National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Kit Brewing => Topic started by: flairman123 on August 09, 2013, 10:49:07 PM

Title: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: flairman123 on August 09, 2013, 10:49:07 PM
Hi.

I am looking for some help regarding kegging please?
I have been brewing a couple of months now, starting with  Mr Beer kit which all worked out great,
and now I have progressed onto the Coopers kit,and also using a second 23l fermenter.

The only draw back was the amount of bottling,so I invested in a I-brew Tap-A-Draught.
Initially all went well filled my 4 x 10 pint Pet bottles with the suggested ammount of priming sugar(dextrose) and left condition/secondary fermentation for 4 weeks.
Then fitted the regulator/dispenser charged the Co2 as per instruction(2x 8grm) and left in fridge for a day to allow C02 to be absorbed into the beer.
Then removed beer charged some more CO2 for dispensing,and it worked great except the beer is pretty flat.

Originally I was going to purchase a king keg system but did not have a fridge to be able to cool it in(but since I have acquired one on the cheap),and the more I read about kegging (beside using cornies) the more confused I am getting.

Is it correct in saying that if you want a highly carbonated beer (i.e. Lager) then you are better off not kegging and sticking to bottles?
I know certain beers such as stout and possibly pale ales are generally not highly carbonated ,but what about the other types?

After doing a bit of research about King Keg (was thinking of investing now that I got a spare fridge!),general feedback seems to be the same.
It is very difficult to highly carbonate the beer in a king keg because the pressure relief will lift,so it is recommended either to stick to bottles or make a different type of beer more suited to lower carb levels.

I know a simple solution could be just charging more C02 into the Pet bottles/King Keg but there seems to be a fine line between getting the carbonation right by doing this or having a keg full of froth when dispensing.

I know its all a learning curve and flat beer is probably better than no beer but can anybody enlighten me regarding natural secondary fermentation/carbonation when kegging.
The consensus seems to be that you do not add as much priming sugar when kegging as you would when bottling a batch of beer?
If you do this will you be left with a lower carbed beer,if you don't will your keg pressure relief lift and leave you with a lower carbed beer anyway?

I would love to get this right as i am making a honey beer at the moment.
Coopers Canadian Blonde, 700 grm of Honey boiled in water to sanitize,and brew enhancer 2 to add some Maltodextrin to balance the potential sweetness.
Primary fermentation is almost complete and all is going great so far.
Was planning on potentially putting this in a King Keg all going well.
Any help here guys would be great!!
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: Ciderhead on August 10, 2013, 01:10:39 AM
We all progress towards corny kegs in the fridge in the end :)
1 Corny €50
2 2x connectors €20
3 1x5kg co2 tank filled €30-40
4 1 Fridge free-€100
5 Picnic tap 15-20 Beer tap 30-50
6 Pipework 10-20

You need your beer to be cold to get C02 into it
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: LordEoin on August 10, 2013, 02:05:26 AM
Some day I'll cave...
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: Ciderhead on August 10, 2013, 02:24:25 AM
and then we end out buying beer guns and filling bottles again "circle of life", less sediment of course.
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: LordEoin on August 10, 2013, 02:53:52 AM
But sediment is part of your 5-a-day. And it's probiotic, like Actimel...  ;D
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: johnrm on August 10, 2013, 12:30:30 PM
@flairman123, I'm up the road if you want to look at kegging. Give me a bell if you want a snoop. You have my number.
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: Shane Phelan on August 10, 2013, 12:41:34 PM
Quote from: Ciderhead on August 10, 2013, 01:10:39 AM
We all progress towards corny kegs in the fridge in the end :)

This.

I had previously considered the 5L mini kegs due to the lack of space in my tiny apartment but at the end of the day I liked the flexibility of the corny kegs and compromised by getting 10L (http://www.mybeerandwine.ie/10-litre-keg-p-435.html) corny's instead.
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: montofk on August 10, 2013, 05:36:58 PM
Quote from: Ciderhead on August 10, 2013, 01:10:39 AM

You need your beer to be cold to get C02 into it

Is that right CH?! Is it a must?
I know colder beer absorbs CO2 quicker / easier but thought it would still work at room temp? (Albeit a bit slower)?
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: newToBrew on August 10, 2013, 09:01:43 PM
I think the lower temps of the beer allow the liquid to absorb more of the gas than say if it is at room temp

There is a quick and dirty shake and roll method - where you gas it up a bit - then roll the keg about to get the gas in - let it rest - repeat if nesecary
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: montofk on August 10, 2013, 09:34:57 PM
Yeah that's the method I was planning to use if I was in a hurry!
Thought it'd work ok tho at room temp too, even if slower than cold temp.
Haven't got a fridge yet, was planning in the short term to drop into a chest freezer for an hour or something before drinking... Or in winter would probably be fine to leave in the shed, would resemble cellar temps for 6 months of the year I'm sure.
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: flairman123 on August 11, 2013, 12:44:30 AM
Thanks for all the replies guys.
Has anybody got any insight into being able to carbonate for example Lager with a King Keg.
I don't know if I will take the leap to cornies yet?
Anybody using  King Keg?
My plan before my issues was to get a handle on kegging using a K.K.first ,then in time use my King keg for secondary fermentation before transferring sediment free to a cornie.
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: johnrm on August 11, 2013, 01:00:50 AM
Have you got a weak relief valve?
Is there a poor seal on the lid?
When you gas the keg do you leave the S30 in situ or do you remove it?
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: flairman123 on August 11, 2013, 01:56:11 AM
Hi John.
Thanks for the info.
I think the point of my questions are being missed maybe the its the way I am putting them across.
I currently do not have  King Keg but had planned to purchase one to get away from bottling.
I do currently have a tap a draught system which I purchased for the same reason(4 x 6L PET bottles a whole coopers brew in 4 bottles sounded good!).
Unfortunately  after secondary fermentation and addition of CO2 bulbs the carbonation is not great.
After doing some research on Tap a draught its seems that there is only so far the bottles can go before potential damage can occur.,so its more suited to lower carbed beers.
Next stop was potentially a King Keg system,but again researching has told me that they also may not be suitable for more highly carbonated beers such as Lagers etc because of pressure relief issues/design pressures.
I was hoping as I became more knowledgeable ,to progress from Tap-A-Draught to King Keg- to Cornie in time, not wanting to waste my King Keg I would ultimately use it for secondary fermentation before transferring to a cornie,or that was the plan at least.

So I just wanted to know if there were any King Keg users on the forum and had they experienced any of the issues I have listed,if so, I just might bottle for the time being until I get the money to go straight to cornie!

Thanks for the invite to view your keg system too!

Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: johnrm on August 11, 2013, 11:02:27 AM
Sorry, too much to read, so I missed that it was tap-a-draft.
The principles are still the same though, Beer is Beer
See other people's experiences here...
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/review/product/list/id/970/

Re reading the OP, did you under prime originally?
Why are you force carbing as well as bottle conditioning?

Was this your first batch in the TAD?
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: newToBrew on August 11, 2013, 11:52:25 AM
If  was u I'd forget about the king keg - stick with tap a draft for now - or bottle or both and start building up what you need for the cornies - alternatively - there is a 5 litreparty keg package on the homebrew sites  for @ 70 quid which may meet your needs - I borrowed one once
- put a pale ale in it - batch primed and did not notice any low carbed issues

These things are relatively small compared to cornies and can be used to keg excess beer when u go cornies

I just see the  king keg thing as ultimately a waste of money

Just my opinion though - and I ave to admit - never had or used one
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: flairman123 on August 11, 2013, 08:40:56 PM
Thanks for the replies guys.
John, I initially primed with the recommended amount of priming sugar(dextrose) into the bottles,and conditioned for 4 weeks.
Then charged with a CO2 bulb to aid dispensing and all worked great except the beer was very poorly carbonated.
I'll take the advise and stick with the tap a draught and bottles and save for a cornie.
Thanx.
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: Garry on August 14, 2013, 04:46:18 PM
I've been doing some research on the bits and pieces required for kegging. I came across this  (http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58098&hilit=disconnects)on Jim's Beer Kit. It's like a home made king keg using a 25L jerry can. The CO2 comes from bicycle tyre refills. It looks interesting and very cheap.
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: Ciderhead on August 14, 2013, 06:19:54 PM
These containers are not pressure rated and are absolute pants at holding anything to do with pressurised gas for the longer term.
Best case all your C02 will be pressurised out through the walls of the container.
Worse case you create a 25L beer bomb and redecorate your living room.

I'm sure I dropped 14 kegs to you yesterday ;)

p.s. to all keg virgins please please never ever ever push your keg to max pressure (which can be up to 7 Bar on the new kegs) holding the connection or standing over them :(

and now as we all like explosions, its obviously a diffrent type of drum, 3 times wall thickness, designed to be dropped so has stronger top and bottom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjrR_SX4aBg
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: Garry on August 14, 2013, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: Ciderhead on August 14, 2013, 06:19:54 PM
I'm sure I dropped 14 kegs to you yesterday ;)

Haa! That's why I doing some research.

I still think it's a cool idea. I might give it a go on a 5L or 10L one some time*. You've been in my garage, sure if it sprays beer all over the walls it'll only compliment the sticky floor :P


*Don't hold your breath!
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: AdeFlesk on August 15, 2013, 06:05:35 PM
I would buy swing top bottles or use reg bottles and a capper.,  and use http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html   (http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html) to calculate the amount of sugar to for the amount of carbination you need. You wont go wrong then when ready go down the corny route.
Title: Re: Confused & Kegging Questions.
Post by: LordEoin on August 16, 2013, 02:32:20 AM
+1