National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Equipment & Chemicals => Topic started by: mr hoppy on October 08, 2013, 10:45:46 PM

Title: Stuck keg posts
Post by: mr hoppy on October 08, 2013, 10:45:46 PM
I'm having a spot of trouble getting the posts off a couple of kegs from the recent group buy. I've tried hot water, oxy and sitting on the keg. I'm thinking of just bringing them to a mechanic but I was wondering, before I did, if any had any suggestions.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Greg2013 on October 08, 2013, 10:51:46 PM
Quote from: mr happy on October 08, 2013, 10:45:46 PM
I'm having a stop of trouble getting the posts off a couple of kegs from the recent group buy. I've tried hot water, oxy and sitting on the keg. I'm thinking of just bringing them to a mechanic but I was wondering, before I did, if any had any suggestions.

Have you tried WD-40 ?
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: mr hoppy on October 08, 2013, 10:59:22 PM
Thanks Greg: I'll give that a go. I'm guessing that I'll be able to clean that off with oxy?
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: johnrm on October 08, 2013, 11:10:30 PM
Sitting on the keg will do little for both you or the keg...
I don't think WD is going to get into an airtight joint.

A ringspanner of the correct size should do you.
Are these imperial or metric? make sure you have the right size and you should be good.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: mr hoppy on October 08, 2013, 11:15:50 PM
The reason I mentioning sitting on the keg is that a lot of people on homebrewtalk.com did it to get better leverage. I'm pretty sure I've the right size spanner (22 mm) because I was able to get 3 of the 8 posts off. Also, as they're Italian kegs coming from Germany I'd imagine they are metric - mind the folks over on HBT seem to reckon a 7/8" spanner is "good enough" for a 22 mm post.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: johnrm on October 08, 2013, 11:24:17 PM
I have you now.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: imark on October 08, 2013, 11:39:48 PM
Having similar problem with mine.
Was getting concerned I'd damage keg getting post off so stopped. Watching this for info on how best to proceed  now.
Is wd40 a real option? Prefer to use something food grade.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Greg2013 on October 08, 2013, 11:42:13 PM
Ok not sure what your boil capacity is but my next suggestion is this, now be careful please, fill the entire keg with boiling hot water, not less than 90c at least, cap it and leave it for at least half hour. Carefully bleed off the steam hot air using the pressure release valve and try opening the post with your spanner then.

Please be aware the potential for getting burned is present without due care and attention ;D
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Greg2013 on October 08, 2013, 11:43:29 PM
Quote from: imark on October 08, 2013, 11:39:48 PM
Having similar problem with mine.
Was getting concerned I'd damage keg getting post off so stopped. Watching this for info on how best to proceed  now.
Is wd40 a real option? Prefer to use something food grade.

You will be washing it afterwards so this does not apply IMHO,besides the main ingredient in wd40 is fish oil.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: imark on October 08, 2013, 11:51:25 PM
Fish oil.... Seriously!  Well I never.
I'll get a suitable spanner (monkey wrench needs a rest) I'd it's just a heat thing maybe a blast of the torch would do? Less chance of getting scalded and I reckon the silicon rings are shot anyway.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Greg2013 on October 09, 2013, 12:16:20 AM
Less chance of getting scalded more chance of ruining your keg imho. I am not advising you what to do, just saying what i might do in a similar situation ;)
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: newToBrew on October 09, 2013, 07:29:10 AM
Why are you trying to remove them ? Is there a problem ?
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Shanna on October 09, 2013, 07:52:11 AM
Quote from: Greg2013 on October 08, 2013, 11:43:29 PM
Quote from: imark on October 08, 2013, 11:39:48 PM
Having similar problem with mine.
Was getting concerned I'd damage keg getting post off so stopped. Watching this for info on how best to proceed  now.
Is wd40 a real option? Prefer to use something food grade.

You will be washing it afterwards so this does not apply IMHO,besides the main ingredient in wd40 is fish oil.

Sorry that line is a bit fishy.  Fish oil in WD40 see http://wd40.com/about-us/myths-legends-fun-facts/ section What a Fish story!

Would not advise using any kind of non food safe lube. I had some stuck posts just turned out to be me a bit weedy. Use a ring spanner 22mm and give it some welly or if you have any stronger friends/neighbours give them a go.

Shanna
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: mr hoppy on October 09, 2013, 09:01:31 AM
Has anyone got a mechanic to take stiff posts of an impact wrench?

Seriously considering this at this stage because it's a major PITA and I reckon I should be able to get it done for a tenner.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: imark on October 09, 2013, 09:46:55 AM
I'm surprised they're stuck on so tightly. I assume the rings will be shredded and will need swapping out for the spares we got.

My socket set isn't deep enough to do the posts but I presume you could get deeper ones in halfords. I'll pop in this evening and see what I find.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: mr hoppy on October 09, 2013, 11:12:37 AM
I'm wondering if the depth of my sockets is the problem alright.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Rats on October 09, 2013, 11:32:02 AM
I bought from halfords a long socket. Give the wrench a tap with a hammer and mine came loose.

Sent from the thingy in my hand.

Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: MisterBurns on October 09, 2013, 11:42:06 AM
I'm just glad to hear I'm not the only one having difficulty with these - I actually turned purple getting them off the ones I've used so far!
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: LordEoin on October 09, 2013, 11:53:06 AM
Happy, I have an impact wrench that might do the job.
It's only on a small compressor and not very powerful, but the jolt/hammer action of it might loosen them up.
Iw worked for me a few times with stuck bolts.
I can chuck the compressor in the car and drive over to you after work tomorrow if you like.
No promises it will work, but it's worth a try.
I'll check of it has a 22mm bit in a while.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: LordEoin on October 09, 2013, 03:04:00 PM
That's what she said...
Awww, yeah!

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m474h3F2OW1r0tdtko1_500.gif)
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: imark on October 09, 2013, 03:30:16 PM
Snigger... Nice one
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: mr hoppy on October 09, 2013, 09:35:35 PM
Quote from: Il Tubo on October 09, 2013, 02:58:34 PM
Lads seriously, a piece of pipe over your ring spanner to increase the effective length is all you need.

I'll give that a try.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Eoin on October 09, 2013, 09:44:31 PM
WD40 is a banned additive in sea fishing comps, I've experimented with it and it catches lots of Dogfish. The theory is that it dissolves fish oils and when sprayed on a bait it makes the oils disperse as a cloud rather than a slick.

Sent using a complex system of semaphore and ninjas.

Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: mr hoppy on October 09, 2013, 10:45:04 PM
Ok, so I found a big ole hammer while I was poking round for a piece of piping. So I sat on one of the kegs, held the ring end of the spanner over the post with one hand and smacked the crap out of the other end of the spanner with the hammer.

I got all five of the posts off in ten minutes. Result!
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: johnrm on October 09, 2013, 10:57:42 PM
Brute force wins!
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Will_D on October 10, 2013, 09:13:55 AM
Using a hammer is not brute force believe it or not.

Brute force is just extending the length of the spanner till either the nut gives, or the nut rounds off or the spanner breaks. The latter two are more likely.

Hitting the spanner exerts a sudden sharp shock to the stuck thread and often is enough to break the friction. This is the principle of the impact wrench/driver.

Simples!
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: DEMPSEY on October 10, 2013, 01:17:54 PM
Quote from: Eoin on October 09, 2013, 09:44:31 PM
WD40 is a banned additive in sea fishing comps, I've experimented with it and it catches lots of Dogfish. The theory is that it dissolves fish oils and when sprayed on a bait it makes the oils disperse as a cloud rather than a slick.

TT
jesus the things we learn while engaged in this hobby. No matter how old you get you never stop learning :). Don't know if this is true but someone on radio was instolling the virtue's of WD40 as a relief for rheumatism. :o.
N.B. to instole was a word that I remember as to infer but the stupid dic's on google cannot find it so it looks like I can teach them. ;D
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: DEMPSEY on October 10, 2013, 01:57:27 PM
Ara me uncles from Kerry never spelt it for me when I was little but it alway's sounded great when they said it so it stuck with me. :)
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: imark on October 11, 2013, 03:44:43 PM
Nearly gave myself a hernia but eventually got the post off...the threads are ruined.  :'(

Crossed and forced on. Or wrong type forced on not sure. Cant get a good seal.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: imark on October 11, 2013, 04:03:10 PM
Not in it's current state. I haven't ever tried to fix threads. Is it possible in this case? Hoping I can get the post back on without crossing threads again...then I'd be able to get it on tight enough.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: ColMack on October 11, 2013, 04:25:21 PM
Same thing happened me with one of the original group buy kegs.  Threads ruined.
I was hoping a keg post adapter welded on might be a fix but have not been able to find out for sure.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: imark on October 11, 2013, 04:45:05 PM
Swapped on an old post I have and it looks like the thread on the cornie is able to take it. It looks like the thread is the same but for some reason the post is too long or something. It's got a separate post and poppet (not like the integrated ones on these kegs) and it's not suitable for the poppet. Feck it!
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: mr hoppy on October 25, 2013, 12:10:23 AM
I've a problem with this keg again.

All the feckin beer's gone.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: johnrm on October 25, 2013, 12:22:43 AM
Brew day at your gaff soon then?
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: mr hoppy on October 25, 2013, 01:15:03 AM
I'd love to squeeze 2 in over the weekend but with the FW beerfest coming up I'd say I'd be seriously pushing my luck!
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: imark on October 28, 2013, 12:30:49 PM
Has anybody got a tool I could borrow to fix the threads on the damaged post? Or failing that, could anybody point me in the direction of what I'd need to do this?
Both the male and female threads are damaged. Is it even possible to fix this?
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Will_D on October 28, 2013, 01:37:22 PM
Quote from: imark on October 28, 2013, 12:30:49 PM
Has anybody got a tool I could borrow to fix the threads on the damaged post? Or failing that, could anybody point me in the direction of what I'd need to do this?
Both the male and female threads are damaged. Is it even possible to fix this?
The male thread can usually be smoothed off with a small triangular file. If you do this first you may be able to use the male to coerce the female into submission (  ::) )

If you are good with files and hacksaw you could make a V pointed tool that could be used to remove the burs and dings from the female.

Usually however its the male thread gets damaged first and then when its forced in the female thread it buggers that as well!

Failing that you are going to need an NPT tap of the correct size

HTH
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: DEMPSEY on October 28, 2013, 01:42:43 PM
Tap and die kit needed. I have a cheap bsp set but you would have a problem using it on the keg bexaise the handles of the corney
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: imark on October 28, 2013, 02:21:34 PM
Dempsey...is that kit only for the male thread?

I'll try cleaning with a file and the PTFE also. Bit disappointing for a nice new keg tho.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Bzfeale80 on October 28, 2013, 09:46:13 PM
Quote from: imark on October 28, 2013, 12:30:49 PM
Has anybody got a tool I could borrow to fix the threads on the damaged post? Or failing that, could anybody point me in the direction of what I'd need to do this?
Both the male and female threads are damaged. Is it even possible to fix this?

Do you know if its a metric or NPT or other type of thread. I have a set of metric thread taps and dies that go up to M24 or something like that. Its possible that the male threaded part may have some information stamped on it if you can make it out. If an NPT male is forced into a metric female it will damage the threads on both parts. You should be able to identify the thread type for your keg by looking up the manufacturer of the keg - manufacturer's name is usually stamped on the keg. In any case this link may be useful http://www.dresselbrew.com/Keg_Info.htm

More info about pipe threads http://www.truthread.com/product-details/M-KEG-Taper-Thread-Gauges-DIN-158
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: DEMPSEY on October 29, 2013, 11:56:30 AM
Just had a goo at my Draper tap and die kit and the biggest it will do is M12. You also get one NPT 27 with the kit.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: imark on October 29, 2013, 05:18:42 PM
Mine is an AEB srl keg. I presume its metric thread as its Italian. Can't find details on the site you listed Bzfeale80.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Will_D on October 30, 2013, 11:01:54 PM
I would not assume thats just because its Italian its metric!

The comon european norm for plumbing fittings and screwed pipe is BSP!

Now Cornys originated in the US where they use NPT.

It is highly likely that a euro or chinese clone of a corny will use the same thread form.

The ONLY way to be sure is to measure the OD and pitch of the Male thread and look it up.

BTW: You need a good digital calipers and a thread pitch gauge to do this ???
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: imark on October 30, 2013, 11:17:23 PM
Quote from: Will_D on October 30, 2013, 11:01:54 PM
The ONLY way to be sure is to measure the OD and pitch of the Male thread and look it up.

BTW: You need a good digital calipers and a thread pitch gauge to do this ???
I've neither. If anybody who got kegs on last group buy could confirm the correct detail for the aeb kegs that would be excellent.
Title: Re: Stuck keg posts
Post by: Bzfeale80 on October 30, 2013, 11:45:55 PM
Quote from: imark on October 29, 2013, 05:18:42 PM
Mine is an AEB srl keg. I presume its metric thread as its Italian. Can't find details on the site you listed Bzfeale80.

Here is the website of AEB http://www.aebkegs.com/home.php

From my limited knowledge of kegs, are your kegs similar to http://www.aebkegs.com/prodotto.php?idprodotto=2

And their accessories catalogue http://www.aebkegs.com/css/img/Prodotti/catalogo%20ACCESSORI.pdf

Spare parts http://www.aebkegs.com/css/img/Prodotti/catalogo%20RICAMBI.pdf

Hopefully from the above links and a bit of google translate from Italian you will be able to find what part or equivalent you need