National Homebrew Club Ireland

General Discussions => Introductions => Topic started by: beer novice on September 04, 2013, 07:29:59 AM

Title: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 04, 2013, 07:29:59 AM
Hi,i am new to this,i am in the middle of doing research to open a small micro brewery and was wondering if anyone can help,i need to get some bottles made to use for market research.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: DEMPSEY on September 04, 2013, 09:20:39 AM
Your a bit vague on your request. If you want bottled beer for to sell on the market for your research then its a commercial brewery you need to talk to. If its for just giving away than you need to know what style of beer it is you are after. Welcome to the forum BTW :)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: BrewCity on September 04, 2013, 09:29:31 AM
You can join us on Beer Ireland, a group supporting brewing startups in Ireland. Our members will have plenty of advice for you.
http://beerireland.ie
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Will_D on September 04, 2013, 11:15:10 AM
Like most moulded products the raw material is cheap but the mould is very expensive.

I am sure that the minimum order for a custom blow moulded bottle would be in the tens of thousands to compare with existing production prices.

Unless YOU paid the tens of thousand tool making cost for a 100 bottles or so!

Why the unique bottle shape?
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: brenmurph on September 04, 2013, 11:32:29 AM
agree ...Rich in Tanks UK said it was imposible to justify moulding the upper tap as all the tooling needs to be remade just for that. So the conicals Im buying have a smooth moulded-in stainless bottom tap and I have to fit the upper tap myself and just be carefull with sanitation of this upper tap fitting.

Re bottles not sure why one would want custom made bottles? is any small brewery worldwide doing that?  There are numerous 'nice' bottles on the open market different shapes and sizes
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Shane Phelan on September 04, 2013, 11:43:42 AM
In context I assume "bottles made" means generic bottles filled with beer and labelled rather than being moulded!

Do you have type of beer in mind that you want in the bottles?
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: matthewdick23 on September 04, 2013, 02:09:20 PM
Quote from: BrewCity on September 04, 2013, 09:29:31 AM
You can join us on Beer Ireland, a group supporting brewing startups in Ireland. Our members will have plenty of advice for you.
http://beerireland.ie

hi there- do you work with startups in the north?
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 04, 2013, 02:24:14 PM
Sorry my request is vague,I am looking to get some sample beers made which I can bottle and use for market research.Any help or advice is much appreciated.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Dunkel on September 04, 2013, 02:34:18 PM
Depending upon quantity of bottles that you need, your best bet may be to approach one of the micros and get them to do it for you; that beerireland website looks good.
BTW, are you in Wexford Town?
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: BrewCity on September 04, 2013, 05:28:19 PM
Quote from: matthewdick23 on September 04, 2013, 02:09:20 PM
Quote from: BrewCity on September 04, 2013, 09:29:31 AM
You can join us on Beer Ireland, a group supporting brewing startups in Ireland. Our members will have plenty of advice for you.
http://beerireland.ie

hi there- do you work with startups in the north?

We're happy to have anyone in Ireland (and beyond) participate in our group, we just might not be able to help much regarding advice on legal/excise issues in NI as our brewers only have experience in the ROI.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Billythegypsy on September 04, 2013, 05:45:45 PM
Quote from: beer novice on September 04, 2013, 02:24:14 PM
Sorry my request is vague,I am looking to get some sample beers made which I can bottle and use for market research.Any help or advice is much appreciated.

So.... why don't you just make them and bottle them?

You know, like the other beers you've made.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Greg2013 on September 04, 2013, 06:46:31 PM
Beernovice don't take this the wrong way but not for nothing but you are not giving folks much information to work with tbh. What type of market research and for what purpose would be useful information to put forward. Folks here will help you as much as they can but they need information to work with. ;D
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 04, 2013, 09:29:25 PM
Hi deadman1972 ,i want to start a microbrewery,i need help to brew some products which i can use to judge peoples reactions.I am just at the learning stage  and need someone with experience to help.I want to know what i am going to brew before i go any further.I am in the middle of sorting out funding and have sourced equipment etc....

Hi Billthegypsy, not sure what you mean,i have never brewed before hence my request.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Greg2013 on September 04, 2013, 09:54:33 PM
Quote from: beer novice on September 04, 2013, 09:29:25 PM

Hi Billthegypsy, not sure what you mean,i have never brewed before hence my request.

:o :o :o
Again don't take this the wrong way, i am a novice myself, however do you not think you are jumping the gun a bit trying to start a microbrewery when you have never brewed in your life? Though i wish you well in your endeavour IMHO this is a bit like a baby trying to drive a Ferrari before he has learned to walk.

This is only my opinion but you would be far better learning the basics of how to brew at home(home brewer) first before opening a brewery. Remember you will be brewing beer customers are paying to drink,you dont want to poison people because you don't know your yeast from your grain  ;)

If that seems a little harsh it is but i would hate to see a fledgling brewery go down for the want of getting the basics right and to be fair you can't really expect people to brew beer for you out of their own time,money,effort for a start up company when you don't know how to do it yourself. ;D
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Metattron on September 04, 2013, 10:03:14 PM
Unless you're looking to hire a brewer?  Form a line lads, no pushing!  :D
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Greg2013 on September 04, 2013, 10:14:05 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on September 04, 2013, 10:06:02 PM
You don't need to know how to brew, you just need to know about beer. You can pay someone to brew, the same as you can pay someone to do the books etc.

Would have to disagree with you there Tube, how can you claim to know about beer without knowing how to basics of brewing even on a home brew scale?
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: delzep on September 04, 2013, 10:22:53 PM
Anyone fancy buying me a few pints for 'research' purposes?
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Rossa on September 04, 2013, 10:25:32 PM
There may be some revenue issues if you  were paying someone to brew beer not to mention health and safety even if it is a pilot batch.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: BrewCity on September 04, 2013, 10:37:20 PM
There are plenty of cases of business people who start a brewery and hire in a brewer. Dingle Brewery is a good example.

You might just want to flesh out your plan a bit:
Do you already have a recipe?
If not, are you going to hire someone to create a recipe for you?
Are you looking to sell these initial bottles of beer, or are you going to give free samples to participants in a tasting session? The answer to this question will affect what channels you must go through. To sell beer you will need to contact a brewery who has a manufacturing licence and the beer must be distributed by someone with a distributors licence, and there are excise bonds... in short there is a bit of red tape. (Personally I would make sure you have a drinkable beer first before worrying about marketing, labels, and producing large volumes for sale).
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: irish_goat on September 04, 2013, 11:08:24 PM
You're absolutely mental to be sourcing equipment when you don't even know what you're going to be brewing or how. 

Hiring a brewer is grand but you should at least know a little about beer, brewing and the industry itself. There are much easier ways to make money if that's your goal.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: irish_goat on September 04, 2013, 11:25:21 PM
They won't get grant money without a business plan and they won't have a business plan without an idea of what beer they're going to make.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: mr hoppy on September 04, 2013, 11:26:59 PM
I think the glass ware is probably the key.

Once you've got that down the bottles should be easy. ;)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Covey on September 04, 2013, 11:28:02 PM
Great Idea for a TY project alright. ::)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: irish_goat on September 04, 2013, 11:29:24 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on September 04, 2013, 11:26:44 PM
I reckon you could do up a business plan without knowing how to brew though.

Without knowing how to brew yes, you can simply state that you're going to hire a brewer for X number of euros a year but without knowing what beer you're making you can hardly make predictions on sales.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Greg2013 on September 04, 2013, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on September 04, 2013, 11:26:44 PM
I reckon you could do up a business plan without knowing how to brew though.

No doubt but as home/craft brewers should we really be encouraging opening up a brewery when the person has no interest in brewing ? Looking at it purely as a money maker without the love of the craft coming first is what has brewing fubar in the first place and why craft beer is like hens teeth compared to the big boys IMHO.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Ciderhead on September 05, 2013, 03:00:32 AM
Quote from: irish_goat on September 04, 2013, 11:08:24 PM
You're absolutely mental to be sourcing equipment when you don't even know what you're going to be brewing or how. 

Hiring a brewer is grand but you should at least know a little about beer, brewing and the industry itself. There are much easier ways to make money if that's your goal.

+1
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: RichC on September 05, 2013, 05:37:29 AM

Quote from: Il Tubo on September 04, 2013, 11:55:42 PMI don't really mind who made it, micro, macro, Michael O'Leary, or Ian Paisley... if it's good I'll drink it.
Ye wouldn't really drink a beer made by paisley, would you?
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: mr hoppy on September 05, 2013, 07:52:20 AM
Funny thing about this thread is, if OP knows nothing about the sector and wants to do market research on craft beers they should really just themselves down to the RDS this weekend.

They might even get their bottles as well.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 05, 2013, 08:13:56 AM
Again thank you and no offence taken deadman,just because i cant brew doesn't mean i don't have an understanding about running a business or marketing a product.I don't except anyone to waste their time or money,i am of course willing to pay someone to do this and in the process learn.Of course i also intend doing a course and yes have bought a home brew kit to experiment with,which i intend to start using this weekend.I just want to get some brew made and to get an understanding of whats involved. thank you for all your comments good and bad.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: brenmurph on September 05, 2013, 09:50:01 AM
get up to any of our (south kildare) many and multiple brew days you will learn a lot...theys why we do it... otherwise go to any other brew day that pops up in other regions
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Greg2013 on September 05, 2013, 09:58:24 AM
To be fair i never said anything about you not being able to run a business, however tbh if the "business" is the first thing that pops into your head and if you can't brew yourself then i don't know why you are opening a brewery of any size ? That's putting the cart before the horse IMHO that's all i was saying, look i am not PC and i never will be, i genuinely mean no offence to you personally. I wish you all the best but until you can brew yourself well you know how i feel.

Then again i can't brew a good fart most days so what do i know. ;D
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: brenmurph on September 05, 2013, 01:56:37 PM
ben Dunne knows feck all about fitness and couldnt give a fart about his own fitness and hes a chain of gyms all over the palce :)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: DEMPSEY on September 05, 2013, 04:51:56 PM
The Ben Dunne comparison is a good one. He is not exactly the picture of a fit body but he invested in a gym business and employs people to work in it while he gets on with running the business side. All businesses need good management and a micro brewery is no exception.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: LordEoin on September 05, 2013, 05:33:39 PM
@beernovice - First of all, best of luck with your business idea. I hope that it works out for you and turns a profit.
Second, best of luck with your new homebrew kit. You'll amazed at how much it will teach you, and how quickly you 'll learn. Learning's easy when the payoff is 40pints of beer!

Paying a home brewer to brew a batch for you doesn't sit too well with the tax-man, but you could probably offer something like paying for all of the required materials (grains, hops, etc) in exchange for someone doing the brewing with you on their equipment (and keeping half the batch).

Otherwise, consider attending a brew-day so that you can chat about how it's done, what people like/hate, different ingredients, equipment etc.

I'd be no good to you on the all-grain side of things but if you have any questions about your home kit and the likes feel free to poke me a PM or post in the relevant forum section :)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on September 05, 2013, 05:34:52 PM
There is a difference between starting a business with basic capital, and buying into a market with loads of capital.

Most current microbreweries are starting with one or two individuals. There is enough work in brewing, that both will need to be hands on.

If you are well capitalised, you can start by employing people day one that know what they are doing, while you concentrate on business stuff like sales channels, marketing and distribution.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on September 05, 2013, 05:50:37 PM
@beernovice - beer is changing. All of the interesting growth is in the small producers who can react to changes in the market, or are otherwise brewing for quality.

The big beer businesses are struggling to a degree - most are working hard just to tread water. The business they are selling into is declining - pubs are heavily hit, and the market is starting to realise that the yellow fizz is a commodity, dressed up as something prestigious with billion dollar advertising.

The days when you could launch a new beverage with loads of marketing are numbered. The big boys are working harder than ever at that (see the lukewarm reception to the #LetThereBeBeer campaign).

When we talk about the Craft Beer market, we are talking about products that are barely marketed at all. They are sold to a clientele that already know about the products and are willing to try new things, and are sold in venues where these people congregate. The dominating feature of a Craft Brewery, is that the beer comes first - you achieve your brand through excellent product.

There are a few breweries out there trying to *fake* being Craft Beer breweries. Which is working for some - you see it a bit in the UK.

It is getting easier and easier to brew small, on smaller kit, or even on someone elses kit in collaborations.

Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Greg2013 on September 05, 2013, 06:38:30 PM
Tube,Dempsey,Brenmurph i don't know whether ye are taking the mickey or have just missed my point or both? Ben Dunne was already a millionaire businessman so to be fair there is really no comparison with what the OP is saying. If this person wants to just run a business and pay someone else to do the brewing then fair enough,then he is a businessman not a brewer, if he wants to be an actual brewer then he better learn yeast from extract FIRST.  ::)

The Ferrari for those of you who did not get it was my piss poor analogy of me trying to say he is going about it arse about face IMHO.Business peop-le only interested in business and money and have no love or desire to gain experience in craft brewing ,now where have we seen that before hmmmm ? AB,Molson Coors get the point now? ;)

He needs to brew himself first and gain experience first and forget about opening a brewery until he does that and get steeped in the whole craft brew scene through sites like this in order to gain a sense of what is needed to bring the craft brew scene forward in this country, this is what we should be encouraging IMHO and i have seen only one or two on this post so far doing that tbh. :)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: mr hoppy on September 05, 2013, 07:56:12 PM
The only thing about that is, you don't need to brew to know about beer - think about some one like Michael Jackson (the beer writer).
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Billythegypsy on September 05, 2013, 08:49:27 PM
Quote from: mr happy on September 05, 2013, 07:56:12 PM
The only thing about that is, you don't need to brew to know about beer - think about some one like Michael Jackson (the beer writer).

Done.

Now I know what I'm going to be watching for the next few hours.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Greg2013 on September 05, 2013, 10:15:04 PM
Quote from: mr happy on September 05, 2013, 07:56:12 PM
The only thing about that is, you don't need to brew to know about beer - think about some one like Michael Jackson (the beer writer).

Sorry but in my opinion you do,theory is all well and good as well as "book learning" but until you actually do it yourself you don't know crap IMHO. ;)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: mr hoppy on September 05, 2013, 10:46:32 PM
I've never seen his TV show or thought to look for it on youtube. Cool.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 06, 2013, 07:47:41 AM
Thanks Lord Eoin for your comments ,as he as suggested is there someone out there willing to brew me a batch or two on the terms he has mentioned. TheSumofallBeers I  fully agree the product is very important and having a great product will lead to building a brand.I believe that unless a person is passionate about what they are doing you will never created a great product nor will it get sold.

I am only learning and want to learn hence why i joined this forum,deadman if anyone starts a business purely to make money and this is the sole driving force it doesn't always work,there has to be an interest in the business but a passion to provide a good product at a good price.Money isn't my motivation although it helps,as someone pointed out early there are easier businesses to get involved in.

I am looking forward to attending the RDS,hopefully i don't have a problem parking my Ferrari :)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Bubbles on September 06, 2013, 09:51:23 AM
Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on September 05, 2013, 05:50:37 PMthe market is starting to realise that the yellow fizz is a commodity, dressed up as something prestigious with billion dollar advertising.

The dominating feature of a Craft Brewery, is that the beer comes first - you achieve your brand through excellent product.

Excellent post!
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Billythegypsy on September 06, 2013, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: beer novice on September 06, 2013, 07:47:41 AM
Thanks Lord Eoin for your comments ,as he as suggested is there someone out there willing to brew me a batch or two on the terms he has mentioned. TheSumofallBeers I  fully agree the product is very important and having a great product will lead to building a brand.I believe that unless a person is passionate about what they are doing you will never created a great product nor will it get sold.

I am only learning and want to learn hence why i joined this forum,deadman if anyone starts a business purely to make money and this is the sole driving force it doesn't always work,there has to be an interest in the business but a passion to provide a good product at a good price.Money isn't my motivation although it helps,as someone pointed out early there are easier businesses to get involved in.

I am looking forward to attending the RDS,hopefully i don't have a problem parking my Ferrari :)


Making beer aside.

What are you liking at the moment? Are you a hop head? A IIPA or Imperial Stout kind of guy? Or do you like the cask conditioned stuff?

What do you find boring or done consistently badly? Do you like saisons or lambics? there's none being made here.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Greg2013 on September 06, 2013, 06:40:21 PM
Quote from: beer novice on September 06, 2013, 07:47:41 AM
Thanks Lord Eoin for your comments ,as he as suggested is there someone out there willing to brew me a batch or two on the terms he has mentioned. TheSumofallBeers I  fully agree the product is very important and having a great product will lead to building a brand.I believe that unless a person is passionate about what they are doing you will never created a great product nor will it get sold.

I am only learning and want to learn hence why i joined this forum,deadman if anyone starts a business purely to make money and this is the sole driving force it doesn't always work,there has to be an interest in the business but a passion to provide a good product at a good price.Money isn't my motivation although it helps,as someone pointed out early there are easier businesses to get involved in.

I am looking forward to attending the RDS,hopefully i don't have a problem parking my Ferrari :)

Touche i deserved that :P Sorry for being pissy, looks like i picked you up wrong, i thought you were a fly by night chancer because you were on about opening up a brewery and you had not even home brewed yet and you were asking others to brew you free beer as i thought at the time.

Sorry about that, not all the lads here are cranky like me, welcome to the home brew scene and best of luck. :D
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 06, 2013, 08:47:03 PM
Deadman,thanks and look forward to more chats.
Billythegyspy I recently tried Old engine oil,which I really enjoyed.i am willing to try anything and today I quickly ran in to tesco and got  Youngs double chocolate.I havent tried any Belguim beers but I am looking forward to it,anything you would recommend?
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Greg2013 on September 06, 2013, 10:50:02 PM
Beernovice what beers do you like drinking yourself ? Stay away from largers initially would be my advice as a fellow novice that has made and continues to make mistakes. Try homebrewing a stout/porter or even an English brown ale, they tend to be easier to get good results for beginners like us and are more tolerant of temperature fluctuations.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 06, 2013, 11:14:21 PM
What type of stout/porter or English brown ale would you recommend and where to buy deadman,I cant wait to get started :)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: johnrm on September 06, 2013, 11:45:52 PM
@novicebrewer, Are you for real?
Sinking money in the beer industry with (seemingly) no knowledge of the product or production.
What have your business interests been to date?
Be aware this is a very public place, so a hint will suffice.

Title: Re: Market research
Post by: mr hoppy on September 06, 2013, 11:47:14 PM
Are you calling troll Johnrm?

BTW, thanks a million billythegypsy, just watched the Burgundies of Belgium and the Bohemian Connection on youtube. Brilliant stuff!
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: johnrm on September 06, 2013, 11:59:06 PM
Edited previous post mr_happy.

Not Troll, curious.
Minimal info given, loads of contributions from the NHC crew.
He/She has had little exposure to Beer styles and has no knowledge of the process.
Looking for advice on English Ales and spells Belgium wrong?
I think the Tax man is sniffing.
:-P
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: mr hoppy on September 07, 2013, 09:45:31 AM
That would give a different meaning to "market research"!
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 07, 2013, 10:29:49 AM
No I am not the tax man,john I must be allowed the odd spelling mistake when using an IPhone to reply.I think my name lets people know I know very little about beer,hence as I have said in past posts, I am here to learn.Not really sure what my past has got to do with anything,but if it helps I am not a mass murderer :)

I am looking for someone to help me out,that's all nothing more nothing less.If someone can that's great if not that's ok to,I thought I would try here first.

I must admit its a good forum with plenty of advice and help for anyone learning or wanting to improve and share their knowledge.

Title: Re: Market research
Post by: johnrm on September 07, 2013, 11:03:18 AM
You are dead right, there's lots of info on here and people are more than willing to help and offer advice and support in good faith.
A good start would be to read this thread in its entirety, as much direction as you need for the moment  has been given already.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: LordEoin on September 07, 2013, 12:35:48 PM
Quote from: beer novice on September 07, 2013, 10:29:49 AM
I am looking for someone to help me out,that's all nothing more nothing less.
First things first. What part of the country are you in?

If you live near a brewday or someone just brewing a batch, maybe you can tag along and help out grinding grain etc. No better way to learn about brewing than by being there.

Also, once we know where you are maybe someone can recommend a good offlicense near by and some quality beers. Tesco have a pretty wide range of beers, but I find they can be pretty hit-or-miss unless you know what you're looking for. (eg. that double choc stout looks pretty promising on the shelf, but I didn't like the beer much at all)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Ciderhead on September 07, 2013, 12:51:17 PM
Beer novice you are looking for professional input from amateur brewers, we are all here to help amateurs progress their hobby and in some cases our members go on to work in the industry or set up their own breweries.
Could I suggest politely that you stop talking in generalities at this point and ask specific questions which we can help you with.
This thread has become wishy washy and distracts our contributors from helping other brewing members who are prepared to spell out exactly their problems and we can help directly.


Sent from my Fukushima Daiichi Geiger counter
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: DEMPSEY on September 07, 2013, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: Ciderhead on September 07, 2013, 12:51:17 PM
Beer novice you are looking for professional input from amateur brewers, we are all here to help amateurs progress their hobby and in some cases our members go on to work in the industry or set up their own breweries.
Could I suggest politely that you stop talking in generalities at this point and ask specific questions which we can help you with.
This thread has become wishy washy and distracts our contributors from helping other brewing members who are prepared to spell out exactly their problems and we can help directly.


Sent from my Fukushima Daiichi Geiger counter
+1 and I want one of those Fukushima Daiichi Geiger counter  :)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 07, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
You are of course right ciderhead,I am based in Offaly if there is a club near me please let me know,or any good off licences that supply a good selection let me know also.i am off to the RDS now and looking forward to a good evening.Once I have this kit opened and ready to start I will be back for help :)
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: johnrm on September 07, 2013, 07:23:43 PM
+1 CH

@beernovice, there is a Midlands board. Offaly is Midlands unless it's moved recently...
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: LordEoin on September 07, 2013, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: beer novice on September 07, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
Once I have this kit opened and ready to start I will be back for help :)
This might be a good place to start:
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,669.0.html (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,669.0.html)

enjoy tho RDS
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 08, 2013, 06:13:47 PM
IL Turbo,I was at the stand last night,not there today,but you can get in touch by email.Enjoyed the RDS,great to see such a huge crowd buying Irish made beer and great to see some many Irish companies supplying it.I bought The Good Craft Brewery Guide by Tim O Rourke and he was a pleasure to speak with,the book is good reading.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on September 11, 2013, 02:28:02 PM
Quote from: beer novice on September 06, 2013, 07:47:41 AM
TheSumofallBeers I  fully agree the product is very important and having a great product will lead to building a brand.I believe that unless a person is passionate about what they are doing you will never created a great product nor will it get sold.

A quote I read recently from someone in the beer press/microbrew went something like this:
"Passion is easy to fake. If you want to make good beer, you have to *like* beer."

It is certainly possible to build a business without knowing personally how to make the product. There are many examples of this, inside the brewing industry and out. But I dont think you can make a good product without knowing what a good product feels/tastes/looks like.

To make a good beer, you have to know what a good beer tastes like, otherwise you will just make beers without any feel for where they place in the market.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on September 11, 2013, 02:38:25 PM
Quote from: beer novice on September 06, 2013, 11:14:21 PM
What type of stout/porter or English brown ale would you recommend and where to buy deadman,I cant wait to get started :)

You might be able to get Sam Smiths Nut Brown Ale, which is a really good northern english brown. It might be easier to get some US Brown Ales which have their own take on the style.

As for stouts and porters, you should be able to get some really good examples of both from around the world. Sierra Nevada Stout/Porter on bottles and Anchor Steam Porter should be easy to get. You may be able to get a Brooklyn Imperial Stout (it will hit your wallet) that is divine. For good english styles, Fullers London Porter is probably the best. Meantime stout, and their stronger London Porter may also be easy to get, and are some of my favourites here. Sam Smiths do a Taddy Porter that is worth a taste. Also, try and sample Harviestoun (Scotland) Ola Dubh and Old Engine Oil.

As for Belgian styles, get yourself over to a Belgian beerfestival, or just holiday in belgium. Beer is really cheap over there by comparison with import prices. Strong too, so pick small glasses.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on September 11, 2013, 02:48:50 PM
Quote from: beer novice on September 07, 2013, 10:29:49 AM
I am looking for someone to help me out,that's all nothing more nothing less.If someone can that's great if not that's ok to,I thought I would try here first.

If you want to learn, head along to one of the brew meets. With luck, there should be a NHC meetup near you, hopefully close enough that you dont have to drive.

At LAB (London) we regularly get commercial brewers coming in to talk to us. Commercial brewing puts a limit on how daring you can be with a recipe, which is something that home brewers dont have. So pro brewers always like to keep tabs on what home brewers are doing - to see what is working.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: mr hoppy on September 12, 2013, 12:49:40 AM
I love the Sam Smith beers as well, but I've only ever seen the organic chocolate stout for sale in Ireland, and that was in a health food shop!
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 12, 2013, 10:26:03 AM
Sumofallbeers,thanks you and I very much look forward to trying all the  beers mention.I have to disagree about passion being easy faked and if someone does this nothing great will every happen.By the way I never said I didnt like beer/stout I just didn't know how it was made :D Again thank you for your recommendations once I have tried a few I will be back to let you know how I got on.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: irish_goat on September 12, 2013, 10:35:19 AM
What beers do you currently drink?
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on September 12, 2013, 04:20:27 PM
Quote from: mr happy on September 12, 2013, 12:49:40 AM
I love the Sam Smith beers as well, but I've only ever seen the organic chocolate stout for sale in Ireland, and that was in a health food shop!

LOL! Can't say its one of my favourites though. The chocolate is really overpowering. IMO chocolate stout is the hardest stout adjunct/variant to get right.

The Nut Brown Ale and Oatmeal stout are the best Sam Smith beers. I like their Pale Ale too, but its pricey by comparison with the competition (excellent pale ales of many styles are all over the place in London, but it is hard to reliably get stout or porter).
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: LordEoin on September 12, 2013, 08:03:53 PM
agreed. too much chocolate can make a right mess. especially after a few months when other flavours have mellowed down...
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: johnrm on September 12, 2013, 08:24:03 PM
I was suppin Brew Dog Punk IPA and Brooklyn Lager at the weekend.
great beers.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: LordEoin on September 13, 2013, 01:41:22 AM
yeah, i had a few punk IPA the other week and loved it.
The hardcore IPA was a bit too much though
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: mr hoppy on September 13, 2013, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: LordEoin on September 13, 2013, 01:41:22 AM
The hardcore IPA was a bit too much though

The cough syrup school of DIPAs!

Halcyon, or that To Ol one are way better IMHO.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: johnrm on September 13, 2013, 12:00:52 PM
Cantillon oude geuze - Worth sampling, I came close once.  :(
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: delzep on September 13, 2013, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: mr happy on September 13, 2013, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: LordEoin on September 13, 2013, 01:41:22 AM
The hardcore IPA was a bit too much though

The cough syrup school of DIPAs!



A bargain at just €9 a bottle in the laurels in Clondalkin...
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on September 13, 2013, 02:33:08 PM
Quote from: beer novice on September 12, 2013, 10:26:03 AMI have to disagree about passion being easy faked and if someone does this nothing great will every happen.

Well lets just say that passion for the higher arts in beer making is easily destroyed by what you actually do on a day to day basis - clean, bottle, and carry heavy crap. There is different things to be passionate about, like the end result itself and the culture around it, but passion alone won't carry you through as a brewer. Bull headed stubborn-ness and OCD on the other hand  ;)

Quote
By the way I never said I didnt like beer/stout I just didn't know how it was made :D

I wasn't the one who said you didn't like it (I was paraphrasing another person). My interpretation would be something like this:

If you want to make good beer, you have to like beer. That means a bit more than 'I drink beer on a night out' or 'I like Stout/Erdinger/Miller/London Pride/West Coast IPAs'. You need a palate that can appreciate and enjoy beer, regardless of brand, origin or style, on its own merits. You need to be able to split out your personal preference from your appreciation.

Beer snobbery is a trap. Appreciate well-made no-nonsense stouts, bitters and lagers, as well as the rare stuff like trappist beers, Saisons, Imperial Stouts, and new world fruity pale ales.

Competing against the incumbents (BudCoollers, Heinoberg) is a trap. They make light unobjectionable beers and sell to a captive mass market whose palate is in a kind of stockholm syndrome.

Once you have a frame of reference for good beer, you will then know where your beer falls in that ranking, and can set aside any paternal love and be dispassionately critical.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: LordEoin on September 13, 2013, 05:45:40 PM
Wow, this introduction went off on a tangent!  ;D
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: DEMPSEY on September 13, 2013, 06:21:50 PM
Quote from: LordEoin on September 13, 2013, 05:45:40 PM
Wow, this introduction went off on a tangent!  ;D
yeah its great aint it :P.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: johnrm on September 13, 2013, 07:23:38 PM
So, tangentially speaking, I'm going to the pub tonight. First time in aaaaages, unfortunately the best the pub does is a bad draft Hooegarden or bottled Erdinger.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: LordEoin on September 13, 2013, 07:47:45 PM
sneak a naggan in your handbag! ::)

I was surprised in Supervalu that they had an IPA, a Caledonian Ale, and a Bitter.
So i'm gonna fire some venison in the pan, make a nice red wine sauce, then settle down to a good film.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Dodge on September 13, 2013, 09:00:46 PM
I'm being tortured by having to watch emmerdale with the wife. At least I can drown my pain with a nice cold pint of home brewed pilsner ;D
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: mr hoppy on September 13, 2013, 09:24:19 PM
Quote from: johnrm on September 13, 2013, 07:23:38 PM
So, tangentially speaking, I'm going to the pub tonight. First time in aaaaages, unfortunately the best the pub does is a bad draft Hooegarden or bottled Erdinger.

No Beamish? :D
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Ciderhead on September 13, 2013, 10:04:06 PM
Somebody please tell me why this thread has run to 7 pages?
Surely this is beyond an introduction.


Sent from my Fukushima Daiichi Geiger counter
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: delzep on September 13, 2013, 10:14:05 PM
9?

on the sauce? :D
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: DEMPSEY on September 13, 2013, 10:44:23 PM
6's and 9"s ciderhead is thinking of sex :P
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Ciderhead on September 13, 2013, 10:46:33 PM
You feckers aren't helping its 7 now
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: delzep on September 13, 2013, 10:51:31 PM
7??  ???
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: johnrm on September 14, 2013, 12:23:36 AM
7 of 9, of course. Like, duh! :-*
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: LordEoin on September 14, 2013, 01:21:00 AM
I wonder though... if you 'got to know' 7of9 (or any other borg) while she was connected to the collective, would the rest of the collective experience it too?? that's a lot of pressure!
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: DEMPSEY on September 14, 2013, 02:07:52 AM
In keeping with the best traditions of thread hi jacking I lurve 7 of 9 makes a want to be a borg. Would a borg be a good brewer. :-\
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: LordEoin on September 14, 2013, 02:34:29 AM
I think the question would be: Would THE borg be a good brewer?
i'd imagine that being assimilated would be like being plugged into google without all that pesky typing and reading.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: johnrm on September 14, 2013, 08:26:36 AM
Yup, all that typing and reading. Isn't the internet crap, really? Keeping everyone away from beer.
When I go to do a brew, the first thing I do is go on the computer. For something so wholesome, that's just wrong.
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: LordEoin on September 14, 2013, 01:46:45 PM
yeah, nothing like a bit of hardcore prawnography (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5FHKONvfrY) to get you in the mood for a brewday...
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: Ciderhead on September 14, 2013, 03:33:28 PM
You've lost it ;D
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: beer novice on September 15, 2013, 08:44:43 PM
Sumofallbeers,I bow to your wisdom and knowledge,is your real name Yoda the Jedi.
Went to my local off licence,selection wasn't great came home with Fullers London Porter,Porterhouse Plain Porter and a bottle of Kentucky Bourbon Barrel Ale,all of which I really enjoyed.i came across a really good website which has a huge selection of craft beers and can deliver anywhere in Ireland,it's called the beerclub.ie

Dodge,I find Emmerdale painful my advice buy a second TV :)

Where did the word Borg come from....
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: DEMPSEY on September 15, 2013, 11:16:08 PM
You must know 7 0f 9
Title: Re: Market research
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on September 16, 2013, 12:28:56 AM
Quote from: beer novice on September 15, 2013, 08:44:43 PM
Sumofallbeers,I bow to your wisdom and knowledge,is your real name Yoda the Jedi.

I aint that good - struggling to stop my beers getting infected atm.

Have been fortunate to meet people who really know their stuff, and who are very helpful. Whatever wisdom I have is second hand. But I do know good beer.

Quote
Went to my local off licence,selection wasn't great came home with Fullers London Porter,Porterhouse Plain Porter and a bottle of Kentucky Bourbon Barrel Ale,all of which I really enjoyed.i came across a really good website which has a huge selection of craft beers and can deliver anywhere in Ireland,it's called the beerclub.ie

I take it you mean http://thebeerclub.ie (http://thebeerclub.ie) ?

If you want tips on the beers there, try Hilden Brewery Twisted Hop, which has won awards (N. Irl). The german section is good, and I am really partial to Flensburger (keep the bottles - flip tops are expensive and scarce for home brewers) also try Schneider Weisse Tap X.

Tips by location (all beers I have personally tasted unless otherwise mentioned)

UK:
- Meantime IPA
- Fullers 1845 & Bengal Lancer
- Adnams Innovation
- Brewdog Dogma
- Tim Taylor Landlord
- Harviestoun Ola Dubh & Old Engine Oil & Bitter and Twisted (they dont have Shiehallion)
- Wychwood Hobgoblin & Goliath & King Goblin
- Black Sheep
- Batemans Victory, Dark Lord & Combined Harvest

Wouldnt rate as highly, but also good:
- Marstons Old Empire, Old Speckled Hen

Haven't tried, but would seek them out myself
- Fullers Double Stout & India Pale Ale
- Robinsons Ginger Tom & Chocolate Tom (Old Tom is a classic)

US:
- Sierra Nevada Porter, Pale Ale
- Goose Island IPA
- brooklyn Lager & Dark Chocolate Stout
- Anchor Steam & liberty ale & Porter

(TBH I would try most of their US options)

Belgium:
I have tried many of these here, and most are world class beers. Some beer styles may not appeal, and belgium tends to favour stronger, full flavoured beers.

Beers that are especially of note (for palate training purposes)
- Duvel  -an easy to like belgian blonde
- Orval (my favourite belgian beer - a king of flavour, and not too strong that it will land you on your back)
- Rochefort 6/8/10 - strong flavoured & strong alcohol, how to do it right
- Saison Dupont (there are no other saisons on their site, and this is fab, a saison is a really special light beer)

Haven't gone through the Australian beers much besides the Coopers Sparkling (which didnt appeal to me).

I haven't rated any lagers or wheat beers. Its not because there is poor choice on the site (they actually have a really good spread), but ales are more interesting in general.

So if you want to go through that site, there is more than enough to get you going.