National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Equipment & Chemicals => Topic started by: sub82 on December 25, 2013, 08:01:47 PM

Title: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on December 25, 2013, 08:01:47 PM
Just got one of these from my father-in-law.
*Blatant bragging post*

My question is; if I have a CO2 tank, corney keg, party tap setup serving at 1Bar. Can I just swap the party tap for the beer engine or would that not work?
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on December 25, 2013, 09:03:53 PM
Thanks man - will give it a go then!
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on December 25, 2013, 10:06:29 PM
Cool sounds good! No idea about the model - how would I find that? Will take some pics and post them.
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: johnrm on December 26, 2013, 12:18:20 AM
I mistakenly heard that the pump introduces air and so Nitrogen to the beer being pumped. This is not the case. As Shane says these only pump your beer.
A nitrogen-like head is the result of a sparkler and some solid pumping.
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on December 26, 2013, 11:35:58 AM
Just posting some photos. Think the model number is: 9774AG 347/06 FG 02 - does that sound right?

(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b628/sub82/Public/68D45EC1-4F67-4C18-A10B-2C26F976F636_zpsoagx979f.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/sub82/media/Public/68D45EC1-4F67-4C18-A10B-2C26F976F636_zpsoagx979f.jpg.html)

(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b628/sub82/Public/09492E2E-1DE1-47B8-9DA8-84E2FEC99E60_zpsp9xkgb9b.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/sub82/media/Public/09492E2E-1DE1-47B8-9DA8-84E2FEC99E60_zpsp9xkgb9b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on December 26, 2013, 11:37:16 AM
Don't worry - I've only set it up by the bed for photo purposes. That won't be a permanent position! ;)
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: Will_D on December 26, 2013, 11:50:09 AM
There is also a special valve that you can fit in the beer line. It allows you to have some pressure in the keg but the beer doesn't flow unless you pull on the tap. This causes a pressure drop in the dispense side of the valve and the beer flows. When you stop the pull the valve shuts again.

@Tube: Rememebr Carr (Declan) had one at the GBS Didn't I send you a link to it?
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: DEMPSEY on December 26, 2013, 11:52:18 AM
She's a pretty little thing but doe's your Maa know you brought a pretty little thing to your bedroom. :P
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on December 26, 2013, 12:13:20 PM
Haha Dempsey! :)

Will, would it be this?

(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b628/sub82/Public/A928DB22-69F9-4E1F-A857-B7388AB3BB31_zpsmfe1827b.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/sub82/media/Public/A928DB22-69F9-4E1F-A857-B7388AB3BB31_zpsmfe1827b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: Will_D on December 26, 2013, 12:14:54 PM
Thats not the thing I meant. No idea what its for!

I will try and find the product
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on December 26, 2013, 09:59:12 PM
Cool thanks Will!
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: Will_D on December 27, 2013, 11:28:53 AM
This is not the same link as I posted earlier (can't find that post naturally)

But these are what I'm talking about:

http://www.brandels.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=130_94_67

Suggest givinging them a bell in new year just to checjk as the description isn't very descriptive!
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: Will_D on December 27, 2013, 11:58:14 AM
Think this is what I found in Manchester, UK

I think he also sells hand pumps on the bay as well:

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Real-ALE-CHECK-VALVE-Cask-Beer-Hand-Pull-Home-Bar-Cooler-/111231948787?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item19e5f0d7f3

His description tells you exactly why you need one!
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: johnrm on December 27, 2013, 12:55:22 PM
I think the pic from sub82 is this...
http://www.taprite.com/products/tools-acc/FloJet.html
A gas powered pump.
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: LordEoin on December 27, 2013, 01:00:54 PM
looks like it alright.
I suppose you'd use it like the cask application below:
(http://www.bracton.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/flojet-beer-pump-setup.gif)
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: Will_D on December 27, 2013, 01:16:24 PM
Ah Ha! Every day you learn a little more!

According to the product description these pumps would usually be run on compressed air (much cheaper than CO2) You would just use CO2 as a top blanket.

Reminds me of the 70s :o  when Scottish and Newcastle were supplying beer to pubs with 2 or 300 gallon "bag in a steel tank" that was forced out by compressed air!
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on December 27, 2013, 02:35:25 PM
Great stuff! Thanks for all the links Will, John and Eoin.
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: Fal on December 27, 2013, 02:56:07 PM
Do I understand correctly that at a basic level the hand pump setup is a hand pump connected by tube to a sealed container of beer and Ideally a valve in line between container and hand pump?
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: Will_D on December 27, 2013, 03:49:31 PM
The most basic cask beer set up is:

A cask thats been vented and a soft spile fitted (this allows the cask to breath - as the beer is removed air flows in shortening the life of the beer.

How to get the beer out:
Simplest is a wooden or metal tap knocked into the cask!

Next up is the hand pump. This has to be above the cask or you will get a syphoning effect. This sucks the beer out of the cask and up an into the beer faucet on your bar top.

If the cask is above the tap then you need one of the check valves mentioned above.

If you don't like the idea of air in your cask, or you don' use a traditional cask but a Cornie then one of these valves allows you to keep a slight over pressure blanket on the beer 9 say 1 or 2 psi at most)

HTH

BTW: Welcome to the site and ask away
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: delzep on December 27, 2013, 09:16:20 PM
Quote from: Will_D on December 27, 2013, 01:16:24 PM


Reminds me of the 70s :o  when Scottish and Newcastle were supplying beer to pubs with 2 or 300 gallon "bag in a steel tank" that was forced out by compressed air!

Pretty sure this is what Pilsner Urquell do in their Tankovna pubs in Czech Republic
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on April 09, 2015, 08:54:33 AM
Just resurrecting this old thread for some advice.

I've had this up and running for a year using a filled polypin to feed it. I found that the Flojet gas driven pump (http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/keg-pumps-pid-MP-093.html) was necessary for the beer engine to work. The beer engine wouldn't suck the beer out of the polypin on its own and doesn't appear to cause a vacuum at all unless it is used with the Flojet gas pump.

Has anyone ever heard of this type of set up?

I'm asking because I'm thinking of using it with a corny keg and replacing the Flojet pump with positive CO2 pressure in the keg. Does this sound possible?
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on April 09, 2015, 09:04:27 AM
Will do you mean a cask breather?
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on April 09, 2015, 10:49:12 AM
Ah! Makes sense!

Is it an easy fix?
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: CARA on April 09, 2015, 11:12:47 AM
Easy enough if you remember where every screw and part goes back to. Seal kits are about 30/40 ish sterling quids.
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on April 09, 2015, 11:41:27 AM
Am actually just off the phone with a Brewery Services company.

I think what I have isn't a beer engine and is actually a 'glorified lager tap'.

There's a damper under mine and no pump cylinder. Operating the hand pump opens a valve which allows the flojet pump to feed beer to the tap.

On the plus side I should be able to use it with a pressurised corny keg!
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: CARA on April 09, 2015, 12:19:08 PM
Ah, a gas pressure pump. Usually made by Taunton.
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: Will_D on April 10, 2015, 08:20:43 AM
Never heard of these! Any chance of picrures please?
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: sub82 on April 10, 2015, 09:02:18 AM
Yep - there are pictures of the "beer engine" and Flojet gas pump up on the first page of the thread.
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: CARA on April 10, 2015, 10:57:45 PM
I'll take some pics of the gas pressure pump tomorrow evening. Alot of the cider breweries installed them for their keg conditioned loveliness.
Title: Re: Beer engine/pump
Post by: auralabuse on April 10, 2015, 11:03:16 PM
Quote from: CARA on April 10, 2015, 10:57:45 PM
I'll take some pics of the gas pressure pump tomorrow evening. Alot of the cider breweries installed them for their keg conditioned loveliness.
Your like the Albert Einstein of beer