brewing a big hoppy pale ale tomorrow with loads of Amarillo and citra. i asked a few of the lads here about which yeast to use at the capitial brewers meeting on tuesday but i decided to split the batch and use S-04 and US-05, may aswell get to grips with them and hopefully pick up on the differences. it'll be my first time splitting a batch and rehydrating yeast so wish me luck
I was one of those that recommended the US05, I have used it loads of times with great results. I rarely hear anything bad about it whereas the same cant be said about S-04... I would be interested to taste the two side by side though!
I added the 05 to the bulk of the wort I used the 04 in a gallon. Got a ridiculous amount of trub in my mini 1 gallon Carboy now tho gonna use muslin bags next time not sure if ill even get 6 bottles out of it :/. I'll bring a bottle of each along to the next meeting if they work out.
Even if a brew doesn't work out bring it along!
What are peoples issues with S-04 ? I use a lot more of it than US-05, and I know to not use S-04 over hot summers.
Anyone care to summarise their issues with S-04 and suggest alternatives (dried preferably).
+1 for notty.
my next beer is gonna be a porter i was gonna go for the s-04 but now your making me second guess that, i might split the batch again with two different yeasts what would u recommend notty and S-04 or WLP004?
Windsor. First time I used it I did not know what I had and so did not brew with it in mind. I.e. I fooked up ::). Left it with a bad opinion of it but now that I have read up on it a bit more I am going to use it again. Because it finishes high I will maybe mash at 64 65 C. Also alot of recipes have sugar added to lower the final gravity.
This topic came up on our own club forum, and opinions are divided.
- As dried yeast goes, people favour nottingham as a replacement for S-04.
- S-04 tends to kill hop character, but you can get around it with recipe formulation
- S-04 finishes faster than nearly any other yeast, drops out bright really fast too
- for hoppy pale ales, US-05 is a better choice for preserving the late hop additions
There has been a suggestion of doing a split test - standard recipe of a hoppy pale ale, split into 2 batches and pitched with Notty & S-04. Then the same with a darker beer (more malt forward). I would probably throw US-05 into the mix as well.
Just re-read the original question and forget my suggestion of Windor for a hoppy beer :-[. Go with the us 05 as has being suggested as the S 04 when dropping out can pull hop flavour with it. :)
Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on November 06, 2013, 11:23:55 AM
This topic came up on our own club forum, and opinions are divided.
- As dried yeast goes, people favour nottingham as a replacement for S-04.
- S-04 tends to kill hop character, but you can get around it with recipe formulation
- S-04 finishes faster than nearly any other yeast, drops out bright really fast too
- for hoppy pale ales, US-05 is a better choice for preserving the late hop additions
There has been a suggestion of doing a split test - standard recipe of a hoppy pale ale, split into 2 batches and pitched with Notty & S-04. Then the same with a darker beer (more malt forward). I would probably throw US-05 into the mix as well.
I want to do that exact test on my next batch this weekend, it's gonna be a porter I have the S-04 but need the notty, gonna see if anyone has it as it's too late to order it.
so bit of an update, 1 week in fermentor, bit of a strike against S-04 theres a bit of a sulfur smell coming from it, that being said i tasted samples of both of them last night and i think i prefered the 04, i think i can detect a bit more sweetness from it while the 05 was lacking in somethin but was very crisp. cant believe the attenuation im down to 1.004 on the S-04 and 1.002 on the S-05. is this normal it seems very low. how will this effect the beer? could .002 difference be the cause of the extra sweetness in the 04 sample making the 05 seem drier?
1004 and 1002 now that's low,are you sure. Did you check with a hydrometer and at 20C. ???
temperature could have been under 20 but i corrected it with a calculator but it still gave me them values if it was at say 17 degrees would this make a difference, as i said the calculator gave me no change. it started out at 1.044 which would give me mid 70's value for attenuation
It reads .998 at 20C which I account for in my readings actually maybe I'm goin the wrong way the readings on the hydrometer were 1.004 and 1.006 so that would be 1.006 and 1.008, how's that?
What would the reason be for such low numbers I thought the lower the better ie better attenuation which is good. Wats the negatives of this?
Is your test tube big enough that has the beer and hydrometer floating free in it. Any sediment in the bottom will push up the hydrometer and so give a false reading. :-\
Ye it's quite a large cylinder could be some sediment as it's only a week fermentin so I'll give it another week and check it then.
I LOVE this hop combination when used for late hopping; just brewed with Amarillo, Citra, and a bit of home grown hops myself; just love those tropical flavors.
It's pretty incredible the different flavors you can coax from different hop varieties; super citrusy, tropical fruit, strawberries, pine, dank / marijuana-like, herbal English varieties, and just "hoppy" tasting German, Czech and eastern European varieties. -Oh yea and Nelson Sauvin which is so unique I put it in it's own category.
Either really citrusy or the tropic fruit flavors are definitely my favorites, though.
Quote from: biertourist on November 14, 2013, 11:28:56 PM
I LOVE this hop combination when used for late hopping; just brewed with Amarillo, Citra, and a bit of home grown hops myself; just love those tropical flavors.
It's pretty incredible the different flavors you can coax from different hop varieties; super citrusy, tropical fruit, strawberries, pine, dank / marijuana-like, herbal English varieties, and just "hoppy" tasting German, Czech and eastern European varieties. -Oh yea and Nelson Sauvin which is so unique I put it in it's own category.
Either really citrusy or the tropic fruit flavors are definitely my favorites, though.
im really begining to love these flavours i tried fransican wells ipa which is an all citra brew and it blew me away think im going to go all citra on my next one, maybe a zombie dust clone, thats if i can actually get any as the stuff seems hard to come by right now. what variety of home grown hops did you use, thats pretty interesting. but hops are pretty amazing and how they can manipulate them and combine them is great theres so many possibilities.
bit of an update on this anyway. i checked my gravitys today after the 2 week mark and they'v seemed to stabilize i got 1.008 for the 05 and 1.010 for the 04, my last readings must have had hop and yeast particles in it which caused the low reading. but this makes me worry about my OG reading when i took that i could see tiny particles of hops as i dont use muslin bags in my boil so how off could my reading actually be?? and is there anyway to combat this in the future. i tasted the samples and i have to say i was very very impressed with the 05, i immediatly got a smell of pineapple and there was a lovely fruity sweetness there, still alot of harsh bitterness but what can you expect after 2 weeks. the 04 was a bit more dissapointing there was still that sulfur smell and i couldn get much fruityness off it, it was more on the malty side for some reason and lacked the hoppyness i got from the 05, is this possible? i tasted the 05 first could this have made me a bit less sensitive to the flavours when tasting the 04?
Quote from: irishrover32 on November 17, 2013, 10:31:23 AM
Quote from: biertourist on November 14, 2013, 11:28:56 PM
I LOVE this hop combination when used for late hopping; just brewed with Amarillo, Citra, and a bit of home grown hops myself; just love those tropical flavors.
It's pretty incredible the different flavors you can coax from different hop varieties; super citrusy, tropical fruit, strawberries, pine, dank / marijuana-like, herbal English varieties, and just "hoppy" tasting German, Czech and eastern European varieties. -Oh yea and Nelson Sauvin which is so unique I put it in it's own category.
Either really citrusy or the tropic fruit flavors are definitely my favorites, though.
im really begining to love these flavours i tried fransican wells ipa which is an all citra brew and it blew me away think im going to go all citra on my next one, maybe a zombie dust clone, thats if i can actually get any as the stuff seems hard to come by right now. what variety of home grown hops did you use, thats pretty interesting. but hops are pretty amazing and how they can manipulate them and combine them is great theres so many possibilities.
bit of an update on this anyway. i checked my gravitys today after the 2 week mark and they'v seemed to stabilize i got 1.008 for the 05 and 1.010 for the 04, my last readings must have had hop and yeast particles in it which caused the low reading. but this makes me worry about my OG reading when i took that i could see tiny particles of hops as i dont use muslin bags in my boil so how off could my reading actually be?? and is there anyway to combat this in the future. i tasted the samples and i have to say i was very very impressed with the 05, i immediatly got a smell of pineapple and there was a lovely fruity sweetness there, still alot of harsh bitterness but what can you expect after 2 weeks. the 04 was a bit more dissapointing there was still that sulfur smell and i couldn get much fruityness off it, it was more on the malty side for some reason and lacked the hoppyness i got from the 05, is this possible? i tasted the 05 first could this have made me a bit less sensitive to the flavours when tasting the 04? i threw in my hops to begin my 1 week dry hop cant wait to check back on it next week
bottle with S-04 10/12/13 fridged for 2 days: lovely colour but very dark no light gets through the head making it appear dark and murky. sweet tropical fruits on the nose mainly pineapple, good carbonation big head from pour which dissapaits to a dense stuburn half finger head that leaves lacing down the glass. great mouth feel to it maybe due to the lowish carbonation in it right now but it still gives a good head, the bubbles are small and dont sting the mouth it may change with more time and get fizzyer but right now i really like it it feels juicy in the mouth with great body. taste is dominated by hops you get a slight fruityness from them followed by a nice smooth bitterness which hangs around in the back of the mouth for a moment and then gives way to a fruity after taste. however in my opinion it could use more hops mainly late additions to enhance the flavour but the fact that this was made using S-04 may be causing this, wen i tried samples the S-05 seemed to have more hop flavour so it will be interesting to see how the S-05 tastes. i would like to have more of a malt back bone aswell maybe introduce a little bit of crystal or munich next batch.
bottle with S-05 12/12/13 in fridge two days: great aroma from hops very fruity, tropical fruits pineapple and such. lovely colour quite pale in natural light. good head nicely carbonated starts off with a nice head and dissapaits like S-04, mouthfeel is very nice not too carbed and fizzy to my liking, could be a tiny bit more carbonated. taste is more intense than S-04 definatly more hops to it but could be a little more intense but definatly very good, followed by a nice smooth non intense bitterness, flavour lingers in the mouth which is very nice no bad after taste. not much malt to it which id like to change with a bit of munich maybe or carared which i like. so whoever advised me on S-05 Cheers
really surprised how good this turned out especially since its my 5th brew, its great how u can make something completely based on your own taste thats you love
heres a pic
(https://dub126.mail.live.com/att/GetAttachment.aspx?tnail=0&messageId=0475c682-636d-11e3-a708-00215ad8c1e8&Aux=14|0|8D0C590FB99E7D0||0|0|0|0||&cid=56d06be8568a9a0b&maxwidth=220&maxheight=160&size=Att&blob=MHxwaG90by5KUEd8aW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d)
Here's another update and a pic. On the right is the S-04 and on the left is the US-05, I can't believe the colour difference of these two identical beers except for the yeast how can yeast make such a big colour contribution I'm very confused???(https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/944301_778184512207449_441747058_n.jpg)
It is weird when I pour the S-04 it has a pale lilac hue to it, anyone have any sort of explanation, I'm guessing these should be the same colour as yeast doesn't make any color contribution (if it's not in suspension)
Quote from: iTube on December 26, 2013, 02:49:58 PM
Weird!
I concur Dr. Tube - I can't believe a yeast can do this. Colour molecules are very different to the flavour compounds that yeasts produce.
@IR32: Sure they are the same beers with different yeasts?
Defo the same beers all I done wat split the batch from the kettle bottled on the same day and caps marked they are most def identical except for the yeast
Yup same boil just split into serperate fermentors and yeasts added. So that's literally the only difference same priming sugar used aswell both primed with white table sugar so same everything except for yeast.
There could be a PhD here!
The only one difference I can think of is that the s-04 was stored in a glass carboy and the US-05 was stored in a plastic bucket, can't see how that would make a difference. I've heard that the more yeast in suspension the lighter a beer will appear as yLight bounces off the yeast but I dunno if that's even true
Partigyle? One is first runnings?
Nope mash and boil wort were the exact same wen the boil was finished and wort was cooled it was separated into a carboy and a fermentation bucket and that's the first point at which the wort separated ways.
Scratch that.
Anything to do with break material getting through?
Break material is an interesting point wen I initially poured it into the carboy the material was half way up the carboy (1 gallon carboy) it settled after a while but don't think I had as much in the bucket