National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Equipment & Chemicals => Topic started by: baphomite51 on October 06, 2013, 08:54:22 PM

Title: gas burner/stoves
Post by: baphomite51 on October 06, 2013, 08:54:22 PM
well iv done about three brews now, two BIAB, one extract but im having trouble keeping my 33L pot on the boil iv even droped down to a 5 litre batch and its still not the best i have to keep the lid on it otherwise it simmers, i was looking at gas burners but they all seem to be week on this side of the water compared to the americans best i could find was 50,000 BTU or 12.5 Kw. so what is everyone using to get a good boil going
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Will_D on October 06, 2013, 09:51:05 PM
If you can't get a good boil with 12.5 kW then you must have a serious problem, like:

500 Litre boiler!


A 2.5 kW electric element will give a good rolling boil on an insulated 30 l boiler with 5 gallons of wort.

2 x 2.5 kW will boil the socks of 40 l in a 50 l boiler

12.5 kW should boil most batches up to and beyond 100 l
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Jacob on October 06, 2013, 09:55:27 PM
8.8kw - ~45l and no problems with good boil.

(http://www.gasproducts.ie/acatalog/ha316-1.jpg) (http://www.gasproducts.ie/acatalog/Large_Square_Gas_Boiling_Ring.html)
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: baphomite51 on October 06, 2013, 09:55:46 PM
the americans seem to use boilers between 100,000 and 200,000 BTUs for there 5 gallon brews, but 12.5Kw converts to like 50,000 BTUs? would a 8Kw burner give me a good enough boil yes?
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: baphomite51 on October 06, 2013, 09:56:41 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 06, 2013, 09:55:27 PM
8.8kw - ~45l and no problems with good boil.

(http://www.gasproducts.ie/acatalog/ha316-1.jpg) (http://www.gasproducts.ie/acatalog/Large_Square_Gas_Boiling_Ring.html)

thats the one i was just looking at in that case i think ill go for that one how are they on gas? are they expensive to run
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Jacob on October 06, 2013, 09:58:05 PM
One bottle of calor gas is enough for 7-8 brews, 40-45l each.
Also using it to heat the strike water.
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: baphomite51 on November 03, 2013, 07:09:18 PM
gonna go for the burner above but can anyone tell me which gas to go for butane or propane and wat kind of regulator thanks?
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: mr hoppy on November 03, 2013, 07:28:16 PM
I use propane because I brew outside. It's supposed to be better when it's colder although you can't use it indoors because of cabon monoxide.

There's a standard regulator for propane in ROI which is different to the UK one, and I think it's the same situation for butane. You should be able to get a regulator where you get your gas but I got my stuff from Hamilton Gas: www.gasproducts.ie. I rang them up and told them what I was up to and they sold me what I needed, so I can't recommend them enough.

In terms of getting to the boil it takes a little while with a 25l pot: I put a few tiles around the base of the boiler to block out wind, and on my last brew I put the lid on and put a heavy, quilted blanket on top of the lid (being careful it was well away from the flame) to give a bit of insulation.
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: baphomite51 on November 03, 2013, 09:21:19 PM
im mostly gonna be brewing inside so i think ill have to go for the butane but cheers for the reply. all ill need is the gas bottle, a regulator, low pressure tubing, and two jubilee hose clips?
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: mr hoppy on November 03, 2013, 10:36:38 PM
The Hamilton guys said to use high pressure tubing, but apart from the boiler that's it.
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: baphomite51 on November 03, 2013, 11:09:49 PM
sound cheers for that gonna order it tomorrow
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Ciderhead on November 03, 2013, 11:17:18 PM
Don't understand why you would even consider using a portable gas appliance indoors, it's an accident just waiting to happen.
Please some other brewers that brew indoors advise IR how you do it with electricity.
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: baphomite51 on November 03, 2013, 11:23:07 PM
is it really that dangerous, even in a well ventilated room? whats the danger exactly, is it from toxic gases or threat of explosion?
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Ciderhead on November 04, 2013, 12:12:52 AM
If your brewing indoors electricity is your best bet for loads of reasons, don't take my word ask hamiltons.
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: RichC on November 04, 2013, 03:31:56 AM

Quote from: CH on November 03, 2013, 11:17:18 PM
Don't understand why you would even consider using a portable gas appliance indoors, it's an accident just waiting to happen.
Please some other brewers that brew indoors advise IR how you do it with electricity.
+1
Gas leak outdoors- wind will disperse it, gas leak indoors-BANG!
Also CO poisoning, and all the other possibilities of causing a fire. I brew electric, wouldn't do it any other way indoors
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: baphomite51 on November 04, 2013, 07:44:37 AM
Can someone give me a quick low down on electric like cost and set up iv got a 33L stock pot from the homebrew company. I do BIAB brewing and do anything from 6 litres up to 18 the thing that reacted me to gas was how cheap it was the burner is only 40 euro delivered and I have the other gear that's needed.  Cheers
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Jacob on November 04, 2013, 08:45:04 AM
Quote from: RichC on November 04, 2013, 03:31:56 AM

Quote from: CH on November 03, 2013, 11:17:18 PM
Don't understand why you would even consider using a portable gas appliance indoors, it's an accident just waiting to happen.
Please some other brewers that brew indoors advise IR how you do it with electricity.
+1
Gas leak outdoors- wind will disperse it, gas leak indoors-BANG!
Also CO poisoning, and all the other possibilities of causing a fire. I brew electric, wouldn't do it any other way indoors
Brewing inside (in the kitchen) on butane with no problems. However, good ventilation is a must.
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Ciderhead on November 04, 2013, 09:23:07 AM
loads of info on forum about gas v's electricity, ie like gas costs twice as much to run, have a rummage.
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,3213.msg38995.html#msg38995
Consider membership as well!
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Hop Bomb on November 04, 2013, 02:12:47 PM
Ive one of those 8.8kw boiler rings from Hamilton Gas. Great control on it & once you get to a boil it takes very little gas/flame to keep it there. My better half is getting me a blichmann burner for xmas though. Going off the reviews they are super efficient & very fast & powerful.

If you decide to go gas Id suggest going electric for your HLT. Stick an stc1000 temp controller on it & it'll make your brew day so much easier as you wont overshoot your temps like you would on gas.  Your gas tank will last so much longer as you are only using it for the boil.
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: baphomite51 on November 04, 2013, 06:10:59 PM
Quote from: Hop Bomb on November 04, 2013, 02:12:47 PM
Ive one of those 8.8kw boiler rings from Hamilton Gas. Great control on it & once you get to a boil it takes very little gas/flame to keep it there. My better half is getting me a blichmann burner for xmas though. Going off the reviews they are super efficient & very fast & powerful.

If you decide to go gas Id suggest going electric for your HLT. Stick an stc1000 temp controller on it & it'll make your brew day so much easier as you wont overshoot your temps like you would on gas.  Your gas tank will last so much longer as you are only using it for the boil.

i think im gonna go gas for now the burner is only 40 quid ill give it a go ill most likely be using it in the warmer months outside anyway if i dont like how it works indoors.

im a bit lost with your post tho hop bomb, whats HLT why would you overshoot with gas and is there much work in riging up the stc100 is that the same one people use for fermentation chambers?
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: johnrm on November 04, 2013, 06:17:05 PM
Hot Liquor Tank
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: DEMPSEY on November 04, 2013, 06:21:52 PM
When your asked what's the difference between water and Liquor, You wash your equipment with water and you brew your beer with Liquor. :)True
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Hop Bomb on November 04, 2013, 06:24:10 PM
Quote from: irishrover32 on November 04, 2013, 06:10:59 PM
Quote from: Hop Bomb on November 04, 2013, 02:12:47 PM
Ive one of those 8.8kw boiler rings from Hamilton Gas. Great control on it & once you get to a boil it takes very little gas/flame to keep it there. My better half is getting me a blichmann burner for xmas though. Going off the reviews they are super efficient & very fast & powerful.

If you decide to go gas Id suggest going electric for your HLT. Stick an stc1000 temp controller on it & it'll make your brew day so much easier as you wont overshoot your temps like you would on gas.  Your gas tank will last so much longer as you are only using it for the boil.

i think im gonna go gas for now the burner is only 40 quid ill give it a go ill most likely be using it in the warmer months outside anyway if i dont like how it works indoors.

im a bit lost with your post tho hop bomb, whats HLT why would you overshoot with gas and is there much work in riging up the stc100 is that the same one people use for fermentation chambers?

On gas for the hot liquor tank Id always over shoot my target temps as Id be busy milling grain or weighing hops etc & forget to turn the gas off. Then Id have to wait for it to cool or add cold water to reduce the temp. With the stc 1000 & an electric element you can set your desired water temp for your strike water or sparge water. The stc1000 will control your element & hold the water at your desired temp. Big time saver.
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: baphomite51 on November 04, 2013, 06:35:27 PM
Quote from: Hop Bomb on November 04, 2013, 06:24:10 PM
Quote from: irishrover32 on November 04, 2013, 06:10:59 PM
Quote from: Hop Bomb on November 04, 2013, 02:12:47 PM
Ive one of those 8.8kw boiler rings from Hamilton Gas. Great control on it & once you get to a boil it takes very little gas/flame to keep it there. My better half is getting me a blichmann burner for xmas though. Going off the reviews they are super efficient & very fast & powerful.

If you decide to go gas Id suggest going electric for your HLT. Stick an stc1000 temp controller on it & it'll make your brew day so much easier as you wont overshoot your temps like you would on gas.  Your gas tank will last so much longer as you are only using it for the boil.



i think im gonna go gas for now the burner is only 40 quid ill give it a go ill most likely be using it in the warmer months outside anyway if i dont like how it works indoors.

im a bit lost with your post tho hop bomb, whats HLT why would you overshoot with gas and is there much work in riging up the stc100 is that the same one people use for fermentation chambers?

On gas for the hot liquor tank Id always over shoot my target temps as Id be busy milling grain or weighing hops etc & forget to turn the gas off. Then Id have to wait for it to cool or add cold water to reduce the temp. With the stc 1000 & an electric element you can set your desired water temp for your strike water or sparge water. The stc1000 will control your element & hold the water at your desired temp. Big time saver.

ah rit i get ya now, the problem is can u use an element with biab is there not a possibility the element will damage the bag
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Gar on November 05, 2013, 01:46:52 PM
You can get boilers with the element covered...

With an electric boiler and an stc controller - could you use your boiler as your mash tun by setting the required temperature on the controller?
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: brenmurph on November 24, 2013, 08:36:05 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 06, 2013, 09:55:27 PM
8.8kw - ~45l and no problems with good boil.

(http://www.gasproducts.ie/acatalog/ha316-1.jpg) (http://www.gasproducts.ie/acatalog/Large_Square_Gas_Boiling_Ring.html)

Are u using this burner jacob? if so is that the one for about 40 euros from gasproducts.ie?

and if that so it is good enough for us busy brewers? or would u recomend something  better?
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Jacob on November 24, 2013, 08:49:04 AM
Quote from: brenmurph on November 24, 2013, 08:36:05 AM
Are u using this burner jacob? if so is that the one for about 40 euros from gasproducts.ie?

and if that so it is good enough for us busy brewers? or would u recomend something  better?
Yes, that's the one I have. Had no problems with it for over two years and would strongly recommend it!
Got it from gasproducts.co.uk. However currently looking for a blichmann one :P
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Will_D on November 24, 2013, 11:47:07 AM
Quote from: Jacob on November 24, 2013, 08:49:04 AM
Quote from: brenmurph on November 24, 2013, 08:36:05 AM
Are u using this burner jacob? if so is that the one for about 40 euros from gasproducts.ie?

and if that so it is good enough for us busy brewers? or would u recomend something  better?
Yes, that's the one I have. Had no problems with it for over two years and would strongly recommend it!
Got it from gasproducts.co.uk. However currently looking for a blichmann one :P
Why are you changing?
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Jacob on November 24, 2013, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: Will_D on November 24, 2013, 11:47:07 AM
Why are you changing?
Love at first sight :P

Need to change regulator in my setup. You noticed yourself when got it from me that the flame 'quality' is not ok.
Looks like there's too much oxygen in the gas mix. 
Title: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Ciderhead on November 24, 2013, 12:32:04 PM
New blichmans flick on and off gas automatically based in temperature input akin to a pid so no more overshoots with gas


96 sleeps till NHC Competition.
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Will_D on November 24, 2013, 07:39:31 PM
The exact oposite in fact!

The yellow flames are due to not enough oxygen in the mix.

This mixing is where the gas jet and the aluminium sleeve are located on the burner body.

The reason for the low O2 mix is that the fixed 37 millibar regulator is not supllying the gas at high enough pressure to suck in the amount of air required.

I will bring over my burner and adjustable reg to show you tomorrow.

You may just need a new reg!
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Jacob on November 24, 2013, 07:50:23 PM
@Tube: I'm on butane but thanks for the offer
@Will: too much or less, either way it looks like it may be faulty :/

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Jacob on November 27, 2013, 09:22:19 AM
Ordered new regulator, but also found that beauty

(http://www.birminghamburner.co.uk/shop/images/5665/32+Jet-3.JPG/) (http://www.birminghamburner.co.uk/shop/32-jet-ring-burner/)
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Hop Bomb on November 27, 2013, 10:40:05 AM
Quote from: CH on November 24, 2013, 12:32:04 PM
New blichmans flick on and off gas automatically based in temperature input akin to a pid so no more overshoots with gas


96 sleeps till NHC Competition.

Thats only if its hooked up to their "tower of power" rims fired PID system.  I bought a blichmann burner a few days ago. Hope to have it by xmas. Got a few other bits for the brewery build too. Pics when its all done.  :)
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Ciderhead on November 27, 2013, 02:19:59 PM
You mean you aren't spending 600dollars on control module :(


95 sleeps till NHC Competition.
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Hop Bomb on November 27, 2013, 02:49:29 PM
Ive spent too much already. All the hardware is here to convert the pots I bought from Padraic. Im gona be copying Tasty Mc system running the hop rocket upside down as a filter, into the chiller with the chugger pump after the chiller pulling/pumping the chilled wort. Recirc/whirlpool back to BK.

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5288/5258844775_6b7809b968_z.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5084/5258844607_a5e48f0d15_z.jpg)

(https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/530193_4128258440331_1287708584_n.jpg)
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Ciderhead on November 27, 2013, 02:55:11 PM
Holy hop rocket batman:)



95 sleeps till NHC Competition.
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: DEMPSEY on November 27, 2013, 03:05:53 PM
eeh is you using the hop rocket upside down ??? as you were asked in your leaving cert,please explain :)
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Hop Bomb on November 27, 2013, 03:20:51 PM
There is two filters inside the hip rocket. By taking out the coarse one you can fit more hops in. Using the hop rocket upside down means the fine filter is at the bottom. Wort flows in / or is pulled in by the pump further down the line...

(https://scontent-a-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/599813_4128403803965_1671148128_n.jpg)

Compresses the hop bacg against the filter screen & keeps any trub, hops etc getting through...

(https://scontent-a-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/547755_4128409204100_1947614209_n.jpg)

Cone in the BK after 30 min whirlpool

(https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/487554_4397597413637_399747356_n.jpg)


This isnt my setup or my pics. Im just copying this setup.  You can look at tastys setup pics on his facebook page  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4397597413637&set=pb.1099548411.-2207520000.1385565394.&type=3&theater
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: Covey on November 27, 2013, 07:15:28 PM
I use a burner indoor in a small utility room leave the door and window open, no biggy.  i like having a sauna in Winter time
Title: Re: gas burner/stoves
Post by: baphomite51 on December 08, 2013, 06:30:46 PM
i got my burner a few weeks ago done 3 brews so far and its great i get a great rolling boil from it even when its not fully turned up and iv been using it inside and its fine. heres a snap of the set up very pleased with it.

(https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1471322_767293073296593_669661187_n.jpg)