Ok so I am thinking I need 60 secs at 1L/min for avg wort, 1040-1060 and 90-120secs for big beers which I rarely do.
I am now reading "when oxygenating a higher-gravity wort, you need higher oxygen levels - roughly proportionate to the amount of yeast. However, it's usually recommended to reoxygenate after the yeast have time for a cell division, This will result in a cleaner-flavored beer. Obviously, if you want your beer to have more off-flavors (specifically acetaldehyde and diacetyl), then a second dose of oxygen is counter productive"
I am thinking or re-inject another RIS I have to do, anybody any thoughts as to an optimum time to do that? How long does initial cell division take?
I think I found the answer
When about aerating really high-gravity beers? It's simply stated in "Yeast" that with beers with OGs higher than 1.092, aeration methods other than pure oxygen simply won't do. For all beers with an OG above 1.083, aerate TWICE. That is, before pitching the yeast, and then another dose of oxygen 12 to 18 hours after pitching (this allows the yeast one cell division). This second dose was shown in a study to help speed up fermentation speed and attenuation.
Anybody any thoughts?
Makes perfect sense to my. I can't think of a reason not to re-oxygenate. Is it a good idea for a starter too?
I read 'Yeast' by the whitelabs boys too. 12-18hrs in add another dose of oxygen. I don't have an oxygen stone, so I was going to do it with gravity. It's not ideal (the book has a chart on this kind of thing, and agitation aeration is piss-poor compared to an oxygen stone) but it's better than nothing.
Unless you like acetaldehyde or diacetyl, of course.
I wonder how many barrel-RIS brewers did the 12hr oxygen thing?
this is the oxygen stone I got.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/280866354728?var=580089020402&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Get yourself down to your local aquarium suppliers, one of their aeration stones is better than nothing
Just doing the Wicklow top up ris with recirculating mash and it will get 2 shots of O2, one 90 sec burst pre yeast and a second 12 hours later
Ill be like a b.llox if if doesn't kick off at 90mph and fully finish out as expected ha ha
TT
Isn't this effectively 'double dropping'? At least I think that's what the Brits call it.
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? Never heard of that before, well not in relation to beer anyways :-)
TT
Look up Marstons double drop. The beer gets dropped into a second vessel 12 hours in.
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90mph
In 5 years of brewing never had one take off so fast, on the left in the carboy at 6 last night with 1 Litre starter, other one RIS with 2 litre, 5 hours later.
Only difference was the 02
I suspect they are gonna blow ???
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/26/abe6a8y4.jpg)
TT
Quote from: Eoin on August 25, 2013, 10:41:17 PM
Isn't this effectively 'double dropping'? At least I think that's what the Brits call it.
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Well I didn't know that, sounds kind of like an aggressive early secondary.
Double dropping, also known as the dropping system is a brewing method used for the production of ales. During the early 20th century it was the most popular method of clearing trub (inactive yeast and excess, staling and haze-forming protein from the malted barley) during fermentation for English ales. It is less commonly used today as it requires additional brewing vessels in a 2-tier system.[16]
During the double dropping process the wort (newly brewed, fermenting beer) is first fermented for a period of time before being transferred, under gravity or by other means, into a lower vessel where it continues fermentation. The dropping process has two primary effects on the beer being fermented: the trub that has settled during the first period of fermentation will be left behind, leaving a cleaner beer and a cleaner yeast to crop from the beer for the next fermentation; the second effect is the aeration of the wort, which results in healthy clean yeast growth, and in certain circumstances butterscotch flavours from the production of diacetyl.[17][18]
Breweries using the double dropping process include Wychwood Brewery who contract brew Brakspear branded beers,[17] and Flack Manor.[19] Marston's use the name Double Drop for one of their beers as they use the related brewing method of the Burton Union system.[20] Wychwood transfers the wort the morning after the day fermentation started - typically about 16 hours later. This process originally took place at the Brakspear brewery in Henley. When Brakspear moved to the Refresh UK's brewery in Witney, a new brewery was built to include the original double dropping system.[21] Brakspear claim that some of the flavour common to its beer is due to a combination of its very old complex multi-strain yeast and the dropping method which encourages it to produce the butterscotch-flavoured compound diacetyl.
Ok so double drop without taking it off the yeast and trub.
Not a secondary per se.
Huh?
"the trub that has settled during the first period of fermentation will be left behind"
Is the beer on the left WLP007 by any chance?
Quote from: Ciderhead on August 26, 2013, 01:13:35 PM
Huh?
"the trub that has settled during the first period of fermentation will be left behind"
Read mine in reverse to what you have read. I phrased it very badly.
nope good guess tho
its 001 which i brought back from the dead and clearly its not dead
Yeast orgy
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/26/e5adavy6.jpg)
My 004 on the right 14 hours after carboying has just blown off ???
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/26/uja5a2yq.jpg)
Quote from: Eoin on August 26, 2013, 01:55:49 PM
Quote from: Ciderhead on August 26, 2013, 01:13:35 PM
Huh?
"the trub that has settled during the first period of fermentation will be left behind"
Read mine in reverse to what you have read. I phrased it very badly.
gotcha
And as Ciderheads blow off looks like it was going to need a blowoff of its own Ciderhead was beginning to question the merits of oxygenating with O2 FFS.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/27/anebe9y3.jpg)
TT
Skimming, you mean like washing?
I have a plan for the 001 alright, but after that RIS which is starting at 1095, the 004 will be a basket case.
Anyway to get back on topic it was 60 and 90 secs shots this time, next time I'm cutting back.
TT
Breweries who use conicals can't skim so they tend to take a pitch from the bottom. Not so fussy apparently, according to a friend who works in a big brewery in America.
Kaboom, I lost 4-5 litres from the RIS in total this morning all through the blow off and made a lovely bubblebath in my fridge, at 9.8% it was never going to be a chugger and normal service has now resumed so its not a disaster but seriously folks never had fermentation like that before so there is something in this O2 aeration.
Too much maybe O2 maybe?
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Was thinking that but I have had blow off before just not as active to start. I also had good starters on these 2 as well.
Even with it set at 1L a minute I was being conservative giving them 60 and 90 secs respectively
Next standard brew i will give my 1040-1050's only 45 secs.
I am wondering also is there more oxygen going into solution with a stone which is 0.5.
Anyways I will know for the next one I do which is in a couple of weeks time.
Maybe you need more head space in your fermentors? Im using 30 litre kegs with 20 litres in each. Thats 10 litres of headspace & my 1.067 IPAs krausen is still breaching the carboy cap. (aerated with pure 02 - 2 lpm for 30 secs). That jar of yeast was a jar of starsan. Defo gona start top cropping if this is gona be par for the course with 02 aerated beers.
(http://i.imgur.com/KzzQEnIl.jpg)
* The keg has asked for his face to be disguised to protect his identity.
Any benefits to a slower cooler start? Fridge is at 18c currently. Whats the core temp inside the fermentor I wonder?
Im not bothered about the quick start. Im not losing beer through the blow off like CH is. Im 2c under the lower limit for wlp001 already. Surely Im in no danger of off flavours?
White labs give very narrow temp windows, the gits, but fridge set to 19 will be bumped to 20 tomorrow.
Both were at 19 to start.
I was measuring the temps with Infrared beam that Brenmurph pointed me to on ebay(one of the best things I ever bought thanks Bren)
The RIS 2.5 above where it should be, the Pale is 1.5 above where it should be.
I think strong fermentations are better than chuggers on my RIS certainly.
It really depends what you are measuring it off, nothing shiny.
twice a year my stc's, willhi, infrared and mercury's all have a step bath in the HLT from 20 to 80 and the only one I have had to constantly feck with is one of the STCs by about a degree in the 70-80 degree range usually.
Quote from: Hop Bomb on August 28, 2013, 01:26:08 PM
Im not bothered about the quick start. Im not losing beer through the blow off like CH is. Im 2c under the lower limit for wlp001 already. Surely Im in no danger of off flavours?
think you are right, just now putting measures on sightglass, not enough head space.