I went filtering a pale ale last night -
The reason I filtered was I am bringing the keg to kerry in the car and I know it will get all shook up to hell.
I basically have one of these - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEuawC_5O-k
But I did it over the space of an hour - I think the guys flow rate is a little too fast for my liking.
Last night I filtered using a 5 micron filter - after some more reading - it would appear 1 micron is much better for removing yeast.
I also added 50g of hops in a bag to the destination keg.
Basically - I wany hops but I dont want yeast in a pale ale
Anyone else filter ?
Quote from: Partridge9 on July 31, 2013, 10:10:11 AM
it would appear 1 micron is much better for removing yeast.
I also added 50g of hops in a bag to the destination keg.
Basically - I wany hops but I dont want yeast in a pale ale
Anyone else filter ?
1 micron is what a lot of breweries filter to (Metalman and O'Hara's anyway).
I'll definitely consider it once I get my kegs up and running.
From what I know those filters can be used once to filter up to 10 gallons.
Are you getting them locally or from states?
Saw one of these setups on amazon.com recently. Looks good but the filters are single use only, then agin i think they were only like $3 each? The initial setup was about $50 i believe. Must see if i can find that link again. 8)
http://www.amazon.com/Home-Brew-Stuff-BF-10C-Filtration/dp/B00420OIT8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375263568&sr=8-2&keywords=beer+cartridge+filter
http://www.amazon.com/Purenex-1M-4PK-1-Micron-Sediment-Cartridge/dp/B000AOL0M8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375263568&sr=8-1&keywords=beer+cartridge+filter
You can get them locally from water filtration suppliers. I tried one with a 5 and 1 micron filter. It stripped a lot of flavour from the beer I found though.
Quote from: deadman1972 on July 31, 2013, 10:40:38 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Home-Brew-Stuff-BF-10C-Filtration/dp/B00420OIT8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375263568&sr=8-2&keywords=beer+cartridge+filter
http://www.amazon.com/Purenex-1M-4PK-1-Micron-Sediment-Cartridge/dp/B000AOL0M8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375263568&sr=8-1&keywords=beer+cartridge+filter
Yep, but that's the stuff from HomeBrewStuff in US so it will cost u over $40 to get it posted to Ireland :(
True Jacob but as CH has pointed out before i live in arse end of nowhere(i think those were his exact words) so its mail order. I tried Amazon.co.uk but can't find anything similar on it. Been looking for this for my wish list. ::)
I have been considering filtering also. Was thinking along the lines of this housing (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Single-Clear-Filter-Housing-connections/dp/B004BADS0Y/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kh_3#productDescription) with a filter pack (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reverse-Sediment-Water-Cartridges-treatment/dp/B0049GY5CK/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1375269776&sr=1-1&keywords=10%22+10+micron+filter) and just add the piping and disconnects myself. I see a couple of guys filtering on youtube with a 10 micron filter and I wonder is that a good compromise between preventing the flavour from being stripped away and clarity? I don't see them on amazon but they are on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-10-MICRON-SEDIMENT-WATER-FILTER-RO-REVERSE-OSMOSIS-/230574945390?pt=UK_HGKitchen_SmallApp_RL&hash=item35af56746e).
There is also this filter kit http://morebeer.com/products/beer-wine-plate-filter-kit.html Ive heard the guys on brewing network talk about using this one.
Quote from: shiny on July 31, 2013, 12:27:19 PM
I have been considering filtering also. Was thinking along the lines of this housing (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Single-Clear-Filter-Housing-connections/dp/B004BADS0Y/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kh_3#productDescription) with a filter pack (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reverse-Sediment-Water-Cartridges-treatment/dp/B0049GY5CK/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1375269776&sr=1-1&keywords=10%22+10+micron+filter) and just add the piping and disconnects myself. I see a couple of guys filtering on youtube with a 10 micron filter and I wonder is that a good compromise between preventing the flavour from being stripped away and clarity? I don't see them on amazon but they are on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-10-MICRON-SEDIMENT-WATER-FILTER-RO-REVERSE-OSMOSIS-/230574945390?pt=UK_HGKitchen_SmallApp_RL&hash=item35af56746e).
Thats basically the same setup as the yank one Shiny only they charge more plus shipping. Great idea there you have,especially if you want to build it up by degrees. Anybody into kegging would know how to knock up their own tubing and fittings anyway ;D
Quote from: Hop Bomb on July 31, 2013, 12:43:34 PM
There is also this filter kit http://morebeer.com/products/beer-wine-plate-filter-kit.html Ive heard the guys on brewing network talk about using this one.
Thats very much the same as the one below i reckon Hop Bomb, have heard they are rather flimsy. The advantage with the other ones i see is they at least appear stronger, the flow should be faster, you can use them to filter your tap water as well? ;D
http://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/hf-vinbrite-mk3-filter-p-956.html
I toyed with this with a 10" water filter housing with 10 micron a good while ago , made absolutely little or no difference to the clarity of the beer, bought a reusable filter , absolute nightmare to clean ....
@deadman: The one from more beer looks way better. Its got nuts & bolts on it + you transfer under pressure using co2 unlike those vinoferm/vinbrite filters which use gravity.
Any tips for clearer beers without filtering? Im not bothered filtering & cant use isinglass as I want to keep my beers vegan. Being careful no to disturb the yeast bed when transferring + aging time in the lager fridge/kegerator should drop most of the yeast out right?
Quote from: Hop Bomb on July 31, 2013, 02:41:51 PM
@deadman: The one from more beer looks way better. Its got nuts & bolts on it + you transfer under pressure using co2 unlike those vinoferm/vinbrite filters which use gravity.
Any tips for clearer beers without filtering? Im not bothered filtering & cant use isinglass as I want to keep my beers vegan. Being careful no to disturb the yeast bed when transferring + aging time in the lager fridge/kegerator should drop most of the yeast out right?
The old sages all say time is the key to clearing, however that is not always convenient or possible ;D Thanks i did not look at that link too close will check it again. Hop Bomb do you think its a good setup?
Tasty from the brewing network uses it (but one of their sponsors is more beer) Looks decent anyway. Instructions here http://imgur.com/FCj9VWx
I use a 10" filter housing and a 1u filter. I chill down to 1c for a couple of days and pump out through the 1u filter. This give a nice clear beer without having to wait weeks. 1u leaves enough yeast to bottle condition too.
these guys have the housings and filters.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/10-WATER-FILTER-HOUSING-3-4-PORTS-CLEAR-BOWL-/180680028688?pt=UK_HGKitchen_SmallApp_RL&hash=item2a115e7210
You can back flush the spun polyprop filters and re use them although they are about €2.50 in chadwicks now so why bother.
By the way one filter can easily handle 60l in about 10 minutes.
I'm actually looking for a 0.5u filter for beers which won't be bottle conditioned.
@Jacob
Unfortunately they really are only single use - but you could in theory use one filter for two batches if you did it together.
Also it would handle 10 gallon batches no problem.
I bought the filter system and a 'box' full of 1micron and 5 micron for roughly 100euro all in.
Quote from: christhebrewer on July 31, 2013, 06:11:39 PM
I use a 10" filter housing and a 1u filter. I chill down to 1c for a couple of days and pump out through the 1u filter. This give a nice clear beer without having to wait weeks. 1u leaves enough yeast to bottle condition too.
these guys have the housings and filters.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/10-WATER-FILTER-HOUSING-3-4-PORTS-CLEAR-BOWL-/180680028688?pt=UK_HGKitchen_SmallApp_RL&hash=item2a115e7210
You can back flush the spun polyprop filters and re use them although they are about €2.50 in chadwicks now so why bother.
By the way one filter can easily handle 60l in about 10 minutes.
I'm actually looking for a 0.5u filter for beers which won't be bottle conditioned.
Chris what about the fittings that go into the top for connecting the pipework, have looked on their site and they don't e=seem to have them?
Most of my connections are 1/2" copper. I use a short piece of copper, around 50 or 60mm long. This is a perfect fit to push a 12mm silicone hose onto. Set up is;
Solar projects pump connected directly to the 1/2" ball valve on the fermenter. copper on the outlet of the pump connected to copper on the inlet of the filter via 12mm hose. same on the filter outlet to the keg or bottling bucket.
First connect pump to bucket bleach/vinegar and flush the whole thing through for a few mins.
Then move it all to the fermenter outlet and let the beer push out the bleach/vinegar. When the beer starts to arrive just catch it in the keg (flushed with CO2 of course) when the keg is full catch the rest in the bottling bucket.
I have found a company in the Netherlands who have 0.5 micron filters. Will talk to them next week.
Chris is there any chance we could have a demonstration of you filtering and see how successful it can be. It would be a good video clip. :)
I'll have a go but I ain't Speilberg!
Is James not way ahead on this?
Quote from: shiny on July 31, 2013, 12:27:19 PM
I have been considering filtering also. Was thinking along the lines of this housing (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Single-Clear-Filter-Housing-connections/dp/B004BADS0Y/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kh_3#productDescription) with a filter pack (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reverse-Sediment-Water-Cartridges-treatment/dp/B0049GY5CK/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1375269776&sr=1-1&keywords=10%22+10+micron+filter) and just add the piping and disconnects myself. I see a couple of guys filtering on youtube with a 10 micron filter and I wonder is that a good compromise between preventing the flavour from being stripped away and clarity? I don't see them on amazon but they are on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-10-MICRON-SEDIMENT-WATER-FILTER-RO-REVERSE-OSMOSIS-/230574945390?pt=UK_HGKitchen_SmallApp_RL&hash=item35af56746e).
Has anyone given any thought to how filtering might affect flavour? From where I'm standing there might be two mechanisms. The first is that filtering might result in oxygen pick up from the lines, pump, filter frame set up etc, just like any movement can result in oxygen pick up. I think this is especially likely in a homebrew set up where it might be difficult to flush the lines and filter with deaerated water before hand. Also flushing will inevitably result in losses around the side (watering down beer). The other route is simple degassing. Filtering degasses the beer so you lose volatile flavour compounds with the gas. That happens when you move beer too.
I doubt that filter size has much or anything to do with losing flavour simply because the flavour compounds are absolutely tiny and could get through all but the very smallest filters. They're probably only 100ths of a micron. This graphic gives you an idea of relative molecule sizes. http://kenanddot.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/filtration-spectrum.jpg.
Yeah I was pondering about the oxygenation issue also and was thinking that at the very least you could purge the lines with CO2 although its difficult to know what would happen inside the filter, I'm sure a certain level of oxygen would be hanging around in there.
In terms of filtering removing flavour we need to think about what we are actually removing from the beer here. Depending on the filter size in micron you are removing the following from beer:
Yeast
Hop material
Grain/Husk material
Tannins
Large Proteins
While each of these components will technically contribute to flavour, perhaps negatively, it might be a good thing removing them?
As Irish Goat has said,Metalman and O'Hara's use a 1 micron level of filtering. This answers a question of is the beer intended to be a cask ale or is it destined to be a keg ale. Knowing that the beer is intended to be a keg ale you can increase the amount of hops in the beer because you will lose a portion when you filter and so arrive at your target bitterness. Filtering removes yeast which has a flavour(taste it raw). This yeast flavour contributes to the taste of cask ale and so its important what yeast you use to make your cask ale.
Removing yeast and other particles takes out a lot of bitterness because isomerised alpha acids are really sticky and cling to the yeast trub etc removed in the filter. Swipe your finger along one of the filter sheets after filtration and pick up and taste some of the yeast on it. It is appallingly bitter.
It's just a way to achieve a certain style of beer, Metalman and O'Hara's are super pale ales and among my favorites and if I can make something close to theirs I will be very happy.( I didn't know they were 1 micron filtered so I'm happy I'm on the right track)
On the other hand if you want a yeasty, casky old school ale then filtering may not be right. It's just a choice like mash temp etc....
Quote from: christhebrewer on July 31, 2013, 06:11:39 PM
I'm actually looking for a 0.5u filter for beers which won't be bottle conditioned.
0.5 micron?
You're looking to do sterile filtration?
Quote from: UpsidedownA (Andrew) on August 03, 2013, 09:38:22 AM
Has anyone given any thought to how filtering might affect flavour? From where I'm standing there might be two mechanisms. The first is that filtering might result in oxygen pick up from the lines, pump, filter frame set up etc, just like any movement can result in oxygen pick up. I think this is especially likely in a homebrew set up where it might be difficult to flush the lines and filter with deaerated water before hand. Also flushing will inevitably result in losses around the side (watering down beer). The other route is simple degassing. Filtering degasses the beer so you lose volatile flavour compounds with the gas. That happens when you move beer too.
The fact is most brewers hate what filtering does to beer. It strips out hop flavour. The recommended way to filter is to go from a 10 or a 5 micron down to a 1 after, then carefully consider if you want to go sterile with the 0.5 micron. You can go straight to 1 but it will create a-lot of foaming, almost certainly oxidise the beer, clog easily and strip out hops as well as head retention.
However filtering, in the exception of sterile filtering, does next to nothing for shelf life. Most brewers I've asked about it have said straight out that most of the time you decrease shelf life as you're constantly running the risk of further DO2 intake. Especially as the beer should be cold at the time to increase turbidity, it is far more susceptible to air intake at the same time.
I'd say use a mixture of finings and one filter run, but at 5 microns. Plan ahead for the loss in Co2, hopping and head retention too. Bring the beer as close to 0 centigrade as you can beforehand and give it a go. I think the negatives outweigh the benefits though for a homebrewer. I'd love to hear how this goes though. The plate filters from morebeer look like the best option.
Before you even consider a filter: Smell it! Some filters smell like fresh beer mats ( celullose ) others may smeel a bit plasticy ( spun polyester ).
Before running your best beer run plain water, then a similar (sacrificial) beer through, the its safe for the polished prize winner!
I'm not arguing the case for or against filtering but I would recommend trying it. It's the only way to know how it tastes. I'm enjoying an american pale ale right now which was filtered at 1 micron and I can say it's pretty good. Plenty of hop aroma and loads of bitterness.
The 1 micron still leaves quite a bit of yeast on the bottom of the keg so I'm intereseted to see what a 0.5 tastes like. To see if it clears all the yeast.( and at what cost in flavour). Could be usefull for a lager.
Home brewing requires some instructions and steps to be followed to carry on the production from start to finish. A number of stages and methods are used in wine making. These methods facilitate wine production. These steps are:
1) Viticulture
2) Harvesting
3) Crushing
4) Fermentation
5) Filtration
Filtration is the last, but most important step of beer brewing. This technique is also referred as stabilization. There are several techniques and clarifying agents available in the market which are used for filtration. I use Home brew west beer making kit and filtering devices for beer filtration. You can easily find the kit here at: http://www.homebrewwest.ie/homebrew-beer-starter-kits-8-c.asp
Nice Plug ;)
Is that a bot?
Can I ban it?
No just somebody that works in HBW ;D
Hmmm...
A first post with a link to the HBW website?
I use HBW and will continue to do so, but the post is a statement followed by a scenic route to paid solutions but not a solution, so OT IMO.
Yeah its off topic. Starter kits have absolutely nothing got to do with filtering beer.
If it is a bot I'm impressed with its accuracy though.
It does feel odd to me as well. :-\
Send a PM and see what comes back? 8)
Check the registration email and if it is a jumbled mess then its safe to assume its a bot.
Pm sent.
Bot.
Heres the IP
115.112.119.198.static-delhi.vsnl.net.in
The 'Delhi' and '.in' tell a tale.
but why would a bot promo HBW ?
Ah feck. Was just fantasising what Amy J looked like.
Quote from: Dunkel on August 08, 2013, 05:57:55 PM
Ah feck. Was just fantasising what Amy J looked like.
Well given that she is from cyber space you can design her how you please.
Quote from: Dunkel on August 08, 2013, 05:57:55 PM
Ah feck. Was just fantasising what Amy J looked like.
Quote from: DEMPSEY on August 08, 2013, 06:05:36 PM
Quote from: Dunkel on August 08, 2013, 05:57:55 PM
Ah feck. Was just fantasising what Amy J looked like.
Well given that she is from cyber space you can design her how you please.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UJ9K8lMxPA
This is none bot material, and I am not trying to promote anything just thought this was a good resource and in tow with the OP
Unfortunately there is not a web link to this article, mods feel free to remove it it
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BeerSmith Home Brewing News
Filtering your Home Brewed Beer
Almost all commercial brewers filter their beer to rapidly improve flavor and clarity. Yet few home brewers filter their beer, either because they lack the equipment or prefer the raw flavor of unfiltered beer. However filtering is a good option for intermediate to advanced brewers who want crystal clear, smooth flavored beer.
Why Filter?
Filtering removes yeast, tannins and some large proteins from the beer that contribute both to off flavors and haze. While many of these impurities will eventually precipitate out of the beer through lagering and aging, filtering accelerates the process by removing them in minutes instead of weeks or months. This is a big reason why commercial brewers use filters - time is money and it is much cheaper for them to filter the beer than store it for weeks or months.
Filtering also has the advantage that it can remove very small impurities from the beer - even those that would not fall out of suspension in the natural aging process. Filters can remove particles as small as 1 micron or even smaller. This can result in a cleaner flavor and much better clarity than is possible with natural aging.
A question many new brewers ask is if they can filter their beer to eliminate the sediment in the bottom of the bottles? The answer is unfortunately no, unless you have some kind of kegging/carbonation system. Filtering the beer removes the yeast from it, so if you filter and then bottle with priming sugar you will just get flat beer.
The only way to filter and bottle beer is to filter your beer into a keg, then artificially carbonate it, and then bottle it from the keg using a counter-pressure bottle filler or beer gun. Also having a pressurized keg makes it much easier to use an inline filter, as gravity works very slowly with typical beer filters.
Choosing a Filter
First, you need to choose a filter size. The filter should be fine enough to filter out tannins and yeast cells, but not too fine or it could alter the flavor of your finished beer. Around 1 micron is the sweet spot for filter size - smaller than 0.5 microns and you risk filtering out some flavor, while larger ones (5 micron and up) may leave yeast in the beer. To filter out bacteria which some commercial brewers do for shelf stability, you need to go to 0.3 microns or below. I don't recommend going below 0.5 microns for home brewing.
Another factor when choosing filter size is how fast your filter may clog. Many commercial brewers actually use a two stage filter. They start with a 5 micron filter to eliminate the large particles and then use a smaller 0.5 micron filter inline as a second stage to filter small particles. If you have a large budget you can do the same, but for a single filter 1 micron is fine.
The most popular beer filters are inline canister filters with a replaceable filter element. These are inexpensive and work well if you have high quality filter cartridges. Some wine filters come in a plate format which offers a larger surface area that is less prone to clogging. I do not recommend using household water filters as these are slow and prone to clogging. Purchase a filter designed for use with beer and change your filter often as the small inline filters clog quickly.
Filtering Your Homebrew
Despite the fact that filtering can be used to accelerate the aging of your beer, you don't want to filter your home brewed beer too early. Some important chemical changes take place during the later phases of fermentation and early aging. If you halt these too early by filtering you will end up with poor flavor balance. Commercial brewers use a additives and techniques that allow them to filter earlier.
Allow the beer to fully complete fermentation and then sit in the secondary for at least 2-3 weeks before filtering, then move it to your keg. The filtering process is very simple if you use two kegs. Place your inline filter in between the full and empty kegs and use low CO2 pressure to transfer the beer from one keg to the other through the filter.
Once the filtering/transfer is complete, close the top on the second keg, purge the air from the top several times and you can refrigerate and force carbonate it as you normally would with any keg.
Looking for high quality filters and filtering equipment? MoreBeer carries a full line of equipment and when you order via this link you will be supporting BeerSmith