If I were to use a load of hops for the last 15 minutes of a boil (i.e., no 60 minute bittering addition), is there any point in boiling longer than 15 minutes? I could even use the FWH technique if I wanted to and still do a 15 minute boil?
What about all the benefits of a 60 minute or more boil? DMS reduction, wort caramelisation, Boil off etc.
I did a pale ale a few weeks back. 60 min boil and no hops until 20 mins and a bunch more at 0 mins for 30 min whirlpool.
Never mind the extra alcohol from a higher OG ;)
Quote from: CH on January 05, 2014, 10:56:36 PM
Never mind the extra alcohol from a higher OG ;)
Wouldn't the lack of evaporation counter this?
You boil off water increasing gravity of wort. I did an IPA yesterday and went from 1057 to 1071 over 60 mins.
Probably would have been 1060 OG on 15 min boil.
+1 in favour of late hop editions and have dumped big vols in at flameout recently even over dry hopping.
But with a lower boil time you'd boil off less wort meaning a lower ABV than you suggested
The internet say :) :
Preventing DMS:
The level of SMM in malt is responsible for the DMS level in wort. During mashing the SMM, DMS and very soluble DMSO are brought into solution. No SMM is hydrolized to DMS at this time.
Kettle boiling hydrolizes SMM to DMS which is removed during evaporation. The half life or time needed to remove half of the DMS is 40 minutes so that three-fourths is removed in 90 minutes. Narssis recommends a 100 minute boil to reduce the level of SMM and DMS to acceptable levels in most beers.
The level of DMSO does not change during the kettle boil. A small amount of DMS, 0.4 ppb, may be contributed by hops, especially if added in large amounts late in the boil. As long as the wort is hot SMM will be converted to DMS. It is important to convert SMM to DMS in the kettle so that build up during the hot wort stand is minimized.
The following steps should insure low levels of DMS in the finished beer:
Boil the entire wort 90 minutes or longer
Ensure that the boil is vigorous - rolling
Allow at least 8% evaporation
Minimize the hot wort standing time
Rapidly cool the wort
Meh, just add more hops to hide the DMS taste
Sorry I'm not explaining very well, can someone else chip in?
The longer boil process is to boil off water and concentrate your wort and increase your starting gravity.
Quote from: CH on January 05, 2014, 11:46:46 PM
Sorry I'm not explaining very well, can someone else chip in?
The longer boil process is to boil off water and concentrate your wort and increase your starting gravity.
Yes, but the shorter boil time will amount to less boil off, therefore having a lower starting gravity than if a 60/90 minute boil were used due to there being more liquid present
+1 on HB comment and that's why some run into difficulty with a lid on, I typically lose 5l on a 60 min boil.
That's true but how is the amount of alcohol in your beer calculated?
Quote from: CH on January 05, 2014, 11:51:50 PM
That's true but how is the amount of alcohol in your beer calculated?
same as usual?
Go on then how do you calculate?;)
(SG-FG) x 131 = ABV
I use the tool in beersmith. The higher your starting gravity the higher the abv.
My understanding is that the 90 min boil recomendation referenced above is more relevant for pilsner malts which have more DMS precursors than for pale malts.
Quote from: delzep on January 05, 2014, 10:14:36 PM
If I were to use a load of hops for the last 15 minutes of a boil (i.e., no 60 minute bittering addition), is there any point in boiling longer than 15 minutes? I could even use the FWH technique if I wanted to and still do a 15 minute boil?
I think you are missing the reasons why you need to do a boil.
If you only put hops in at the end of boil then you miss out on what they do if put in at the beginning.The low pH and the antibacterial action of certain hop constituents will ensure that the pathogenic and spore-forming organisms that would otherwise survive are precluded. The remaining enzymes that did not get killed during the sparge need to be murdered in the boil so this fixes the carbohydrate composition of the wort, i.e. maltose stay as maltose and dextrins stay as dextrins :). The raw wort is full of proteins and other polypeptides as well as polyphenols or tannins ye want them to get so sticky they clump together and fall out of the wort.
The DMS issue is another factor and while some beer styles want some others don't so the question of time for a boil I would say 60 minutes covers all of the above even though most of it will probably happen after 15 minutes of boiling. :)
Quote from: DEMPSEY on January 06, 2014, 09:47:23 AM
Quote from: delzep on January 05, 2014, 10:14:36 PM
If I were to use a load of hops for the last 15 minutes of a boil (i.e., no 60 minute bittering addition), is there any point in boiling longer than 15 minutes? I could even use the FWH technique if I wanted to and still do a 15 minute boil?
I think you are missing the reasons why you need to do a boil.
If you only put hops in at the end of boil then you miss out on what they do if put in at the beginning.The low pH and the antibacterial action of certain hop constituents will ensure that the pathogenic and spore-forming organisms that would otherwise survive are precluded. The remaining enzymes that did not get killed during the sparge need to be murdered in the boil so this fixes the carbohydrate composition of the wort, i.e. maltose stay as maltose and dextrins stay as dextrins :). The raw wort is full of proteins and other polypeptides as well as polyphenols or tannins ye want them to get so sticky they clump together and fall out of the wort.
The DMS issue is another factor and while some beer styles want some others don't so the question of time for a boil I would say 60 minutes covers all of the above even though most of it will probably happen after 15 minutes of boiling. :)
So a 15 minute boil is enough so
When I say most in 15 minutes does not mean all ;). Good practice is to boil a minimum of 60 minutes to kill all the lurgeebeans. :)