I do partial boils. This makes it hard to make big IPAs and also get the OG right, because the leaf hops sponge up a lot of wort.
So I'm wondering: what are the consequences of not removing the cold break i.e. draining all the liquid in the pot into the fermenter?
I've read that it ca "lead to off flavor including DMS, Sulfur, and Fusel Alcohols" but that seems vague. How high are these risks?
And if I really need to remove the cold break (and because squeezing hops releases tannins) how else can I get all the wort out of a leafy boil?
are u using a hop bag? Muslin or hop filter or just letting run around your boiler loose?
Squeeze the hops just don't go mad with it. Tannin extraction from squeezing is a bit of a myth.
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I always give the hop bag a good squeez especially with late hopping. Dont want to leave precious and expensive hop juice in there.
Never had any hint of tanning by squeezin either bittering hop bag or late hop bag
Quote from: SlugTrap on September 11, 2013, 06:37:08 PM
I do partial boils. This makes it hard to make big IPAs and also get the OG right, because the leaf hops sponge up a lot of wort.
And if I really need to remove the cold break (and because squeezing hops releases tannins) how else can I get all the wort out of a leafy boil?
Use hop bags. Then fish the boil hops out with whatever you have to hand (straining spoon, mash paddle, or a sieve).
I have squeezed hop bags and never released tannins that I could taste (and I made some hoppy beers). Have you a reference for the tannin extraction?
As for the cold break, I would prefer to have it out than in, but I am not awfully fussy about removing all of it. It could interfere with sedimentation of yeasts that flocculate well, and could get disturbed during racking or dry hopping.
Quote from: Eoin on September 11, 2013, 07:02:45 PM
Tannin extraction from squeezing is a bit of a myth.
so is the claimed tannin extraction by boiling grain...dosent happen... its to do with ph :) hence u can boil grain in decoction mashing.
Hi Tube
Just read your post and it flagged something that i read on the wiki on kegging. It mentions that given enough time in a cold environment all beers will clear. Is this correct or is a beer containing hop break going to end up in cloudy beer irrespective of how long it is kept for?
Shanna
Quote from: Il Tubo on September 11, 2013, 06:51:55 PM
From personal experience it's cloudy beer you'll most likely get.
Are you squeezing the hop bag just after the boil finishes or I are you waiting till it cools? I am apprehensive about squeezing hop bags with bare hands due to risk of introducing something into the cooled wort. On the other hand what is an effective way to squeeze a bag of hops containing scalding hot liquid?
Shanna
Quote from: brenmurph on September 11, 2013, 07:05:13 PM
I always give the hop bag a good squeez especially with late hopping Dont want to leave precious and expensive hop juice in there.
Never had any hint of tanning by squeezin either bittering hop bag or late hop bag
Quote from: Shanna on September 11, 2013, 08:59:14 PM
Are you squeezing the hop bag just after the boil finishes or I are you waiting till it cools? I am apprehensive about squeezing hop bags with bare hands due to risk of introducing something into the cooled wort. On the other hand what is an effective way to squeeze a bag of hops containing scalding hot liquid?
Shanna
Quote from: brenmurph on September 11, 2013, 07:05:13 PM
I always give the hop bag a good squeez especially with late hopping Dont want to leave precious and expensive hop juice in there.
Never had any hint of tanning by squeezin either bittering hop bag or late hop bag
sanitised metal tongs?
I have a stainless scoopy thing with holes in it from the kitchen and astainless kitchen sieve that fits nicely a hop bag, the hop bag sits in the sieve and the scoopy thing with holes in it squishes the bag :)
I suspend the bag without squeezing over the boiler for 10 mins whilst chiller is started that drains 90% of it.
Quote from: Shanna on September 11, 2013, 08:59:14 PM
On the other hand what is an effective way to squeeze a bag of hops containing scalding hot liquid?
In a robust sieve or colander, squeeze it with your mash paddle, ladle or whatever comes to hand.
You can always "sparge" your hop bag as well, grab it out with tongs, put it in a metal colander and hold it over the kettle while pouring boiling water through it. Obviously you can only do this if you don't mind an extra half litre of water in your brew.
Just add enough liquid that you don't need the break material to hit your batch size.
Putting Irish moss in to give you clear wort and then ending up with the break material in the fv is a little pointless but it happens most folk unless they are very careful.
Why do ye use hop bags? I though one of the main benefits of using whole leaf hops is that it acts as a filter bed for your break material.
Quote from: Hop Bomb on September 12, 2013, 09:32:00 AM
Why do ye use hop bags? I though one of the main benefits of using whole leaf hops is that it acts as a filter bed for your break material.
I don't. Is that true, though - will some break material get caught up in the hops?
Thanks for all the good responses. The consensus seemed to be for squeezing, I may have to get over my dislike for bags.
the bags mean you can remove the hops cleanly and this makes far less trub to deal with. A really good rolling boil, blast chill will facilitate good settling of the white gunk ( mainly protein matter) which will settle well if a good rolling boil is done.
Concensus in the best textbooks suggests about hour and a half boil, After 150 mashes in the past year I get better and denser trub ( mainly white protein gunk) settlement.
An important note Ive come across recently is:
get a really good boil going for at least 10 minutes. Im not a chemistry geek, however this has not been discussed on the forum as far as I can see, we need this 10 minute boil before adding hops. What seems to happen is that protein settles / coagulates in the presence of tannin, there is always some tannin from the grain. The tannin and protein connect together and become denarurised just like the white of an egg when u cook it. This is heavy and drops out really easily and you see the very white mass on the bottom of your kettle when it settles.
I prefer hop bags because it prevents clogging of pipes as well as minimising trub. The less lumpy stuff like hop flowers on the bottom the more dense the white stuff is and the easier you can drop it off.
Another key point is that if u add hops in the first 10 minutes of the boil the hop oils and other stuff latches on to the protein and you lose hop flavour, if hops latch on to the protein then tannins cant so you may end up with less flavour and more tannins.
hops this explains and gives some rational for hop bags.
Heres my source and very reputable source it is if you wanna follow it up and read more on this topic. http://bavarianbrewerytech.com/news/boilhops.htm
I must give that 10 min boil before 1st addition a try. I always skim off the hot break on top before 1st additions. My hops go commando though. I have capacity issues right now with deadspace/gunk v boiler size as Im doing double batches but Im buying a 100 ltr pot from Padraic so Il be able to increase my batch volume a wee bit so I can leave that beer at the bottom of the kettle behind.
Scraping gunk off may be a mistake. that frothy gunk is the protein / tannin matrix.. u need it to allow tannin and protein to do their chemistry. I dont know but it seems that modern sources suggest let it dissapear itself and it will drop out at end of boil. Old books sometimes suggested skimming the froth.
I skim the froth when I remember to do it. Last time...err port got in the way and I forgot.
I don't really notice a difference and I'm going by the German way of doing it, they say skim all you can, so I try to do this.
Herms will allow you clean hot break :)
Sent from my Fukushima Daiichi Geiger counter
do ye know if all german brewers skim or just some german styles?
I think all do. Not 100°/. about weizen though.
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