National Homebrew Club Ireland

General Discussions => Brewing Communities => Capital Brewers => Topic started by: Rossa on October 31, 2013, 11:05:59 AM

Title: Capital ideas
Post by: Rossa on October 31, 2013, 11:05:59 AM
I've had a few ideas. Dangerous, I hear you say.

How about having a brewing set up in tog on a permanent basis. I have some big pots :o we could convert to a boiler & mash tun. We could leave it onsite and use for demos and communal brews. For those who don't have the big equipment this would also be handy.

Secondly - what about an order of capital brewers t-shirts before Xmas. I'll ask Tom about prices and min order numbers.

I was also talking to Geoff last night and he would be open to looking after us in the future if we wanted a venue.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on October 31, 2013, 11:19:21 AM
One idea I have had in the past is a communal brew kit. If you get a very large boiler, say 100L / 200L, but use No Chill cubes (say around 10L plastic gerry cans), you can brew big on site, but split the wort up for fermentation offsite, the next day or so.

You can brew seriously on the cheap then, as large hop buys start to be feasible, as you can use up a lot of hops in one go.

In theory, this can be commercial too - selling hopped wort.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Damien M on October 31, 2013, 11:28:43 AM
Shane, I think yer missing a couple of zeros there!! 
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Padraic on October 31, 2013, 01:19:49 PM
Quote from: Rossa on October 31, 2013, 11:05:59 AM
I was also talking to Geoff last night and he would be open to looking after us in the future if we wanted a venue.

Barry is also keen to have us!

Quote from: Rossa on October 31, 2013, 11:05:59 AM
How about having a brewing set up in tog on a permanent basis. I have some big pots :o we could convert to a boiler & mash tun. We could leave it onsite and use for demos and communal brews. For those who don't have the big equipment this would also be handy.

Secondly - what about an order of capital brewers t-shirts before Xmas. I'll ask Tom about prices and min order numbers.

I would love to see us have a brewkit at tog, or any such other clubhouse that might suit our needs... This might be on teh cards as we will now have Shiny and Jules as members of Tog. If it was a runner, I could probably justify the €500 per year it is to become a member, but it is a bit pricey for using the place once a month!

I'm all for a batch of tshirts, have a chat with Tom and see what he can do and start a seperate thread! (I'll miss being the only one who wears our club tshirt! I'll need to get a new one done up!)

@TheSumOFAllBeers - I don't see why we'd need to go no chill, we could easily have a plate chiller inline before the wort made it to the jerry cans! (A plate chiller isn't as expensive when you have loads of people paying the bill!
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: irish_goat on October 31, 2013, 01:21:09 PM
Or split the hot wort up and use a couple of regular wort chillers.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on October 31, 2013, 03:00:39 PM
Quote from: Padraic on October 31, 2013, 01:19:49 PM
@TheSumOFAllBeers - I don't see why we'd need to go no chill, we could easily have a plate chiller inline before the wort made it to the jerry cans! (A plate chiller isn't as expensive when you have loads of people paying the bill!

I am thinking of the coolant requirements. Plate chillers are pretty efficient on coolant by comparison with ICs and such, but they are still really wasteful on water. I have a real issue with the waste of water, whether I am personally metered or not.

Its a personal thing - I would prefer that the majority of water I use in brewing ends up in the beer.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Padraic on October 31, 2013, 03:05:17 PM
Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on October 31, 2013, 03:00:39 PM
I am thinking of the coolant requirements. Plate chillers are pretty efficient on coolant by comparison with ICs and such, but they are still really wasteful on water. I have a real issue with the waste of water, whether I am personally metered or not.

Its a personal thing - I would prefer that the majority of water I use in brewing ends up in the beer.

You can be head of the glycol cooled Immersion Chiller project :-D

That'd be cool!
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: DEMPSEY on October 31, 2013, 03:13:07 PM
I suggest the best way to use water for cooling is to have 2 chiller systems. First one takes the initial heat from hot wort and transfers to the HLT. Second can then take the remaining wort temp down with a glycol mix that is kept for continued use.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Shane Phelan on November 12, 2013, 05:11:35 PM
Was talking about this with Jules and he is very enthusiastic about having a set of brewing equipment permanently in TOG.

Short Term
It needn't be expensive, a kettle and mash-tun along with the usual components would be a start. There is already a hydrometer and siphon in there. I have a spare thermometer and fermenting bucket with bung that I'm happy to donate.

I will set about getting a set of shelves for all this stuff so that on a brew-day, if someone wants to brew all they would need in theory was ingredients and a fermenter to take it home.

Long Term
He was also saying that an insulated enclosure could be set up to create a temperature controlled fermentation chamber.

List of stuff to donate
Shiny - Thermometer
Shiny - Fermenter (with bungs and airlock)
Shiny - Some Whole speciality malt
Shiny - More useful stuff that I find duplicates of



Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Rossa on November 12, 2013, 05:25:30 PM
I've a couple if spare 50l pots  I could donate???
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Shane Phelan on November 12, 2013, 05:32:05 PM
We could put elements into them?
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Eoin on November 12, 2013, 06:11:01 PM
One boiler, a bag and a hoist and you could BIAB pretty quickly. Not a large investment. I'd happily donate a bag if given pot specs.

The offer is there.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Shane Phelan on November 12, 2013, 06:30:59 PM
That's a great offer! Thanks Eoin. BIAB would also cut down on space requirements significantly I don't mind going halves on one of these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HE7230-72-6ft-LONG-3000-watt-3kw-DRY-WET-ROD-HEATING-ELEMENTS-UNIVERSAL-/130898730797?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item1e7a2c1f2d) to heat the thing.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/HE7230-72-6ft-LONG-3000-watt-3kw-DRY-WET-ROD-HEATING-ELEMENTS-UNIVERSAL-/00/s/NDgwWDQ4MA==/$%28KGrHqV,!o0E63YVuwpZBO4embRF+w~~60_12.JPG) (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HE7230-72-6ft-LONG-3000-watt-3kw-DRY-WET-ROD-HEATING-ELEMENTS-UNIVERSAL-/130898730797?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item1e7a2c1f2d)

Could use it as an opportunity to do a definitive guide on how to correctly earth a metal pot with JD's help?

Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on November 13, 2013, 11:22:11 AM
Go with multiple elements. I sometimes get cut outs in my kettle when wort scorches onto the element. Would love to have a backup element when that happens. Just gives lots more options really.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Padraic on November 13, 2013, 01:31:35 PM
I'll donate about 20KG of base malt that I have in stock that I'm going to be replacing in the next few weeks. I can also donate a couple of buckets for use as fermenters. And possibly some hops as well!

Maybe a seperate thread for the ingredients for the next brewday would make sense and I can drop in some of the ingredients needed. I won't be able to make it that day I think!
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Shane Phelan on November 13, 2013, 01:42:54 PM
Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on November 13, 2013, 11:22:11 AM
Go with multiple elements. I sometimes get cut outs in my kettle when wort scorches onto the element. Would love to have a backup element when that happens. Just gives lots more options really.

That element is so large that it should never cut out or scorch the sides of the bag Eoin has offered.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Eoin on November 13, 2013, 01:53:12 PM
If you start with a bag you can move on to greater things... Or not. I'll hopefully enter a few comps this year and raise the profile of BIAB a bit, it still appears that some people see it as some kind of staging house or poor cousin.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on November 13, 2013, 05:38:42 PM
Quote from: shiny on November 13, 2013, 01:42:54 PM
That element is so large that it should never cut out or scorch the sides of the bag Eoin has offered.

Will take your word for it. I just have visions, of a fancy brew day (doing an extended boil, to replicate Old Ale characteristics, or wort caramelisation) going pear shaped because of the single element cutting out.

Beginning to *like* redundancy a lot, especially as I talk to more brewers who are on bigger kit, sharing horror stories.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Eoin on November 13, 2013, 05:52:13 PM
Depends on the size of your boiler, to maintain a proper rolling boil on my 70l boiler I need to run both elements that's 2×3kw elements. If I run only one I could still get it done, but not with the required good rolling boil. Redundancy is good, I think my elements are the same as you would find in an immersion system, fitted by Clive in Brupaks to a Brouwland tank.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on November 13, 2013, 06:08:17 PM
Talked to a couple of other BIABers at our clubs brewing festival last weekend, and there was a bit of discussion about version 2.0 equipment, or what they would do differently to their current kit. Most favoured more elements than they needed, and there was good discussion on fixing them into an easily removable plate for convenient cleaning and replacement after the brewday.

When one guy started to get excited about the potential of making them hot-swappable (i.e. replacing elements during a boil), .... well we decided at that point to walk away from the barleywine ... ;)
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Rossa on November 13, 2013, 06:16:39 PM
Could we make a super duper wort chiller for nothing?
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Shane Phelan on November 13, 2013, 06:17:33 PM
If we got a length of copper, TOG would definitely have a means of bending it.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Rossa on November 13, 2013, 06:24:38 PM
Maybe make a manifold too or go the biab or both. It means we can demo both at the same time. Wort chiller or plate chiller are fairly essential.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Shane Phelan on November 13, 2013, 06:47:28 PM
I see no reason why we can't do both.

TT

Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Eoin on November 13, 2013, 07:40:12 PM
Quickest route to market with minimal investment is why I suggested it.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Eoin on November 13, 2013, 07:40:51 PM
Plus a very small footprint in the TOG.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Shane Phelan on November 13, 2013, 08:05:54 PM
I'm sold on the BIAB idea for TOG anyway, Rossa if you give Eoin the pot dimensions it commits us to making this unit. We need that commitment!
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Eoin on November 13, 2013, 09:11:21 PM
Even if not a commitment , it gives you options
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Brew_Diva on November 13, 2013, 10:19:04 PM
Great idea to have the equipment at TOG, Rossa... I'm getting my equipment soon, probably have it all together for early next week, but still without a car, its tricky to get it all down there if I wanted to brew on a brewday, and I do want to brew on the brew days sometimes!!

Would also be up for getting a Capital Brewers t-shirt, fantastic!!
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Shebeen Head Brewer on November 17, 2013, 04:26:33 PM
There's an extension being built at home at the moment so I'd be quite willing to store my 20L brew in the bag system there if the space isn't available it's no water off back.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Rossa on November 17, 2013, 05:15:59 PM
Quote from: Shebeen Head Brewer on November 17, 2013, 04:26:33 PM
There's an extension being built at home at the moment so I'd be quite willing to store my 20L brew in the bag system there if the space isn't available it's no water off back.

Generous offer. Might be just what we need before we can get the  gear in place.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: brenmurph on December 03, 2013, 10:09:24 AM
@ Rossa
Who is Geoff and Barry  mentioned in an earlier post?
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: irish_goat on December 03, 2013, 10:11:28 AM
Quote from: brenmurph on December 03, 2013, 10:09:24 AM
@ Rossa
Who is Geoff and Barry  mentioned in an earlier post?

Geoff is the owner of 57 The Headline (formerly of the B&C) and Barry is the manager(I think?) from Farringtons.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: brenmurph on December 03, 2013, 10:18:39 AM
ah cool, do ye would they be interested in allowing brewing talks and kit brewing demos upstairs during off peak times?
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: irish_goat on December 03, 2013, 10:19:20 AM
They'll let you do anything as long as you're buying pints.  :P
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: brenmurph on December 03, 2013, 10:32:10 AM
Treat maybe someone can pm some contact details please? I'm writing / producing some professional brewing courses / workshops and looking for a venue in Dublin ideally a fixed home suitable for professional quality, presentations and demonstrations
What about Tog, I hear they have a classroom? wanna get to the next brewday there to have a look at the place, seems theres good vibe and feedback.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: cruiscinlan on August 27, 2014, 11:51:37 PM
Quote from: shiny on November 13, 2013, 06:17:33 PM
If we got a length of copper, TOG would definitely have a means of bending it.

As a matter of interest did anyone do this? I have lengths of copper pipe possibly not long enough for the job but would need someone with the necessary tools to do it.  Some pipe benders only do 90 degree bends, there's a sort of a long spring you can use for curves though I think.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Shanna on August 28, 2014, 12:13:49 AM
Quote from: cruiscinlan on August 27, 2014, 11:51:37 PM
Quote from: shiny on November 13, 2013, 06:17:33 PM
If we got a length of copper, TOG would definitely have a means of bending it.

As a matter of interest did anyone do this? I have lengths of copper pipe possibly not long enough for the job but would need someone with the necessary tools to do it.  Some pipe benders only do 90 degree bends, there's a sort of a long spring you can use for curves though I think.
Quote from: cruiscinlan on August 27, 2014, 11:51:37 PM
Quote from: shiny on November 13, 2013, 06:17:33 PM
If we got a length of copper, TOG would definitely have a means of bending it.

As a matter of interest did anyone do this? I have lengths of copper pipe possibly not long enough for the job but would need someone with the necessary tools to do it.  Some pipe benders only do 90 degree bends, there's a sort of a long spring you can use for curves though I think.
Hi there,

With say 10mm copper coiled tubing it should be straight forward to bend. The tubing I have in mind is usually sold preinsulated and you can strip it off fairly easily. Just use a solid container to act as a surface to wind the copper tubing around. I created my chiller using this method. Don't worry about having to use pipe benders to create 90 degree bends. Cut the pipe and use a 90 degree elbow bend. The bends have to be soldered to secure them but this is not difficult. What you will need is flux, lead free (basically tin) solder, a blow torch, an elbow, sand paper and practice. I used the following video on youtube to create my chiller - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8EolKTDZUQ

Woodies has the elbows - see the following for an example http://www.woodiesdiy.com/Product/solder-fittings-elbow/12714/6.0.0.17#.U_5kM1RdWiU just make sure you get the right size for the tubing you have.

Most builder/plumber supplies should have them also. I would guess that Tog would have most if not all of the parts/tools to do a good job on this.

Shanna
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: cruiscinlan on September 18, 2014, 06:58:59 PM
Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on October 31, 2013, 03:00:39 PM

I am thinking of the coolant requirements. Plate chillers are pretty efficient on coolant by comparison with ICs and such, but they are still really wasteful on water. I have a real issue with the waste of water, whether I am personally metered or not.

Its a personal thing - I would prefer that the majority of water I use in brewing ends up in the beer.

I haven't been along to Tóg as yet, did you ever solve the water issue?  Apart from just leaving a tub of wort outside in colder months, one thing I've considered is a submersible pump that would recycle water from a rainwater butt or other source of non mains water.  Has anyone used a similar set-up?



Any recommendations for (cheap) stainless steel welders in Dublin?  This would be for converting a stockpot to mash tun.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Rossa on September 19, 2014, 10:29:55 AM
I do the water butt chilling. Works a treat.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Shanna on September 20, 2014, 09:31:24 AM
Quote from: cruiscinlan on September 18, 2014, 06:58:59 PM
Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on October 31, 2013, 03:00:39 PM

I am thinking of the coolant requirements. Plate chillers are pretty efficient on coolant by comparison with ICs and such, but they are still really wasteful on water. I have a real issue with the waste of water, whether I am personally metered or not.

Its a personal thing - I would prefer that the majority of water I use in brewing ends up in the beer.

I haven't been along to Tóg as yet, did you ever solve the water issue?  Apart from just leaving a tub of wort outside in colder months, one thing I've considered is a submersible pump that would recycle water from a rainwater butt or other source of non mains water.  Has anyone used a similar set-up?



Any recommendations for (cheap) stainless steel welders in Dublin?  This would be for converting a stockpot to mash tun.
You can use compression fittings instead of welding. Use a qmax cutter to make a good clean hole.

Shanna
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Vermelho on September 21, 2014, 12:44:11 AM
I just built a counterflow chiller today and would be happy to build another one for Tog if needed? Also no need for pipe benders once you have a solid surface to wrap around(corny, gas bottle etc.).
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Shane Phelan on October 03, 2014, 07:52:07 PM
Hingo has kindly donated his boiler to TOG so that brings the equipment list to:

1* 33L Insulated boil kettle
1* 33L Fermenter (Includes bung/Bubbler)
2* 5L Demijohn's (Includes bung/bubbler)
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: beerfly on October 03, 2014, 08:16:00 PM
i have a mash tun to add to the list
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Rossa on October 14, 2014, 09:25:58 PM
I've a couple of buckets I can donate.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: Hingo on October 15, 2014, 09:11:38 AM
The missus is getting me a new Mash Tun/ Boiler for me b/day so the DIY Mash tun is there if ya want a second one? Might need a bitta TLC, I was thinking of cutting half the lip of one of the buckets to reduce that deadspace or putting in an actual false bottom so it could be a project to be done in Tog!

Let me know sure, if there's no room I'll see if any other ambitious AG starter wants it to get going.
Title: Re: Capital ideas
Post by: John Edward on October 21, 2014, 04:04:57 PM
I have a 50l SS keg I could donate for a boiler as well. Christian at Tog even angle-grinded it open for me.