Hi lads. I've undertaken a task to brew some beers for a friend's wedding. I decided to try the beers today and I'm getting a similar off flavour in the two different batches. The fact that it's the same flavour suggest to me that it is a process thing. The really worrying thing here is that I've started to detect this flavour in some other beers as well, beers that I've brought to NCB meets and were clean at that point.
I was wondering if any of you would be up for an "emergency" meet up to brainstorm what went wrong here. I feel I need help here to find out what's happening so that it doesn't happen again. Also I reckon I have time to brew another batch before the wedding. I really want to follow through and provide some beers.
In terms of the flaw: where the beer should have a good clean yeast profile, I'm getting a Belgian-y flavour. It could be a fermentation temperature thing. But I didn't notice any off flavours when bottling the beers and the flavour is becoming more apparent as the beer ages.
Don't worry, I'm not planning on dumping the beers. But I don't want to serve under par beer.
thanks, colm
Brewer in Distress Alarm!!!
What abou a quick meet in the Boro on Tuesday 7:00 pm / Informal meet so no need to boo!
Its summer after all
HOWEVER I do need an excuse to pop in for a lunchtime pint!
1. Will_D - Bringing one jaded palate
BTW: Open the file with an mp3 player!!
Colm, I saw your post and had to reply straight away. I'm getting the same Belgian-y flavour in a pale ale I bottled a few weeks ago. I've also noticed that the flavour can be more prominent in some bottles rather than others. I think.
Now I have a theory at what's causing this flavour, and it's only a theory at the moment, but it's something you might consider. This particular beer had a normal ferment, perhaps slightly warmer than usual, but nothing too bad. The difference between this batch and the others I've done is that this one hasn't had the usual cold conditioning period that you get with Irish winters and summers. I'm going to test this over the next few days - leaving one bottle in the fridge for a week and another for just a day to see if there's perceptible difference in the flavour. Could all be nonsense of course, we shall see..
Of course, if you are kegging and/or cold conditioning already, then you might have a bigger problem relating to runaway fermentation temperatures or (god forbid) an infection. I used US-05 in mine, what are you using?
I'd be on for a quick meet up on Tuesday. Really want other brewers' takes on what's gone on.
But to Bubbles' questions... I don't keg or cold condition and I also used us-05 on one of the batches. I wonder if it is a temperature thing. But for one of the batches, I thought the thermometer sticker on the bucket read quite low. But that may not mean much. But back to your theory, I was wondering about the temperature as well while bottle conditioning. I do pay attention to the temp during primary, but to be honest once bottled I ignore it...
My money is on fermentation temperature :(
What were you fermenting at, be honest now no judgement here just sticking plasterers.
The temp in my shed is 23 during the day now and my ales in my fridge are being cooled!
Quote from: Ciderhead on July 21, 2013, 09:13:04 PM
My money is on fermentation temperature :(
What were you fermenting at, be honest now...
I actually don't know :( Everything is in the house and temp has obviously been higher lately.
dont sweat it we are all at it :(
http://nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,3236.msg39415.html#msg39415
Met eireann forecasting it to piss all this week but temps still high!
I had a batch of beer fermented in ~25-26C last summer with US-05 and got ethyl acetate, solvent-like esters.
So it could be high temp but could be something else as well.
US-05 in one batch. WLP810 in another.
Same off flavours. I did a bit more research last night and another theory suggested that the flavours are generated because of Chlorine present. I currently don't filter my water or use campden tablets, so I will entertain this. I've never detected a chlorine taste in my beers before and this flavour seems to only be present in my most recent stuff. I don't consider my tap water that chorine-y compared to other sources and that's why I never bothered with treatment. But I suppose the water supply won't always be constant. Maybe the levels have been higher this summer???
Not sure how legit this theory is. I'm definitely leaning more towards the temperature and especially conditioning issues as Bubbles mentioned. I'm thinking that the yeast would be made dormant after bottle conditioning because of lower ambient temps, but with the heat wave, the yeasts stay more active...
So are we up for a tasting tomorrow evening? I've samples chilling. 8)
Were you getting TCP?
Water quality varies dramatically month on month depending on the available supply and consistency of the source, ask Tube who measures it regularly, add into that mix a human element and it will be a nightmare for the waterworks now when it pisses out of the heavens later this week as all the crap is stirred up and flushed into the reservoirs after such a prolonged dry spell.
I am sure professional automated works have it all under control ha!, but local country works will "open her up a bit just to be on the safe side" :(
A bucket overnight allows a lot to gas off or boil or the campden will also do the job.
It was suggested to me recently that this may also be the issue with my past dodgy brews(at least in part), was told to dose 20lts with half a campden overnight before brewing ?
Quote from: ColmR on July 22, 2013, 12:39:03 PM
So are we up for a tasting tomorrow evening? I've samples chilling. 8)
Why not :P Same time as usual?
Quote from: deadman1972 on July 22, 2013, 01:07:08 PM
It was suggested to me recently that this may also be the issue with my past dodgy brews(at least in part), was told to dose 20lts with half a campden overnight before brewing ?
Did it fix anything?
I will pop along, I have an all grain stout that got to 30 degrees in fermentation and has a sour taste I will bring along.
Quote from: ColmR on July 22, 2013, 02:13:17 PM
Quote from: deadman1972 on July 22, 2013, 01:07:08 PM
It was suggested to me recently that this may also be the issue with my past dodgy brews(at least in part), was told to dose 20lts with half a campden overnight before brewing ?
Did it fix anything?
Don't know yet Colm, i imagine it will take the next few brews to work it out. Have not had time recently to do many brews tbh so have not had a chance to try this out yet.
Just an update on this after the NCB meet up last night. It turns out that I may have been a tad paranoid about the US-05 batches.
However there were definite phenolics present in the WLP810 batches. The second brew used the yeast cake (rinsed) from the first batch and I think I brought any issues from the first in to the second beer. At the time of brewing the second batch I had no indication from tasting that there were phenol issues or other with the first batch. The phenols in the second batch were way higher than the first batch, but it's still very young so I don't know if the beer will mellow at all. But Will had a brilliant idea of how to possibly save these beers. He suggested serving them in jugs with a slice of lemon or orange. Could definitely be on to a winner :). I wondered if the reason for the off flavour was because of a slightly out of date yeast vial, but the lads reckoned that it was probably not the case.
With the US-05 batches I must have brainwashed myself into thinking that there were phenols present. Mad what the mind can do. Anyway those beers were quite tasty and had a nice hops aroma/flavour.
In typical NCB fassion we discussed process in really good detail. Re chlorine question: most of the guys don't filter or use campden tablets and haven't experienced phenols in their beers. We tasted the Swords tap water as well. Once we got past the blackcurrant flavours from the "clean" glassware, we could detect chlorine but the levels weren't that high. Will felt that the chlorine levels out his way are higher than what we tasted there and he does use a carbon filter, but I reckon that my own tap water was very similar to the Swords water. I think I'll try a campden tablet next time to see if there is any noticable difference.
For the temperature question, Brian brought a stout that was brewed with US-05 but fermented at around 30 degrees. There was a tartness that Brian wanted to discuss but none of us thought that it was a fermentation related issue. It was a good clean brew and we thought that the tartness was probably a result of too much dark malt in the grain bill. It was interesting to taste the beer brewed at the high temp and not detect any flaws. Will dubded it the World's first Summer Stout!
Phenolics can be wild yeast, which might make sense if you're repitching.
Interesting food for thought ColmR cheers. I reckon my next few brews if i cant get bottled water handy i will just add a campden to 25 litres overnight.