National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: mr hoppy on December 19, 2013, 10:04:47 PM

Title: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 19, 2013, 10:04:47 PM
Thinking about brewing this up over the holidays.

I've not brewed with Simcoe before. I've not had an all Simcoe beer either, but blackbrew tells me that it'll be awesome and I've liked the beers I've had with Simcoe in them.

Any thoughts?

6000g  Pearl
400g      Carapils   
175g      Carafa I   
50g      Sinnamar            

2tsp Calcium Sulfate      

Mash 17.5l @ 67 C + 2 x 6l batch sparge @ 77 C

Add Carafa immediately prior to sparge.
Add Sinnamar at start of boil
               
60 minute boil.
               
37g   Simcoe   13.2%   60 minutes
46g   Simcoe   13.2%   5 minutes
117g   Simcoe   Dry Hop

Yeast: Conan      

Boil volume 24 l
Original volume 20 l
Final volume 18 l

Expected boil gravity      61
Expected original gravity   71
Expected colour         70
Expected IBU         90
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: Dr Jacoby on December 19, 2013, 10:08:45 PM
That's a lot of sulphate to be putting in. You'll get a smoother bitterness by cutting back to one tsp. I'd also use just one sparge and make sure the pH is less than 6 to avoid extracting too many tannins
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 19, 2013, 10:11:18 PM
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on December 19, 2013, 10:08:45 PM
That's a lot of sulphate to be putting in. You'll get a smoother bitterness by cutting back to one tsp. I'd also use just one sparge and make sure the pH is less than 6 to avoid extracting too many tannins

Just to clarify - I'm in Cork. My water profile is seriously soft.


Ca - 22 mg/l
Mg - 6  mg/l
HCO3 - 37  mg/l
Ph 6.98 
Total disolved solids 148.7

I've used 2 tsps of gyspum in a few (much less hoppy) hoppy beers recently and been happy with the results. Although that was more on a Burton than US bitterness tip.
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: nigel_c on December 19, 2013, 10:28:02 PM
Give yourself a load of time with Conan. I put a black IPA on to brew on black Friday (29/11) and only down to 1.020 and still going plodding along.
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 19, 2013, 11:09:44 PM
Thanks for the advice. No one has any issues with 200g of Simcoe into 20 litres of beer?
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: imark on December 19, 2013, 11:40:13 PM
+1 on conan.  On second brew with it and reckon I've another couple to do yet to get the measure of it.
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 19, 2013, 11:42:28 PM
Would it be an idea to finish this out with a bit of WLP 540 :D

Seriously though, I've kind of half been following the discussion of Conan on here - is it kind of like Graham Wheeler's Northern English ale yeasts that need to be roused to finish out properly?
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 19, 2013, 11:47:55 PM
Also, did ye do a starter or not?
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: delzep on December 20, 2013, 12:40:28 AM
My Conan yeast ipa fermented as normal (took two weeks). Came out at 7%
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: imark on December 20, 2013, 12:42:45 AM
First batch without a starter.  Pitched the pack within a week. Second batch deliberately over pitched. It's flocculating a lot more than I expected. Getting desired attenuation is an art.
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: imark on December 20, 2013, 12:44:11 AM
Quote from: delzep on December 20, 2013, 12:40:28 AM
My Conan yeast ipa fermented as normal (took two weeks). Came out at 7%
What were your og fg and fermentation schedule?
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: delzep on December 20, 2013, 12:57:51 AM
Quote from: imark on December 20, 2013, 12:44:11 AM
Quote from: delzep on December 20, 2013, 12:40:28 AM
My Conan yeast ipa fermented as normal (took two weeks). Came out at 7%
What were your og fg and fermentation schedule?

From memory it was 1.065 and 1.012. Fermented in the spare room as usual. Dunno what temperature
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: imark on December 20, 2013, 01:20:30 AM
Quote from: delzep on December 20, 2013, 12:57:51 AM
Quote from: imark on December 20, 2013, 12:44:11 AM
Quote from: delzep on December 20, 2013, 12:40:28 AM
My Conan yeast ipa fermented as normal (took two weeks). Came out at 7%
What were your og fg and fermentation schedule?

From memory it was 1.065 and 1.012. Fermented in the spare room as usual. Dunno what temperature
My current one was 1.060 and after 2.5wks I'm at 1.016. 4 pts off target. But I have been working it at the low end of the temperature range initially.
Did you use a starter?
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: delzep on December 20, 2013, 01:55:13 AM
Nope straight from the pouch
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 20, 2013, 08:55:35 PM
Quote from: mr happy on December 19, 2013, 11:09:44 PM
Thanks for the advice. No one has any issues with 200g of Simcoe into 20 litres of beer?

Sorry for talking to myself, but crazy yeast but hops are ok?
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: imark on December 20, 2013, 09:06:10 PM
You can't really overdo hops and that schedule doesn't look too unusual to me.
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: nigel_c on December 20, 2013, 09:14:34 PM
Ive done 100+g of cascade pellets in dry for 5 days and found it a bit much. Personally I'd split the additions for 5 + 5 days. You can always add more but cant take them back. ( this is coming from a hop head) My cascade hop bomb is only coming sessionable 3 months on. Strange for a hoppy beer.
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: nigel_c on December 20, 2013, 09:24:19 PM
0 min hops and about 20 min steep are becoming a tried and tested step for my pale/ipa's.
If dry hopping in a bag you can pull after X amount of time and add a 2nd/3rd?  ;) addition.
Sample as if goes and adjust rather than just adding all at once. I find 2 additions can give a much more rounded balanced dry hopping than one large addition. 
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 20, 2013, 09:40:21 PM
Excellent. I love hoppy beers, but mostly I brew Belgians and other low (or no >:D) hop beers so wanted to check it wasn't too daft / far off base.

This is basically the BIPA recipe from the Alchemist brewery with a bit of Sinnamar to make it a bit darker. Incidentally, per Mitch Steele they expect Conan to ferment down from 1070 to 1016 if mashed at 67. They suggest fermenting at 20 degrees and giving it a few days at 22 degrees before dropping to 6 degrees for a bit.

Thanks for all the advice!
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 20, 2013, 10:04:22 PM
Quote from: imark on December 20, 2013, 12:42:45 AM
Second batch deliberately over pitched. It's flocculating a lot more than I expected.

How did you harvest your yeast? I'm wondering, if Conan is not flocculant, if bottom cropping might be problematic (like with a weiss yeast)?
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: imark on December 20, 2013, 10:07:36 PM
Oh it flocculating alright. Mines clear out of fermenter. But I'm pushing the lower fermentation temps.
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 20, 2013, 10:43:12 PM
Quote from: imark on December 20, 2013, 10:07:36 PM
Oh it flocculating alright. Mines clear out of fermenter. But I'm pushing the lower fermentation temps.

I thought the reason Heady Topper was sold in cans was that it isn't flocculant?

Sounds a bit like that old "friend" S-04 with its demands for regular rousing to get it below 1020.
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: imark on December 20, 2013, 11:18:14 PM
I fermented a few degree's lower than you plan to. You might be ok. First batch I did got seriously dry when I warmed it up. Too dry in fact. Try the schedule you mentioned and let us know.  It's a delicious yeast but it requires proper treatment.
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 20, 2013, 11:23:48 PM
TBH I'm only going off the recipe in the IPA book, but I'll post back if I don't f*** up.
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: imark on December 20, 2013, 11:31:12 PM
Reply back either way. Maybe add to this  http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=4337.0  (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=4337.0).
This yeast deserves mastering.
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 20, 2013, 11:35:52 PM
Will do. It's starting to sound like the WLP 800 of ale yeasts.

Mind there's a (big) part of me that is (seriously) in awe of using greg's house yeast:

(http://www.midwestsupplies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/h/the-new-brewing-lager-beer-noonan.jpg)

Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: Hop Bomb on December 23, 2013, 03:32:15 AM
Id echo whats been said already about splitting the dry hopping. Im doing the dry hopping in GBB while Chris is away on hols. 3kg of simcoe & 2kg simcoe is the dry hop schedule for 1000 litre batch of the DIPA. 7 days apart with the trub being dumped from the tank between dry hops. Thats 3g p/litre & 2g per litre. I think they're the magic numbers as Ive seen them posted in recipes here before. 
Title: Re: Black IPA recipe - advice wanted
Post by: mr hoppy on December 23, 2013, 10:48:29 AM
Thanks. I think I'll definitely try splitting the dry hop.

This went into the primary last night. More of an India Brown Ale than a Black IPA, although to be fair I think that's true of the Alchemist's version as well.