Looking to put together my first lager recipe.
I have some lager malt, saaz and some brewferm lager yeast and some w-34/70.
Thoughts on something simple to start with....?
Big boils. :o
http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/12/14/pilsner-lager-recipes-beer-styles/
You'd need more malt but Oktoberfest is pretty forgiving as lager stylers go. That's what I did for the first couple of lagers I did. The grain bill is a little more complicated in that you'd need munich malt but that means there's more to hide behind!
If you've not read How to Brew (http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10.html), or something similar already it is definitely worth checking out the chapter on lager brewing first. Although, he's not reliable relationship between termperature and lagering time.
QuoteAlthough, he's not reliable relationship between termperature and lagering time.
:-? ??
So 100% Lager malt is going to be like... budweiser?
I'm also considering a lager in the near future and my main worry is having little or no control over the temperature whatsoever.
Will it turn out drinkable if the temperature fluctuates in the 14+ Degrees region?
Ideal lagering temps are 9-12 range depending on yeast, San Fran 810 is closer to ale temps.
as its a long ferment risks off-flavours, I have done various lagers in non fridge controlled conditions, in what I thought was ok, but they all had one problem or another.
A really good blonde ale tastes better than a poor lager anyday
I have 25kg Whole Lager Malt.
Unused Crankenstein.
STC1000 controlled Fridge.
Working on a recipe :)
Lol same here
QuoteI have 25kg Whole Lager Malt.
Unused Crankenstein.
STC1000 controlled Fridge.
Working on a recipe :)
With beersmith you have no excuse ;D
Sorry Johnrm, forgot to re-read, :-[ basically Palmer says that the higher the temp you lager at the shorter you need to lager for - which is complete rubbish: a month to two months at 0 to 3 degrees is your only man.
Other thing about lager malt is that a 90 minute boil is a good idea as it tends to produce more DMS - unless you like boiled vegetable flavoured beer.
Would definitely agree that unless you are decoction mashing some carapils, munich or vienna would help.
Yeast is really important and big, even huge starters help. Some lager yeasts are more forgiving than others -WLP German bock yeast is easy to use and the South German lager yeast is also supposed to pretty good. I love WLP800, but a 4 week primary isn't for everyone.
That's true Shane, but it's got it's good points as well. For me personally, it let me short circuit the whole kit thing and move straight to brewing the sort of extract SNPA knock-off I was after. I will admit its taken four years of lurking on Jim's to get over some of the dafter stuff that Amercian homebrewers recite as if it were gospel.
Mind if you think Palmer is a pain in the ass you should check out Greg Noonan (http://www.amazon.com/New-Brewing-Lager-Beer-Comprehensive/dp/0937381829). The way he tell's it every beer I've ever brewed should be in a toxic waste dump. ;D
About half way down this article you will see different temp profiles
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers
I am doing a simple lager tomorrow that looks like piss for my brother as he likes stella ::)
4 Ingredients!
not mentioned below are the 2 packets of W34-70
The temp profile is 12.5 and then after 14 days up to 15.6 for Diacetyl rest and then down to 2 over 30 Days.
Brewed for drinking in May/June :o
Diacetyl Rests are probably unecessary with todays yeasts but force of habbit ...
Recipe: Johns Stella Clone TYPE: All Grain
Style: Vienna Lager
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 6.5 EBC SRM RANGE: 19.7-31.5 EBC
IBU: 24.8 IBUs Tinseth IBU RANGE: 18.0-30.0 IBUs
OG: 1.047 SG OG RANGE: 1.046-1.052 SG
FG: 1.009 SG FG RANGE: 1.010-1.014 SG
BU:GU: 0.530 Calories: 427.1 kcal/l Est ABV: 4.9 %
EE%: 72.00 % Batch: 22.00 l Boil: 28.96 l BT: 60 Mins
---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------
Total Grain Weight: 4.60 kg Total Hops: 66.00 g oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.40 ------
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.60 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 100.0 %
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 12.80 l of water at 75.0 C 65.6 C 75 min
---SPARGE PROCESS---
>>>>>>>>>>-RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS & VERIFY GRAIN/MLT TEMPS: 6.0 C/6.0 C
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD BOIL CHEMICALS BEFORE FWH
Fly sparge with 21.57 l water at 75.6 C
---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.039 SG Est OG: 1.047 SG
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
50.00 g Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 2 23.3 IBUs
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 3 -
16.00 g Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 4 1.5 IBUs
---NOTES------------------------------------
02-Feb 12.5
15-Feb 15.6
16-Feb 15.1
17-Feb 14.7
18-Feb 14.2
19-Feb 13.8
20-Feb 13.3
21-Feb 12.9
22-Feb 12.4
23-Feb 12.0
24-Feb 11.5
25-Feb 11.1
26-Feb 10.6
27-Feb 10.2
28-Feb 9.7
01-Mar 9.3
02-Mar 8.8
03-Mar 8.4
04-Mar 7.9
05-Mar 7.4
06-Mar 7.0
07-Mar 6.5
08-Mar 6.1
09-Mar 5.6
10-Mar 5.2
11-Mar 4.7
12-Mar 4.3
13-Mar 3.8
14-Mar 3.4
15-Mar 2.9
16-Mar 2.5
17-Mar 2.0
2 packs of W34/70. Yikes! That doesn't come cheap. That's one group buy I'd definitely be interested in if I ever give up on the wlp800!
Quote2 packs of W34/70. Yikes! That doesn't come cheap. That's one group buy I'd definitely be interested in if I ever give up on the wlp800!
yep, but one won't cut it, its the only dry lager yeast I use, it claims to be but its still not as good as my wlp830
I hear you on the one pack. Is it much different to wlp830, I'd heard they were the same yeast?
If you've not tried it wlp800 is brilliant if you're prepared to be (very) patient and it seems to be pretty hardy. I've repitched it 5 times since last April with good results.
I tried it years ago under less than ideal conditions and it turned out shite, what did I expect!,
You've incentivised for me to given it a go again.
I was looking to do an urquell clone at some point in any case
What's it like for diacetyl? Ever had wurthers original?
There's a reason Bohemian Pilsener is about the only style where the BJCP say diacetyl is acceptable. It was only when I home brewed with WLP800 that I realised how much diacetyl flavour PU has. It just won't go away even if you use the right temps and do a d-rest.
I bottle condition and PU fermented beers are literally undrinkable (versus green ale) because of the diacetyl from the carbonation sugar for weeks after bottling, but it's like the real ale of lager yeast and if you give it time (lots of time) it's hardy and it makes tasty beer.
And I thought it was just me :o
I guess you don't much like PU then?
Seriously though, it's not like the German stuff but after drinking homebrewed Czech lager for awhile I bought a bottle of Spaten and I had to pour to "over-boiled brocolli" beer down the drain. :(
I must of been one of those ejits that was tasting it but didn't notice.
I am going to get a bottle tomorrow and remind myself.
I never noticed either til I was making it meself and I had a PU when I was out for a few beers with work and I thought, feck that tastes like my homebrew and now I know why.
;D ;D
Do you do 60 or 90 min boils?
90. No question.
Although 90 minutes is nothing when you are looking at the same freakin beer with the same krausen in your beer fridge saying "I'm not going anywhere" 5 weeks later.
But not 90 min hop additions right?
QuoteAlthough 90 minutes is nothing when you are looking at the same freakin beer with the same krausen in your beer fridge saying "I'm not going anywhere" 5 weeks later.
Do you not secondary? :o
yep, after that, for a month or two. Thank god for ale yeasts!
I'm not joking wlp800 takes for ever. I usually do a d-rest with it - more to get it to finish than anything, but whereas with wlp833 I had a beer in the bottle after 6 weeks, 3 months is more the norm for wlp800. To be fair though I reckon it's (probably?) worth it.
Oh Christ I better do my homework with it so
For a pils no hops until 60 mins and then as Jamil says Saaz, Saaz, Saaz, Saaz, -> 40 IBUs, say for 20l @3.5% AA -> 50g @ 60 mins & 60g @ 30 mins, 25g @ 15 min & 25g more @ 0 mins. Lager for hop lovers - and Saaz are dirt cheap now thanks to hipster hops!
For a dark lager like this (http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages/business-tools/publications/the-new-brewer/online-extras/show?title=style-spotlight-bohemian-dunkel) 90 mins+ is ok ->
Just reading about 90 day conditioning at Budvar with Wlp800 :o
Probably why even though I keep bees I don't do mead!
I had no idea what I was signing up for, Ciderhead! The first time I used it I was looking at it a month later going what the f@@@ has gone wrong, but it was fine. Though, it really helps to warm it up a bit after 3 or 4 weeks if it's in no rush.
The upside is that my yeast ranching is seriously crappy but wlp800 seems to come good every time (unlike some others).
The last brew i did i conditioned for 35 days, but the previous one was for 2 months. I reckon it definitely makes a difference and given that all commercial lagers are conditioned for about 5 minutes it really is a cool homebrew thing to do, but you'd want to have something else on tap.
I knew that shark would be circling smelling blood ;D
I will be and I've some I top cropped a while back if you're interested.
Duuuuuuuuh, duh...
Duuuuuuuuh, duh...
Dududududududududududududu...
Duduluduhhhhhhhhh!!!
I have found this site very good as a source.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers
QuoteI have found this site very good as a source.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers
Great minds think alike Dempsey post #16 above ;)
Missed that,but hey it is a good reference source for Lagering and is worth saying it twice :)
:) [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
QuoteQuoteI will be and I've some I top cropped a while back if you're interested.
Scooore!
I don't have any yeast to give you in exchange at the moment that I would trust, tho I will soon have wlp858 to share?
That's no problem. I'd be confident enough to reuse what I have myself but I'd definitely do a starter first to be sure.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI have found this site very good as a source.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers
Great minds think alike Dempsey post #16 above ;)
Far too much verbage. If I wanted to read War & Peace I would...
We have a wiki too. Someone needs to write an article that doesn't make your finger tips go numb.
Lager and pilsner conditioning is a complex business
He's pretty good on water testing as well and I thought his decoction mashing videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5u_nJhMD4w) are pretty helpful.