I just don't think it's required to clone a beer, except in certain extreme cases). The most important thing is to hit the correct mash pH and add the appropriate amount of minerals to help the enzymes do their thing and keep the yeast happy. Calcium, in particular, is extremely important in this regard.
Lactic acid is great for on-the-fly adjustments, especially for sparge water.
Quote from: Kaymak (kev2403) on July 02, 2013, 03:59:46 PM
I use bottled water for my brews, the ingredients have pretty details info on the water composition. I use graham wheelers water treatment calculator to work out my crs and salt additions
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html
The EZ calculator that Hop Bomb mentions is much easier to use IMO. You should give it a go :)
Thanks Hop Bomb,forgot to check the mash ph, just did and it comes in at 5.2ph :-*
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on July 02, 2013, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: Hop Bomb on July 02, 2013, 03:52:53 PMLast brew I did a scotch ale & tried to mimic the Edinburgh water profile from John Palmers How to Brew. I used all RO water from the filter system & added my salts to the boil kettle (gypsum, calc cholride, epsom & baking soda). I used 100g of acid malt (total grain bill was 4.06kg) in the mash to try hit the ph. It came in at 5.8 ph so will add more next time as the http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/ software is only a starting point really. I got lactic acid in HBW but havent used it yet. Next brew perhaps.
It's the pH of the mash that's really important, not so much the boil. If you had added the gypsum and chloride to the mash it would have helped to lower the pH further.
I've never understood the urge to mimic water profiles (not having a go! I just don't think it's required to clone a beer, except in certain extreme cases). The most important thing is to hit the correct mash pH and add the appropriate amount of minerals to help the enzymes do their thing and keep the yeast happy. Calcium, in particular, is extremely important in this regard.
Lactic acid is great for on-the-fly adjustments, especially for sparge water.
It was my first time building water from scratch & the ppm for everything is in his book. (The water calculator is John Palmers too) so it was an easy introduction for me to try hit that profile so the balance was to the malty side.
Ive listened to the water chemistry podcasts John & Jamil did a good few times & they dont seem to bother with salts in the mash at all. They're using lactic acid in the strike water to hit mash ph.
RO water for sparge & salts in the boil kettle for the flavour profile. Anyone else doing this?
I've never had a problem with Mash ph since adding the salts to the mash, usually between 5.2 and 5.3.
Gypsum generally accentuates hops and calcium chloride malts, which you will get if your adding the salts to the boil but, if your mash ph is too high, you're going to pull out tannin's from the grain which is something you dontb want in the final beer, that horrible grainy astringent taste.
If you add the salts to te mash, that should stabilize the ph and also carry trough to the boil for your flavor also, win win
Quote from: Hop Bomb on July 02, 2013, 04:11:00 PMIve listened to the water chemistry podcasts John & Jamil did a good few times & they dont seem to bother with salts in the mash at all.
Are you sure? That goes against almost everything I have ever read on how to do a successful mash. Calcium is crucial during the mash according to most sources.
Running in and out reading here don't forget to keep some lovely calcium for the boil,alarm went off must dash.
Quote from: DEMPSEY on July 02, 2013, 04:23:26 PM
Running in and out reading here don't forget to keep some lovely calcium for the boil,alarm went off must dash.
Yep. You'll normally lose about half of your mineral salt additions to the grain in the mash. This means that you should probably top them up in the boil to bring them to the right level for the yeast.
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on July 02, 2013, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: Hop Bomb on July 02, 2013, 04:11:00 PMIve listened to the water chemistry podcasts John & Jamil did a good few times & they dont seem to bother with salts in the mash at all.
Are you sure? That goes against almost everything I have ever read on how to do a successful mash. Calcium is crucial during the mash according to most sources.
No not sure now that you've made me question my memory on it. But they were defo not bothering adding salts somewhere & adding them in the BK (maybe its the strike & sparge water as the water doesnt absorb the salts easily?) Il have a listen over the week again.
Oh man Mash out at 16.50 began transfer and sparge all complete at 16.58, 8 minutes for sparge and transfer to Kettle. :) :) :)
Nice!
How did the losses work out on the kettle with whirlpool? did the trub and hops displace much for you?
I transferred 33.5L to the Kettle 90 minute boil with 28L left at boil end. Whirlpool was poor and hops got into pumps causing them to overheat. >:(. I am doing a redesign here.