Thinking of incorporating temperature control into my brewing now and I've looking at using an aquarium thermostat.
Aquarium Thermostat on Ebay £23 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AQUARIUM-GREENHOUSE-REPTILE-PLUG-GO-THERMOSTAT-FOR-BULBS-HEAT-MATS-/161127152873?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item2583ed3ce9)
and then hooking that up to a brewbelt.
That seem reasonable? Anyone got any tips/improvements?
Why not STC1000? You'll find in on ebay for ~£14
Quote from: Jacob on November 12, 2013, 09:38:23 AM
Why not STC1000? You'll find in on ebay for ~£14
So one like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/All-purpose-STC-1000-Digital-temperature-controller-with-Sensor-thermostat-Relay-/141111795726?_trksid=p2054897.l4276
Is there any extra wiring or anything to be done with that?
Quote from: irish_goat on November 12, 2013, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: Jacob on November 12, 2013, 09:38:23 AM
Why not STC1000? You'll find in on ebay for ~£14
So one like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/All-purpose-STC-1000-Digital-temperature-controller-with-Sensor-thermostat-Relay-/141111795726?_trksid=p2054897.l4276
Is there any extra wiring or anything to be done with that?
Yes, that's the one, and yes you need extra wiring with it. If you're going to use it just for heating you need one plug.
The assembly is half the fun, and it's very easy.
Here's a diagram i made earlier:
(http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/eoinlayton/Beer/STC1000Wiring_zps91a30666.jpg)
Quote from: LordEoin on November 12, 2013, 10:55:53 AM
The assembly is half the fun, and it's very easy.
Here's a diagram i made earlier:
(http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/eoinlayton/Beer/STC1000Wiring_zps91a30666.jpg)
Sure even a Derry civil servant could figure out this :P :P
Quote from: irish_goat on November 12, 2013, 09:21:38 AM
Thinking of incorporating temperature control into my brewing now and I've looking at using an aquarium thermostat.
Aquarium Thermostat on Ebay £23 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AQUARIUM-GREENHOUSE-REPTILE-PLUG-GO-THERMOSTAT-FOR-BULBS-HEAT-MATS-/161127152873?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item2583ed3ce9)
and then hooking that up to a brewbelt.
That seem reasonable? Anyone got any tips/improvements?
If you don't want to do any wiring yourself, that aquarium thermostat does seem like it will do the job. A pre-wired STC-1000 will cost you 3 times that (http://www.homebrewbuilder.co.uk/temp%20control.html).
This is my next step too. So, on the diagram, the heating and cooling wires go to fridge or brewbelt, as appropriate? Simple as? Make your own junction box etc.
So the plugs 1 to 8 are in the back of the stc?
What about the sensor?
Can you have two sockets running off the heating circuit? i.e. two elements on a hlt.
I want to get one of these for HLT control rather than heating/cooling.
Here is a good video I think though he is related to the swedish chef from the muppets,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30TvX1Zz1-Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbs64GvGgPU
;D
Quote from: ColMack on November 12, 2013, 02:20:22 PM
Can you have two sockets running off the heating circuit? i.e. two elements on a hlt.
I want to get one of these for HLT control rather than heating/cooling.
I'm not sure, the total load for the 2 elements will be going through the plug supplying power to the STC. I don't think a 13A plug would be good enough for this. You'd probably have to have the STC switching on and off 2 relays which would supply a separate plug to each element?
I leave my two elements on until the temperature is within 5 to 10 degress of my target. Then turn off one element and let the temp controller control the one element.
When it's cold I run 2 brewbelts off it no problem
Quote from: LordEoin on November 13, 2013, 05:43:01 AM
When it's cold I run 2 brewbelts off it no problem
I was thinking of doing this too. One heat belt is struggling at the moment to stay above 19° out in the garage. And it's going to get colder.
The heat belts are only 25W, so running two off an STC-1000 should be no problem.
Quote from: DEMPSEY on November 12, 2013, 02:26:01 PM
Here is a good video I think though he is related to the swedish chef from the muppets,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30TvX1Zz1-Y
Actually his name is Glenn Schapink and he is from Holland. You should check out his channel on YouTube called homebeerbrewery.
On a similar note, is there any decent way of chilling a fermenter that doesn't involve a fridge? I could probably get my hands on an old under the bar beer chiller. Maybe hook that up to an immersion coil?
That will work just another item to be clean and sterile though. :)
Would there be a way to work a coil around the outside of the fermenter and chill that way?
Yes. If you are using a plastic bucket it will not be as effective as a stainless steel one but what I would do is use copper tubing and lightly flatten it so more of the copper surface touches the side wall of the fermenter. To stop it from falling away you can tack on support struts to the flattened pipe so it holds in place or you could keep it in place with a layer of insulation foam. To best do this would be to use a larger second container wrap the pipe around the FV and sit it in the second larger vessel and fill the cavity with expanded foam. :)
I have a few kegs that I'll eventually get round to cutting open if they'd do the trick.
Or I could buy this. http://www.a1barstuff.co.uk/single-cooler-p-400.html ???
How much are they paying you now :o :P
Not that much! :P
Quote from: DEMPSEY on November 13, 2013, 11:51:45 AM
...but what I would do is use copper tubing and lightly flatten it so more of the copper surface touches the side wall of the fermenter.
You've identified the problem but the solution proposed will be little better than a normal round pipe. It'll still be just copper pipe touching keg sides at a point here and a point there.
What's needed is a good strong thermal connection between sides of keg and copper pipe. So, taking a hint from a Tesco's own brand wine cooler, put the FV into an outer vessel that has a larger diameter (e.g. a 25L fermenter sitting in a 33L fermenter or a 50L beer keg sitting in an oil drum). Fill outer vessel with water and chill the water with an immersed coil.
/J
Any solution with the cooling on the other side of a plastic or glass vessel is going to have a very slow response time though because the heat transfer rates across both plastic and glass are very poor compared to copper or stainless.
I've actually just got going a full temperature control system using a stainless steel coil in the fermenter itself for the cooling element and it's working very well, getting really tight temperature control - I've also installed a stainless steel thermowell (as you can see I love shiny equipment) centrally in the fermenter so I'm also getting an instantaneous temperature reading - with the two of these I'm getting a very fast response to temperature fluctuations and it only takes a quick blast of cooling (30seconds to a minute of water flow) to bring the temperature back to the setpoint.
Although I won't deny that I would like a fridge (although mostly for lagering), I think that option has flaws - from looking at temperatures during a fermentation in the center of the fermenter and at the fermenter wall, during the critical time (24-48hours) when the temperature starts to rise quickly the central temperature can be 3-4 degrees higher than indicated on the fermenter wall. Put this together with the slow response time of a fridge and the fact that a probe on the fermenter wall may just be reading the ambient temperature if it's not properly insulated, and you may have actual fermentation temperatures higher than what you think you are getting.
I'm pretty new to brewing (done about ten batches) and mostly have been sucking all the information I can from this website (couldn't have installed my STC-1000 controller without the info on here) so usually have very little to contribute but as I work as a process engineer and do this sort of work at large scale I thought I'd get my spake in!
If you're doing temperature controlled fermentation you need to place the temperature probe in the wort and not on the side of the FV. This is a fundamental really.
As regards the response time of a fridge, this is not likely to be significant. The wort will not change temperature that quickly while fermenting. The fridge, in the meantime, will be simultaneously producing lots of cold air. This, in turn, will relentlessly be sucking the fermentation heat right out of the brew. While no thermal system will keep perfect pace with the object being cooled, the lag will be very minor, relatively speaking.
Almost every homebrewer that does temperature controlled fermentation uses a fridge or freezer and something like a STC-1000 or PID controller to manage it all and all to very good effect.
/JD
I fyou insulate the sensor enough against the side of the FV I think it's fine.
I use a pad of packaging foam and it seems to do just as good as having the sensor in the wort
Yeah, I shouldn't really be commenting on fridges at all because I've never used one for a fermentation (I've got fridge envy) so if you have a thermowell and the fridge is controlling fine then that's that really. However, I don't think everyone with a fridge is using a thermowell, any books I've read recommend doing as LordEoin said above, taping to the wall and insulating and I suppose that is where I think there could be a problem because you're getting the temperature of the edge of the fermenter which will definitely be cooler than the centre. But if no-one is seeing a problem then I guess there isn't one.
However, I can say though that a cooling coil is WAY more efficient time and energy wise than a fridge - you can just see that if you compare cooling a wort from the boil using an immersion coil compared to putting your wort in the fridge - a cooling coil is about twenty times faster. Cleaning and sanitisation is very easy, I have everything mounted on my lid so just sanitise the same time I sanitise my fermenter.
So Irishgoats proposal of a coil with a beer chiller is probably the most efficient, but it's probably easier to buy a fridge (if you have the space!). I've actually been trying to get a hold of a beer chiller for a while (currently recirculating chilled water), but haven't been successful so far, so Irishgoat if you're not using yours I'd be glad to buy if off you!
Quote from: Dr Horrible on November 14, 2013, 02:59:11 PM
any books I've read recommend doing as LordEoin said above, taping to the wall and insulating and I suppose that is where I think there could be a problem because you're getting the temperature of the edge of the fermenter which will definitely be cooler than the centre.
During the bulk of fermentation the wort s in a state of constant movement. You're pretty much sure that the temperature of the wort at the edge of you FV is the same as that in the center.
Once the fermentation has slowed and the wort begins to chillax a little the temperature of the wort and the fridge will stabilize. Afterall you have a 23 liter bucket of liquid in this box of air.
A cooling coil or thermowell might be a better option, but honestly I don't see myself replacing the fridge.
Am I right in saying that the temperature stated on the yeast instructions is the ambient room temperature?
If so, then sticking the probe to the outside of the FV would be more accurate, wouldn't it? That's what I tell myself anyway.
no, the tempeature on the yeast packet would be the wort temp.
Quote from: LordEoin on November 14, 2013, 03:19:38 PM
A cooling coil or thermowell might be a better option, but honestly I don't see myself replacing the fridge.
If I was in your situation I wouldn't change either! - I suppose I'm just putting across the case for anyone who doesn't have the space for a fridge that a cooling coil is an alternative that would work.
Your point about the mixing is a good one - things are pretty active in there ok, it's just that the last few brews where I've had temp probes in both the centre and the wall, during the really active time the probe in the centre was going mad whereas the one on the wall was just sitting there not doing much, there was a couple of degrees of a difference between them for a while before they balanced out when things calmed down.
I'm a bit of mixing nerd, I'm sure someone has done work on temperature profiles in a fermenter somewhere, must go and have a look. I have a hunch the mixing may be great from the top to the bottom of the fermenter but possibly not so good sideways - from the centre to the wall. I'll get back if I find anything interesting - in the meantime you just enjoy your nice fridges! (grumbles to self)
Quote from: irish_goat on November 13, 2013, 11:53:57 AM
I have a few kegs that I'll eventually get round to cutting open if they'd do the trick.
I intend to do just that. A single chiller should be able to maintain different temperatures on different vessels using solenoid valves.
Quote from: irish_goat on November 13, 2013, 11:53:57 AM
Or I could buy this. http://www.a1barstuff.co.uk/single-cooler-p-400.html ???
Buggeration!
Thanks Thomas - that link will probably suck even more money out of me!
Great range of Stuff! Its now in my address book!
Many thanks