I know one or two people are going to be whinging unhappy about this idea, but I was thinking that maybe when we get something in for review that it's handed over to a review panel. The review panel bossman would be instrumental in delivering said product to reviewer, and the only criteria for being on the panel would be that you have proven writing skills and NHC staying power. Essentially you can opt in to the panel by writing something for the NHC.
Thoughts?
Seems like a good idea, provided the reviews are honest and open, not hidden in the member's only area.
However it might be best to have the supplier post it directly to the chosen reviewer to avoid delays. reviewer could pay the fiver shipping or something.
I was thinking of also starting a sticky in the Kit section that links to all the various kit reviews that have been posted.
The 2 ideas would go well together :)
Indeedy, but I think it should happen on the forum, then the thread gets condensed to a frontpage review.
My reason behind this is that reviewing a kit can take a few months from start to finish (ie brewday, secondary, bottling, conditioning, drinking day)
Also, there are usually some lovely hidden tips and tricks that pop up randomly in the life of a thread.
Whinge Alert :P
I have no issue with your reviews btw in fact that one on the mill was pretty good.
Clearly I and others are not arsed doing them as we have enough paperwork in our lives already and homebrewing is an escape from that, but the nasty evil Irish begrudery comes out of me(and others) when I see you or a panel or whatever you want to call it getting HB stuff stuff for free and to be honest I would prefer if the supplier sold his wares directly to us and we asked the awkward questions as I used to see on Beoir and then he/she gave a discount on a few or raffled once a quarter with a compulsory review by the winner of the raffle or otherwise winner pays for it.
The retailers to the NHC have a direct target audience of 500 members and unlike other homebrew forums have the run of the place free of charge, and of course there are obvious advantages to allow them best meet our requirements but there are also very obvious conflicts of interest that need to be addressed, this is one of those.
We have own own path to tread, that line becomes very grey when we are now doing the marketing and that review information is being used by the retailers in their own marketing efforts as well.
I also find it difficult to comment on something that a fellow NHC member reviewed as they are going to defend it to the hilt as they have it foc.
I would like to hear from the retailers on this as to what they would like to see from the NHC the best structure for delivery of their promos?
Quote from: Ciderhead on September 23, 2013, 08:36:16 PM
The retailers to the NHC have a direct target audience of 500 members and unlike other homebrew forums have the run of the place free of charge, and of course there are obvious advantages to allow them best meet our requirements but there are also very obvious conflicts of interest that need to be addressed, this is one of those.
Everyone has the right to come on here and do as they will free of charge. The only difference is that these guys sell us stuff and occasionally give us stuff to test. I see no problem with that.
Quote from: Ciderhead on September 23, 2013, 08:36:16 PM
We have own own path to tread, that line becomes very grey when we are now doing the marketing and that review information is being used by the retailers in their own marketing efforts as well.
I also find it difficult to comment on something that a fellow NHC member reviewed as they are going to defend it to the hilt as they have it foc.
Screw being politically correct. If a review is false, call it out.
The beauty of being a forum/community is that there will always be conflicting opinions.
These different opinions can occasionally turn into minor disputes but eventually just get left as differences of opinions.
Obviously someone who gets some kit for free will see it through slightly 'rose tinted glasses', and that's fine.
By the way, remember that people also review stuff that they bought themselves.
For example, I'm currently reviewing a kit I bought and it will probably be uploaded in the kit section once it has cooled enough to pitch the yeast.
I don't think it would be much different to a review i'd do if i got it FOC.
At the end of the day, a review is a review. if it's honest it's useful for both the retailer and the community, otherwise it's not.
How about any kit review has to include a score based on tasting at a meetup? That way the reviewer can still think it's great because he/she brewed it and it was foc but anyone at the meetup will be honest.
Yay from me too.
If the club gets a product for free, it's only fair to the supplier that it goes to someone that will do a well written review.
If a product is below par there is a polite way of pointing out it's flaws rather than just saying "this is crap". Besides, I don't think we'll be receiving any sub-standard products to review, that wouldn't make sense for the retailer.
This is a public forum so you have to be honest in a review, else someone will call your bluff.
The freebies for review is kinda weird. The companies dont donate anything to the club or the forum to help with its running but they can post their ads in the for sale section all the time, send people free stuff for review which then gets the front page generating more advertising & clicks to their website. All for a tiny 5% discount.
If you take the brewing network for example (granted they have 20,000 podcast listeners so have more weight when it comes to sponsorship) Their advertisers pay them to advertise & also offer 10% off to all their members.
Why dont ye just do banner ads & have advertisers pay. At least we'd get something that benefits the whole club.
Quote from: irish_goat on September 25, 2013, 09:53:14 AM
How about any kit review has to include a score based on tasting at a meetup? That way the reviewer can still think it's great because he/she brewed it and it was foc but anyone at the meetup will be honest.
Yes, a second opinion would be good. A meet-up would be best but this mightn't suit everyone. If there was a review panel then maybe the reviewer could send a couple of bottles to others in the panel?
wow.. we're complicating things again...
Just remember, there are more reviews done on paid kits than freebies.
Why not just leave it simple
- kits get reviewed
- reviews get linked in sticky
- then there's a nice handy resource for anyone looking to try a new kit, and a source of frontpage material.
Freebies are a different matter. The more I read, the more I think we should just stick to raffling them off to paid members and having the retailer mail them directly to the winner. The retailer gets a link to his product in the review, members a chance to win some freebies, the forums gets more decent content, the publishing team can condense review threads to a front-page article if they want.
Winners all round!
The idea of the panel organizing getting the freebies, deciding who gets them, organizing delivery, following up on reviews, ensuring club meet tastings go ahead etc seems like an unnecessary effort.
A more realistic scope would be that a panel would facilitate the raffle, inform the winner how to claim their prize, follows up to make sure a review gets done or the person gets blacklisted from future raffles. I'm sure that no paid club member would like to be on a club blacklist.
The idea of a panel is still a good one, but lets not over complicate things.
Does this happen every time a kit is sent out? I get the impression it's not happened at least once. Hence the rule sought
Sent using a complex system of semaphore and ninjas.
A kit not getting reviewed should be pretty uncommon if only paid members are eligible.
I'd prefer that we weren't reviewing shops kits etc. As stated above they are gaining more from the relationship than we are!
They're going to get reviewed regardless of where they came from.
How about we move this thread to the members' area and out of general viewing?
If it doesn't disqualify me from entering raffles.
I like me bingo and me raffles!
Can someone send me a blichmann auto sparge to review please. ;D
Grand Job.
I've put some time into making this simple, quick and fair for everyone involved.
Here's what I was thinking about freebies/raffles, any further feedback or comments are welcome.
I would also love to hear the thoughts of any homebrew suppliers
Eligibility
- Full members only
- Must have at some stage written a decent review/guide/article/wiki/how-to/etc for the forums or frontpage.
- Must have all required equipment (eg. an all-grain kit will require an all-grain setup)
- For delivery reasons, must be resident of The Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland.
Disqualification
- If anyone fails to review a product they received FOC, or does an obviously sub-standard review for the sake of getting a freebie, they are blacklisted from all future raffles until the review is completed, or they pay the cost of the product to the supplier.
Administration
- If someone wants to provide a product for review, PM me and I'll start a raffle on the appropriate section.
- Winners will be chosen at random from eligible/interested members
- Supplier ships directly to the winner. Cutting out the middleman will get the product to review fastest and ease strain on the NHC express
- In return they will get the product reviewed honestly within a reasonable timeframe, and the review will contain a thank you and a direct link to the product on their site
- Where possible, helpful reviews may be adapted for the frontpage.
Expectation
- product reviewed honestly within a reasonable timeframe, and the review will contain a thank you and a direct link to the product on their store
- The subject should begin with the tag [Review]
- Products should be reviewed as 'standard', with as little alteration as possible
- Reviews should be honest and constructive
- Post any follow-up comments, tasting notes, etc. Collect and post feedback you get from others (eg from swaps, friends, club meets)
Those look a fine set of guidlines.
well Done!
+1 nice work Eoin.
Sent using a complex system of semaphore and ninjas.
You might have noticed that I've kicked off a round of raffles with 1 Liquid Kit, 1 Extract Kit and 1 All-Grain Kit.
A big thanks to HomeBrewWest and GeterBrewed for their generosity.
There won't always be this concentration of freebies going around, this is just to kick things off :)
Best of luck to everyone who enters!
For anyone who's currently not eligible because they've never written a review or guide, get cracking and write something.
- Review your favourite piece of equipment, you favourite beer kit, your favourite beer.
- Write a guide on how to build or use something brewing related.
- Submit an article for use on the frontpage.
It doesn't really matter what you do so long as you demonstrate that you have the ability to write something legible, helpful and honest :)
For anyone that's currently not eligible because they're not a full member, Become a Member (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,2541.0.html) it's only a tenner for the year and gives you discounts from NHC affiliates (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,2551.0.html)
I'm assusing that if an article that has been written and saved in the wordpress account thing but hasn't been published yet by whoever does that, then that counts as being eligible?
There was a bit of controversy yesterday about the above rules required to enter a raffle. Personally I think the rules are good but I would like to see more member's names in the pot. It's not fair that the same bollix's are winning the free beer all the time ::)
Yesterday, when the raffle was announced, the list filled up in a few hours. It usually takes a few days to get 5 names on the list. The rules are turning a lot of people off putting their names down. The main requirement for getting a free product should be that you write a review.
There are 10 beer kits up for grabs at the moment. So what do you think of loosening the rules a bit?
Could we let all full members enter the raffles? Then if they win, and don't meet the above requirements, they must agree to do a review within a certain deadline? If they miss the deadline they would be given a forfeit or something? Make a donation to the club to the value of the product or kick Bishop Brennan up the arse??
Quote from: Tubomyces on January 17, 2014, 09:26:24 AM
It's very easy to write a review of something relevant like the craft beer you had last night, and I think it's a very low barrier to entry.
I agree, but it's still turning people off! But if they got something for free, they might be more excited about writing the review?
It is easy to write a simple beer review. There are so many beer blogs out there, you could copy and paste one together in a few minutes. Then add a photo! Most people won't bother because they don't have to.
I think they'd be more inclined to write a review if they got something FOC, and were given a deadline? Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt?
I don't see any reason to lower the bar.
The raffles were only posted last night and there are already enough entries to cover the reviews.
Because there are relevant criteria it filters out people who enter because "feck it, i like free stuff and I'll just write three or four lines after".
What's the benefit of having 100 people enter? None, it just disappoints 90 people.
If people want to have free-for-all raffles, that's fine. Go source products, post a raffle, and work out distribution.
For now, I have an ongoing dialogue with homebrewwest, homebrewcompany and geterbrewed.
They've all been very generous to the club and I'm not going to disappoint them with sub-standard reviews.
Quote from: LordEoin on January 17, 2014, 10:25:56 AM
For now, I have an ongoing dialogue with homebrewwest, homebrewcompany and geterbrewed.
They've all been very generous to the club and I'm not going to disappoint them with sub-standard reviews.
Touché!
Quote from: Tubomyces on January 17, 2014, 10:26:52 AM
To enter a raffle you have to buy a ticket first...
Isn't that the membership fee?
How can we encourage newbies to write a review of a product when they can't even enter the raffle?
Are these products not aimed at beginners? Would their advice not be welcomed by other newbies?
From the outside it looks like free stuff for the lads. That is something we must consider.
Quote from: Tubomyces on January 17, 2014, 02:45:08 PM
Quote from: Rossa on January 17, 2014, 02:41:56 PM
How can we encourage newbies to write a review of a product when they can't even enter the raffle?
The idea is they show they can write a review, by reviewing a craft beer or something else relevant that they have already. It's a very low bar.
I think craft beer reviews are more for our friends across the road!
Whether they can write or not is surely fairly irrelevant as it's not a novel they are embarking upon!
That they want to do the review should be more to the point I would have thought. That person may find an aptitude for it that they hadn't thought they had.
There does need to be a certain criteria but as alluded to perhaps the rules don't need to be so cast in stone.
After all someone could start another bloody poll!!
Lads,
I appreciate that we dont want people chucking names in and getting stuff and not bothering to review but I think the current system is a little exclusionary towards older members (like meself!).
I think a 'slight' amendment should be ..
- On winning you undertake the responsibility of reviewing the product on the website within 10 weeks.
Failure to complete this review will automatically exclude you from all future raffles.
This is no reflection on the current system, which is a sh*t load better than the old 'first come, first served' - which was rubbish, it just sometimes things need a little tweak.
Most people start on kit brews before moving on to extract and/or all grain, so a review of a kit they have brewed should be handy enough to do
Quote from: Partridge9 on January 17, 2014, 03:31:19 PM
I think a 'slight' amendment should be ..
- On winning you undertake the responsibility of reviewing the product on the website within 10 weeks.
Failure to complete this review will automatically exclude you from all future raffles.
That's already in there.
Expectation
- product reviewed honestly within a reasonable timeframe, and the review will contain a thank you and a direct link to the product on their store
AND
Disqualification
- If anyone does a runner with a product they received FOC they are blacklisted from all future freebies, and when possible they pay the cost of the product to the supplier.
Very good - I think that checks a fair few boxes in my book.
Don't worry, a lot of thought and effort has gone into this already and it's pretty solid :)
Hi there folks,
I've been at this for nearly a year now and due to time constraints and a lot going on here i think it's time to hand the raffle/review system over to someone else.
A list of the current 39 completed reviews and 10 incoming reviews can be found HERE (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,4026.0.html) - sourced from both raffles and brewers' personal beer/wine/cider supplies.
I'll continue to follow-up on the current pending reviews, but I'm looking for someone who would like to take ownership of all future raffles and reviews.
Anyone interested in stepping up?
Cheers,
Eoin :)