Hi guys, just preparing for my second all grain brew hopefully the first of many as I commence going it alone. Mash Tun and Chiller and some US 05 Ale Yeast on the way I should be all set for brewing as soon as they arrive. Exciting stuff...
Just wanted to see if anyone has any specific enough ideas for adding times and quantities with the ingredients Grain, Hops and yeast that I am using.
Grains will be Marris Otter Pale Malt 5kg and some Crystal Malt 250 (ECB?) think I have about 750g of this left but probably wouldn't use it all?? I think we only put about 250g of that in the "MichAle" (my other beer) as it would get very dark I think at that ECB? I have a bag of Bramling X sourced from Hopbomb when he was up at a brewday in summer. Its 100g. Do I use all of that?
Then the yeast is the US 05, so obviously that goes in at the end...
I was thinking to probably do something Very similar the MichAle, just with the Bramling X instead of the Citra and Cascade I used last time. Probably not as adventurous as I could be but at this stage I think I need the practise... it has been a while :)
I remember there are three Stages for the adding of the Hops, and I think that is the trickiest part.... Bittering was at about 45 mins I think, and then Aroma 15mins, with also some Last minute Hop addition when its off the boil... Are they okay timings?
I guess what I need to find out is quantities of Hops for the Bittering and Aroma and Last minute stages or is this something that I can play around with? <This is the Big Question>
Also, is 250g of the Dark Crystal malt okay for an Amber Pale Ale...maybe a little bit darker for a Christmas Brew?? Would more of this also dramatically affect the flavour. I'll use all of the Marris Otter so that will be 5kg for about 27Litre brew. All the grain goes in at the beginning as far as I remember, and its all ground already so happy days... Am expecting it to be a little higher than 5%ABV, this is down to the amount of grain added, right?
Okay so I know there's a lot of questions here, hopefully not too many silly ones.
If anyone has any suggestions re hop quantities/ timing esp,
please post below and I'll be very grateful... which I will demonstrate with lots of beer to taste.. hopefully nice beer :)
Hi guys, just preparing for my second all grain brew hopefully the first of many as I commence going it alone. Mash Tun and Chiller and some US 05 Ale Yeast on the way I should be all set for brewing as soon as they arrive. Exciting stuff...
Just wanted to see if anyone has any specific enough ideas for adding times and quantities with the ingredients Grain, Hops and yeast that I am using.
Grains will be Marris Otter Pale Malt 5kg and some Crystal Malt 250 (ECB?) think I have about 750g of this left but probably wouldn't use it all?? I think we only put about 250g of that in the "MichAle" (my other beer) as it would get very dark I think at that ECB? I have a bag of Bramling X sourced from HopHead when he was up at a brewday in summer. Its 100g. Do I use all of that?
Then the yeast is the US 05, so obviously that goes in at the end...
I was thinking to probably do something Very similar the MichAle, just with the Bramling X instead of the Citra and Cascade I used last time. Probably not as adventurous as I could be but at this stage I think I need the practise... it has been a while :)
I remember there are three Stages for the adding of the Hops, and I think that is the trickiest part.... Bittering was at about 45 mins I think, and then Aroma 15mins, with also some Last minute Hop addition when its off the boil... Are they okay timings?
I guess what I need to find out is quantities of Hops for the Bittering and Aroma and Last minute stages or is this something that I can play around with? <This is the Big Question>
Also, is 250g of the Dark Crystal malt okay for an Amber Pale Ale...maybe a little bit darker for a Christmas Brew?? Would more of this also dramatically affect the flavour. I'll use all of the Marris Otter so that will be 5kg for about 27Litre brew. All the grain goes in at the beginning as far as I remember, and its all ground already so happy days... Am expecting it to be a little higher than 5%ABV, this is down to the amount of grain added, right?
Okay so I know there's a lot of questions here, hopefully not too many silly ones.
If anyone has any suggestions re hop quantities/ timing esp,
please post below and I'll be very grateful... which I will demonstrate with lots of beer to taste.. hopefully nice beer :)
Quote from: Brew_Diva on November 14, 2013, 10:05:22 AM
Grains will be Marris Otter Pale Malt 5kg and some Crystal Malt 250 (ECB?) think I have about 750g of this left but probably wouldn't use it all??
I wouldn't use it all! It's a very dark crystal malt - it would totally overwhelm everything else. A small amount (maybe less than 4 or 5%) would be ok.
Quote from: Brew_Diva on November 14, 2013, 10:05:22 AM
I have a bag of Bramling X sourced from HopHead when he was up at a brewday in summer. Its 100g. Do I use all of that?
Is that the only hop you have in stock? If so, I'd say yes, use it all, but use it wisely. Work out how bitter you want the beer to be and then choose your additions accordingly. If you want a fairly bitter beer add more at the 60 minute mark. If you want a light beer with lots of fresh hop flavour and aroma, add more towards the end of the boil.
Quote from: Brew_Diva on November 14, 2013, 10:05:22 AM
Then the yeast is the US 05, so obviously that goes in at the end...
Correct :) After you chill the beer down to the 18-21C range.
Quote from: Brew_Diva on November 14, 2013, 10:05:22 AM
I remember there are three Stages for the adding of the Hops, and I think that is the trickiest part.... Bittering was at about 45 mins I think, and then Aroma 15mins, with also some Last minute Hop addition when its off the boil... Are they okay timings?
I'd go 60 minutes, 10 minutes, flameout. But your times are fine.
Quote from: Brew_Diva on November 14, 2013, 10:05:22 AM
I guess what I need to find out is quantities of Hops for the Bittering and Aroma and Last minute stages or is this something that I can play around with? <This is the Big Question>
This is the big question :) Most people use some kind of brewing software to help with these decisions. Hops at the start of the boil contribute mostly bitterness, so the amount depends on how bitter you want the beer to be. That depends in turn on how strong the beer is going to be alcohol wise (that's not a strict rule; more a rule of thumb). The bigger the beer the bitterer it should be to balance the sweetness of the malt. If you're brewing an English style ale (which it looks like you're doing) I'd aim for an OG of 1.030 - 1.045 and a bitterness level of 25 - 35 IBU.
Quote from: Brew_Diva on November 14, 2013, 10:05:22 AM
Am expecting it to be a little higher than 5%ABV, this is down to the amount of grain added, right?
Yes!
Best of luck with it :)
michelle we will put above into beersmith later and give you some ballpark figures to help balance the beer for you.
When / where are you brewing?
as I mentioned on your South Kildare post ill input ur ingredients and help balance the beer re colour, bitterness and alc for you, after that you can play around a little ;) as its your brew so u decide :)
Go through google and find websites that list recipes with your ingredients.
For instance Bramling Cross / Maris Otter amber etc. that dark crystal will add a lot of colour at 250 ebc. So your beer will be an interesting red colour.
Most hop additions are in the form of <weight> @ 60, <weight> @ 30, <weight> @10, <weight> @ 0.
The more you boil hops, the volatile flavour and aroma characteristics get boiled away, but more of the hops get isomerised which gives them the bittering characteristics that are desirable. The higher the alpha acids in the hops, the more bittering you get from early additions (can be very sharp). The later you add your hops, you get less bitterness from them, but you preserve the flavour and aroma.
In general I would favour less bitterness. If I was to put together a recipe, it would look like this:
5Kg Maris Otter
200 Dark Crystal
14g Bramling Cross @ 60 mins
28g Bramling Cross @ 20 mins
14g Bramling Cross @ 5 mins
I dont tend to do 0 min additions. Bramling Cross is a really interesting hop, and that US-05 will bring it out.
That will also leave you enough hops to have another go at the recipe, and vary it a bit.
using beersmith tool to make american amber ale
5kg maris to make 23 litres
light to med body 66c mash
500g dark crystal gives optimum colour. You could reduce this and use molasses or treacle or a tiny bit of chocolate malt
bramling
60 minute x 40gram
30 minute x 20 gram
5 minute x 10gram#
result
alc 5.1%
So consider above from beersmith and add to your other advice / ideas :)
@ Tube & Diva
its a tricky one cos beersmith / bjcp style says dark crystal and pale malt as ingredients, unlike other recipes there may be a dozen malts and adjuncts. The crystal '250' needed is 500gram to bring colour to the middle of the range but as tube says its crystalised to an english bitter territory re flavour, however: according to bjcp.....
"Medium body, less malty with noticable caramel/crystal malt flavor. Medium to high hop rate with corresponding aroma. Light copper to brown in color. Fruity and estery with low diacetyl. Moderate carbonation."
Apart from darkening through boiling, crystal malt, choc, mollasses, treacle act as other darkening agents, whether they are wanted in ur brew is up to you ;D
You could boil for 30 minutes before hop additions this longer boil might darken for you, or a powerfull element would kettle caramelise as well.
Just to chip in on this (i have added to the other thread as well),
Bramling Cross, plus mostly pale malt, and Us-05, you will end up with an american style pale ale. B/X has a lot of fruity flavours that are highly desired by american fruity hop heads, and is highly desired as a result, despite it being an english hop.
Unless you really like bitter beers, take it really easy on the early hop additions.
Try and calibrate where your bitterness thresholds are. For instance, Metalman Pale Ale is a great US style pale ale, with a really strong bitterness. Its a good place to decide how bitter you want your beer to be.
From my experience, home brewers have a higher tolerance/appreciation for bitterness than most of the people they share their beers with. If you want to feel proud of your beer and impress your friends, dial back on the bitterness levels, as it is very easy to overdo. You have the ingredients to make a great beer.
+1
Thanks for all the help guys. I definitely feel better prepared to take a stab at it now, taking all the advice into account...
What do you think if I make my own mind up from of Brendan(beersmith) and TheSumOfAllBeers specific recipe suggestions for weight of Crystal Malt 250 to add, Hop quantities and timing. I know it won't be an exact scientifically calibrated beer, but it sounds like there's a bit of a range of what would be suitable for my ingredients, so it looks like there is some room for experimentation 8)
If I understand correctly the Crystal 250 is what will deepen the colour considerably, the beersmith recipe is great to have, thanks Brendan, but might go a bit less than 500g possibly 250-300g, to have a slightly lighter beer.
Tube, would 3% make for a much lighter Pale Ale or would this affect the taste a lot too?... more specifically does a fair bit of bitterness also come from the grain as well as the bittering hops?
I'm going to be brewing at home in my apartment, Brendan, and thought it would be Saturday but it looks like it will be next week now before I have all my equipment together. Going to do it as soon as I can though to be ready for the festive season beerwise :-)
Still need to go to Chadwicks for my tap adaptor and a bit of hosepipe (hopefully they'll do a short piece for me as I think I only need around a meter of it.) So I might pick your brains some more on Saturday if that's cool... Will pop into Farringtons in the afternoon... What time will you all be finished up with the beer judging training??
and finally, Re boiler: I do need a massive container with an element in it right?? I heard from Shiny that he uses the kettle to get the water boiled, and was thinking this is great to save money etc, but don't I need to leave it on the boil for the 60mins...
Thanks again peeps.
This is great. Thanks a lot people :D
Great to see your back in action Michelle..... :)
Looking forward to tasting your 2nd brew :)
As far as I know we are finished early this week at 12..........but we will be up in Dublin later than that, so will defo meet up!
It is easy to fall into the temptation to go all 'chef-ey' when you are making beer. For your first go, keep it nice and simple, you will already be worrying over a lot of other things.
It takes quite a few brews to get an understanding of what specialty malts, hops and yeasts do to your beer. But dont lose sight of the fact that basic ingredients, fermented well, will make good beer.
On its own, your Maris Otter, Your Bramling Cross hops (on a basic boil schedule) and your US-05 will combine into a really nice beer. Not a passable beer, or a decent first attempt beer, but something that you will be genuinely impressed by. The recipe doesn't need complication to taste good, just decent execution. Beer doesn't need 'seasoning' to bring out its best.
If you wish to use your Dark Crystal, use it sparingly. It will add a lot of colour, and body to the beer. It will not add any bitterness, as it has not been roasted. I would encourage you to simplify, and get the basics right: mash well, boil, chill and pitch properly.
Lastly, learn and have fun! It was a bit stressful when I started to make beer from grain, and in full batch sizes, but I have always ended up with drinkable beer.
if you still have a list of what you used for your last beer use that as a guide since you know what that was like.
more grain will mean more beer at the same % or the same amount of beer at a higher %
if the crystal is a higher number then the same amount you used before will make a darker beer
if you did not have brambling cross last time then thats a bit harder to judge since hops are so different
i would probably go with sumofallbeers hop additions over bren's; use double what you use at 60min at 15-20mins.
i think shiny was talking about using the kettle to heat the water for the mash. you still need a boiler (pot/bucket) big enough to boil everything for an hour
@ all
I was simply reporting on beersmiths / bjcp recomendation it takes 500 dark crystal to get the official colour in the middle of the range or as I mentioned as well there are other ways to get the colour increase.
@ beerfly / michelle
good idea re ur last brew, twas a lovely beer so u have a good base, your suggestion of American amber this time makes it darker and the bjcp clearly states:
"Medium body, less malty with noticable caramel/crystal malt flavor. Medium to high hop rate with corresponding aroma. Light copper to brown in color. Fruity and estery with low diacetyl. Moderate carbonation."
thats the profile of american amber and as i mentioned it needs 500g dark crystal. So Im not sure what all the phobia of crystal is to be honest
@ Diva
Just go for it using the principles of your last brew and as eoin says keep it fairly csimple and make it as dark or light as you want, taste on the day and play it by ear :)
however
if your view is for competition entry you need to stick with the quoted official style above " light copper to brown" is a dark beer and the range of dark crystal is 300g to 750g thats why I suggested 500grams.
As long as you make a nice beer and we can all help u test it :D ;D ;) :) 8) all will be well :)
8) ;) :) :D
Eek, all this info my brain will fry, but its all good, and believe me, I need it!! hopefully there will be a nice beer as the outcome. Thanks again for all the extra tips and advice.
@Kellie, pop me a text on Saturday and let me know how its going. I'm only up the road so can pop down after lunchtime-ish or whatever, sure we'll see.
There's most likely be buns also... I should make it more clear maybe... cupcakes ;)
Quote from: beerfly on November 14, 2013, 09:40:18 PM
if you still have a list of what you used for your last beer use that as a guide since you know what that was like.
more grain will mean more beer at the same % or the same amount of beer at a higher %
if the crystal is a higher number then the same amount you used before will make a darker beer
The last mash was 5kg of the Marris Otter and 250g of Crystal Malt as far as I can remember, straightforward enough... and it was in fact the same ECB, 250)
I was very lucky that day re bittering as James Keane turned up to bring us beer :) and had some great app on his phone to work out the IBU for my CItra & Cascade hops combination, I think we had some very exact figures (not rounded to the nearest ten anyway... ;D) ...This hop will be totes different right??
Quote from: beerfly on November 14, 2013, 09:40:18 PM
i think shiny was talking about using the kettle to heat the water for the mash. you still need a boiler (pot/bucket) big enough to boil everything for an hour
I can't believe I forgot this. I was thinking there was something. My excuse is that in the picture for my Mash tun on homebrew company website the strainer for the Mash tun looks like a large element.... ::)