National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Equipment & Chemicals => Topic started by: baconsarnie on August 21, 2013, 04:16:21 PM

Title: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: baconsarnie on August 21, 2013, 04:16:21 PM
Aiming to upgrade from a small fridge with 2 kegs to a keezer to hold 4 or 5. For the fridge I've been pretty haphazard in temperature control and just moderated the fridge's settings till i got a serving temp i was happy with. Yes, I am bone idle.

Anyways, that won't be an option so has anyone any recommendations for temperature control. I'm looking for something that involved minimal wiring- I won't have time for an additional project.

So I'm basically looking for the "easiest to install and none too pricey option" please (you can call it a lazy Cavan man solution)
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: montofk on August 21, 2013, 04:25:31 PM
Quote from: baconsarnie on August 21, 2013, 04:16:21 PM
Aiming to upgrade from a small fridge with 2 kegs.....

Just a chancing my arm with a thought but... what are you doing with your old fridge?  :P Where are you based?
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: baconsarnie on August 21, 2013, 05:03:22 PM
 Just a chancing my arm with a thought but... what are you doing with your old fridge?  :P Where are you based?
[/quote]

Haven't started the upgrade yet, just sourcing the parts. Once i get started & have the other fridge available I'll post here

Based in Dublin
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: baconsarnie on August 21, 2013, 05:08:33 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on August 21, 2013, 04:22:59 PM
WillHi 7016. An NHC favourite, and plenty on ebay for like €15 delivered or less.

You can turn your fridge up to max and just use it inline (i.e. plug the fridge into a socket wired to the 7016) or a neater solution is to bypass the thermostat.

This one look okay?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-Keg-Beer-Tap-Kegerator-Keezer-Chest-Freezer-/121092751233


Is bypassing a freezer's thermostat easy? (obviously easy if you know how...can wire a plug and a bit more beside but does it need much dismantling of the freezer etc?)
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: vonHolt on August 21, 2013, 05:12:33 PM
STC-1000 on ebay.co.uk - 12.05 Sterling, shipping included.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/All-Purpose-Temperature-Controller-STC-1000-Thermostat-Aquarium-HD23L-sensor-/121150114635?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item1c351c0b4b

Get a parcel motel account and the first two drops are free (If I remember correctly)
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: JimmyM on August 21, 2013, 05:43:50 PM
Quote from: vonHolt on August 21, 2013, 05:12:33 PM

Get a parcel motel account and the first two drops are free (If I remember correctly)

Not any more, that ended about a month ago - but i believe they do give you a free towel and pair of slippers as a little pressie though for signing up. And ya get to pick it out of the lockers.
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 21, 2013, 05:48:59 PM
Have you had played Parcel Motel slots Yet?.
My 3 kids all pick a locker and then the one closest the locker that actually opens wins a euro. 
Who says brewing isn't a family activity
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Greg2013 on August 21, 2013, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on August 21, 2013, 05:22:22 PM
WillHi one is a bit cheaper and more suited to a kegerator as it's quicker and easier to adjust and it can only heat or cool but not both.

Is the STC 1000 not a better option as it does both heating and cooling? Just wondering since i will eventually have to do this myself.
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Will_D on August 21, 2013, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: baconsarnie on August 21, 2013, 05:08:33 PM
Is bypassing a freezer's thermostat easy? (obviously easy if you know how...can wire a plug and a bit more beside but does it need much dismantling of the freezer etc?)
It is easy IF you know what you are doing!!

I know thats glib but its true!

The thermostat is a switch in series with the live supply to the compressor. You just need to disable the .stat by a tinny bit of rewiring.

Usually all the wires are available at the back of the fridge.

If you need help just shout

HTH
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 21, 2013, 08:02:17 PM
far easier to use a standalone project box with 2 sockets, one for heating one for cooling, no fridge wire fiddling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30TvX1Zz1-Y
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 21, 2013, 09:13:52 PM
Oh no its not :P
I have 2 fridges and I am fairly sparks aware, I wouldn't touch the thermostats on either let alone gouge it out for an STC, each fridge has different wiring  :o.
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Greg2013 on August 22, 2013, 12:30:30 PM
Ok i am going to hijack this somewhat :P I have a chest freezer (Haier) that is very under utilized currently, if i was to purchase an STC 1000 would it be a simple matter of wiring it in between the supply and the freezer to make a keezer? Would i be able to run it like this as a fermentation chamber when needed? If i run it around 12c all the time it would do as both a chamber and a keezer?
Title: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 22, 2013, 01:38:05 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on August 22, 2013, 11:30:44 AM
Oh yes it is! I've done it in 2 fridges and I'm probably going to do a third.

The majority of fridges use one make of thermostat (the rest use a different but similar type). There are only 4 wires at the thermostat: live and neutral from the mains in -- which are colour coded brown and blue, and two going back to supply the compressor, which could be any colour. The thermostat itself only acts as a switch on the live side. i.e. it has two terminals (and earth), the same as a switch.

Once you have the old thermostat physically removed, wiring in an STC is a piece of piss. JohnRM did his too, but he did a real nice job where it looks like the STC is part of the fridge.

pics of your butchered fridges please? As I am not going to hack this
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/e9ysavem.jpg)

In favour of this

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/esa2ata7.jpg)

Did I mention its portable?
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: brenmurph on August 22, 2013, 02:25:19 PM
Agree with CH three posts up :)


Its easier, simpler and effective to wire stc from a socket to a socket.......plug fridge into socket and leave fridge thermostat up full and forget about it. Use stc to control fridge...this leaves all the fridge wring alone.


How to
Use a plastic bucket & lid or big junction box, drill a hole to allow cable and thermo probe out, mount an electric socket on the bucket/ box and you have a self contained, plug in controller that can be moved to any other fridge / kegerator. U can even then use it for a boiler / electric mash tun*, just set appropriate temp.

* supject to it handling enough amps
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 22, 2013, 03:08:52 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on August 22, 2013, 02:17:15 PM
The one in the kitchen.

I know what you are saying and I saw a keezer here with it in the bottom and it was tidy, hands and knees to adjust but hey, oh no but thats not :P, sorry still not convinced, watch out for condensation in your stc there btw.
Did you consider running the wiring out and mounting on top or side wall?
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Will_D on August 22, 2013, 08:23:37 PM
Quote from: deadman1972 on August 22, 2013, 12:30:30 PM
Ok i am going to hijack this somewhat :P I have a chest freezer (Haier) that is very under utilized currently, if i was to purchase an STC 1000 would it be a simple matter of wiring it in between the supply and the freezer to make a keezer? Would i be able to run it like this as a fermentation chamber when needed? If i run it around 12c all the time it would do as both a chamber and a keezer?
Yes Deadman, you don't need to touch the wirng of a freezer. Just do as above and switch the whole yoke with an STC controller
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Greg2013 on August 22, 2013, 08:37:24 PM
Quote from: Will_D on August 22, 2013, 08:23:37 PM
Quote from: deadman1972 on August 22, 2013, 12:30:30 PM
Ok i am going to hijack this somewhat :P I have a chest freezer (Haier) that is very under utilized currently, if i was to purchase an STC 1000 would it be a simple matter of wiring it in between the supply and the freezer to make a keezer? Would i be able to run it like this as a fermentation chamber when needed? If i run it around 12c all the time it would do as both a chamber and a keezer?
Yes Deadman, you don't need to touch the wirng of a freezer. Just do as above and switch the whole yoke with an STC controller

So Will i would basically wire the stc 1000 to the supply and then plug the freezer into the stc 1000 ? Would it not harm the freezer switching on and off al the time? Sorry i know nothing about these things ???
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: johnrm on August 22, 2013, 09:08:50 PM
@DM, as for wiring, basically, yes.
Regarding switching on and off, not really, unless you keep opening and closing it.
And at that , there is a delay on the STC1000 of a minute of something before it kicks in and out.

What some people do is 'buffer' the tem cange by putting the probe in a small container of water.
This takes longer to change temp than the air about the probe.

Blunt (Where is that lad?) had a commercial Heino fridge and it had a vial of water capped off with a probe in it.
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Greg2013 on August 22, 2013, 09:15:11 PM
Quote from: johnrm on August 22, 2013, 09:08:50 PM
@DM, as for wiring, basically, yes.
Regarding switching on and off, not really, unless you keep opening and closing it.
And at that , there is a delay on the STC1000 of a minute of something before it kicks in and out.

What some people do is 'buffer' the tem cange by putting the probe in a small container of water.
This takes longer to change temp than the air about the probe.

Blunt (Where is that lad?) had a commercial Heino fridge and it had a vial of water capped off with a probe in it.

STC 1000 it is then :D
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: newToBrew on August 23, 2013, 12:04:35 AM
hey DM - get 2 they're small !! - I'll take the 2nd one from you !!!!
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Greg2013 on August 23, 2013, 12:06:39 AM
Quote from: newToBrew on August 23, 2013, 12:04:35 AM
hey DM - get 2 they're small !! - I'll take the 2nd one from you !!!!

Oh will ya now? :P
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Greg2013 on August 23, 2013, 12:16:03 AM
Is this the right one? Is it better to go for ebay.com or ebay.co.uk or do they all come from the land of flied lice ? ;D


http://www.ebay.com/itm/All-Purpose-Temperature-Controller-STC-1000-Thermostat-Aquarium-NTC-sensor-220V-/221270085784?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3384b99098
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: brenmurph on August 23, 2013, 08:56:03 AM
deadman Im bringin ur kegs down to ya tomora.

Ill bring a rex  not an stc with me and show ya the wiring / relays and so on if ya want
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: brenmurph on August 23, 2013, 08:59:20 AM
re getting these on ebay from china.

Beware about buying more than 1.. the cost between 10 and 20 euros

if u buy 2 and the cost is more than 22 euros you will get hit with 23% vat and 7 euros post office charge. U will have to pay at least a tenner extra

As most of the small china items are free shipping anyway buy one at a time. Dont buy one after the other online in quick succession as they will package the two together. Wait til one despatches and then reorder from your notification email or from ebal panel
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: newToBrew on August 23, 2013, 09:18:22 AM
Fair point been - I was just being tight and thinking of splitting postage
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Greg2013 on August 23, 2013, 10:03:23 AM
Quote from: brenmurph on August 23, 2013, 08:56:03 AM
deadman Im bringin ur kegs down to ya tomora.

Ill bring a rex  not an stc with me and show ya the wiring / relays and so on if ya want

Cheers, PM on its way.
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Greg2013 on August 23, 2013, 10:05:36 AM
Quote from: brenmurph on August 23, 2013, 08:59:20 AM
re getting these on ebay from china.

Beware about buying more than 1.. the cost between 10 and 20 euros

if u buy 2 and the cost is more than 22 euros you will get hit with 23% vat and 7 euros post office charge. U will have to pay at least a tenner extra

As most of the small china items are free shipping anyway buy one at a time. Dont buy one after the other online in quick succession as they will package the two together. Wait til one despatches and then reorder from your notification email or from ebal panel


Ok if the postage is free why will i have to pay anything ? I don't understand why if its off ebay i would be getting hit with postage charges here? ???
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: brenmurph on August 23, 2013, 10:58:23 AM
Post office charge 7 euros as a fee to collect the taxmans charge its not a postage delivery  charge ;D

any item over 22 euros inc postage from outside EU carries the above mentioned charges. Thats how it works, the revenue wants their money (23%VAT) and the post office kindly oblige the revenue and make 7 euros admin fee for themselves to collect the (maybe 3 euros tax due) just a nice way to even more tax as the post office is government owned anyway >:( :)
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Greg2013 on August 23, 2013, 11:10:43 AM
Quote from: brenmurph on August 23, 2013, 10:58:23 AM
any item over 22 euros inc postage carries the above mentioned charges. Thats how it works, the revenue wants their money (23%VAT) and the post office kindly oblige the revenue and make 7 euros admin fee for themselves to collect the (maybe 3 euros tax due) just a nice way to even more tax as the post office is government owned anyway >:( :)

Is that just from ebay or everywhere ? How do people order things from Amazon.co.uk if that's the case. I just ordered a book off there thats near 35 euro, you mean t tell me that the feckers in An Post will hold that on me and charge me extra to get whats already mine ?  :o
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: brenmurph on August 23, 2013, 11:14:07 AM
goods from outside EU pay taxes and charges. Inside the EU theres none. Amazon is Based in EU,.. Ebay sellers may ship from anywhere...usually china..be careful...just make sure ur stc or other control bits bought from china are less than 22 euros
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Danny(00833827) on August 23, 2013, 10:52:58 PM
i just finished wiring up my STC1000, twas not a difficult task - will get a pic in the morning.
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Jacob on August 24, 2013, 05:02:46 PM
Just finished wiring up mine, using video clip posted by Ciderhead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30TvX1Zz1-Y).
Took me some time to assembly all together but looks like it's working fine :)
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Danny(00833827) on August 24, 2013, 05:32:16 PM
heres what i did - had all the bits 'in stock' - had only one single socket so had used a double for heating - no problem as i can have two small heat sources in there and will only need one socket for the fridge - anyone remember what i used for the case? used to get them with 6 bottles of heino - cd cases. a little before my time but my older brother collected many of them.
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 24, 2013, 06:00:35 PM
why don't you cut out the sides and put your sockets into the wall of the crate?
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 24, 2013, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 24, 2013, 05:02:46 PM
Just finished wiring up mine, using video clip posted by Ciderhead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30TvX1Zz1-Y).
Took me some time to assembly all together but looks like it's working fine :)

picture please Jacob?
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Jacob on August 24, 2013, 06:50:36 PM
Quote from: Ciderhead on August 24, 2013, 06:30:19 PM
picture please Jacob?
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 24, 2013, 06:53:32 PM
very fancy ;D
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Jacob on August 24, 2013, 06:59:54 PM
Going to test it with first lager in the nearest future :)

Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 24, 2013, 07:25:44 PM
So 9-12 for ferment, up to 15-16 and then half a degree a day down to 2?


TT
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Jacob on August 24, 2013, 07:31:54 PM
Is diacetyl rest really so important? Which yeast will u recommend? Thinking about Vienna lager with WLP830 ...
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 24, 2013, 07:38:51 PM
I know exactly what you are saying and a lot don't bother, I have just done it always and touch wood, never had an issue, I see Adam was also recommending it on another post recently as well
Are you thinking of going straight down to lagering temps?

Any of the 800 series are good, I have tried them all.

Only problem about lager it takes an age to do well!!


TT
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Jacob on August 24, 2013, 07:45:39 PM
I know that it will take some time and yes, was thinking about going straight down to lagering temps.
Here's my plan: brew it, add yeast, wait 12h, put it in the fridge at 10C, primary for 2 weeks, transfer to secondary and lager for 5-6 weeks.
After that, but it into cornies and force carb it. Does that sounds ok to you?
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Danny(00833827) on August 24, 2013, 08:19:33 PM
Quote from: Ciderhead on August 24, 2013, 06:00:35 PM
why don't you cut out the sides and put your sockets into the wall of the crate?

i just cable tied the sockets onto it as the bottom of the cd case as its not a solid piece of plastic so things are held on really sturdy.

I thought it was great till i saw Jacob's  - now its sh1t!  :'(
Title: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 24, 2013, 09:05:30 PM
Jacob your wort and starter temp need to be at same point at 10 degrees  important that you don't "hot start" lager yeast or have thermal shock with temp difference of greater than 5 degrees.
Big blast 90 sec of 02 to get your 2-3l starter going.


TT
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Ciderhead on August 24, 2013, 09:10:31 PM

Quote from: 00833827 on August 24, 2013, 08:19:33 PM
Quote from: Ciderhead on August 24, 2013, 06:00:35 PM
why don't you cut out the sides and put your sockets into the wall of the crate?

i just cable tied the sockets onto it as the bottom of the cd case as its not a solid piece of plastic so things are held on really sturdy.

I thought it was great till i saw Jacob's  - now its sh1t!  :'(

Mounted on the frame beside the fridge(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/25/ha2uvegy.jpg)


TT
Title: Re: Temperature control system for Keezer- suggestions please!
Post by: Danny(00833827) on August 24, 2013, 11:20:53 PM
now its even worse - IM just going outside to have it destroyed