National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: Covey on November 12, 2013, 11:50:31 AM

Title: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: Covey on November 12, 2013, 11:50:31 AM
Its seems ever time i do an AG ale, i end up with a very bitter pale ale which smells nices but the hop aromas are losing out to bi tterness, i have tried using hops only from 30 min but still seem to over bitter. Any suggestions please, were talking about normal cascade citra etc
Thanks
Covey
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: irish_goat on November 12, 2013, 11:51:41 AM
Can you post up a recipe?
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: DEMPSEY on November 12, 2013, 11:55:39 AM
If you use high alpha acid hops and the new types of varieties then they want to shine. Try using fuggles and goldings for a good standard ale. Is your ale pale or red and how low are you fermenting it. A beer with a finish of 1015/16 will have a good malt sweetness that will shine. :)
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: Covey on November 12, 2013, 12:02:43 PM
Astronaught Ale

5kg Pale Malt
0.3kg Crystal 40
50g Crystal 80
75g Bicsect malt
30g wheat



10g of Citra and Galaxy @25
30g Citra and Galaxy @ 15
3030g Citra and Galaxy @ 0

OG:0.1065
FG:0.1005




I just let my beers finish where they like gravity wise, should i be stoping them from droping too low, was also thinking of using some honey malt if i can get some to add some sweetness
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: irish_goat on November 12, 2013, 12:15:50 PM
That seems quite low. I'd guess that more malt character would balance out the beer and you'd not perceive the bitterness as much.

How quick do you chill? If it takes you a while to get the beer chilled the hops are sitting longer in hot wort and more bitterness ends up getting extracted as well.
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: Garry on November 12, 2013, 12:19:55 PM
Your mash temp might be a bit low? That would give you a more fermentable wort and a lower final gravity.

I don't think that would have any effect on the bittering though.
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: Covey on November 12, 2013, 12:24:57 PM
Takes about 30 min to cool, which seems ok, are the hop adittion ok not to crazy, i did want a hoppy beer, in the end i could dry hop beacuase i thought it would have worsen the taste.
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: Garry on November 12, 2013, 12:28:46 PM
I assume the last hop addition (0 min) is 30g and not 3.03kg?

If so, it doesn't sound like a lot to me. Do you have any bittering hop addition at 60min?
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: Eoin on November 12, 2013, 12:33:05 PM
As Dempsey says, try an English old school hop, Challenger is great in bitters. The hops you are choosing are forward types.
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: DEMPSEY on November 12, 2013, 12:35:16 PM
was thinking that 3030g of hops would be the killer here alright :P. All the nice malt sweetness is fermented awat at 1005. You must be mashing a bit low. Try the same beer again doing all the the same temp's again and use Windsor yeast. :)
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on November 12, 2013, 12:49:44 PM
How are you chilling the beer? Do you use a chiller, when do you start it chilling, and how long does it take?

I passively chill, and I am noticing a trend that my beers always come out over bitter, unless I really dial back the 60 minute hops, and extract the hop bags at flame out.

Also - Galaxy is a high AA hop, you need to be a bit careful with it.

Also, your yeast may be stripping out your late additions. S-04 flocs fast, but that means it also takes a lot of hop oils with it as the yeast drops out.
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: delzep on November 12, 2013, 01:12:55 PM
Try US-05 instead
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on November 12, 2013, 01:26:14 PM
Quote from: delzep on November 12, 2013, 01:12:55 PM
Try US-05 instead

Yes, that is a good idea. It will isolate any problems with your process that is promoting bitterness rather than hop flavour. There is a really good aussie beer out there, (Stone & Wood Pale Ale) that uses US-05, but with all galaxy. Clone recipes for the galaxy use are within your schedule.
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: Covey on November 12, 2013, 06:58:18 PM
I use an immersion Copper chiller takes about 20-30min to cool, last brew I did I added
15g Cascade @ 60 I like an bit of bitter bite (betty ate a bit of bitter butter ::).....)
15g Cascade @ 30
30g Cascade @ Flameout then
Then when I tried experiment where when i was draining to the fermenter I put a muslin bag full of hop so the cool wort had to drain through the hops before getting to the fermenter, I am hoping this will give a fresh hop zing.
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: TheSumOfAllBeers on November 13, 2013, 11:19:50 AM
Quote from: Covey on November 12, 2013, 06:58:18 PM
Then when I tried experiment where when i was draining to the fermenter I put a muslin bag full of hop so the cool wort had to drain through the hops before getting to the fermenter, I am hoping this will give a fresh hop zing.

No Chillers have another similar option - dispense with all late hop additions, and just put a muslin bag into the cube, full of all your late hops.

Might try it tonight with a Kiwi hopped pale ale I am doing tonight.
Title: Re: Ales end up always more bitter than id like
Post by: Dara on November 14, 2013, 12:03:51 PM
Try dissolving approx 6grams of sugar in a small amount of water and adding it to a 500 ml bottle of your beer.  This will take the gravity up to a ball park of 1.010 SG from 1.005 (at least from my calcs). If that reduces/improves the perception of bitterness then I'd day you are mashing at to low a temp. I'd imagine the low gravity is increasing your perception bitterness. Don't recap the bottle! As an example of a low gravity finish beet try a duvel (ok a bit sour) but it finishes around 33ibu and 1.006. Tastes fairly bitter.