Hi. Declared car off road for three months. That ran out two months ago and I completely forgot about it. Now I have to pay two months arrears and tax it for the next three months. Car is still off the road. Anyone know of a way around this? I thought because its a new system there might be some leniency but went to motor tax office and it seems pretty strict...
I don't think there is anymore. Used to be a lot better, the whole SORN thing, but now they are simply making up for years of not giving two sheets.
Try saying "Department of Transport, you used to be cool man".
just say the car was sold, the new owner would not be obligated to pay the arrears - would Mrs. Mcgrath be interested in purchasing?
Quote from: 00833827 on January 23, 2014, 11:16:17 AM
just say the car was sold, the new owner would not be obligated to pay the arrears
Yes they would! Be careful buying a car that has expired tax. Make sure it was delared off the road properly or you will have to pay the arrears. The new rules are very strict! Sorry Mcgrath, the old "fill out a form and get a Guard to sign it" is gone :(
https://www.motarviews.ie/ORD/faq
Quote from: Garry on January 23, 2014, 11:21:24 AM
Quote from: 00833827 on January 23, 2014, 11:16:17 AM
just say the car was sold, the new owner would not be obligated to pay the arrears
Yes they would! Be careful buying a car that has expired tax. Make sure it was delared off the road properly or you will have to pay the arrears. The new rules are very strict! Sorry Mcgrath, the old "fill out a form and get a Guard to sign it" is gone :(
https://www.motarviews.ie/ORD/faq
I was going to say sell it.
I didnt think the arrears followed the car after the sale.
I had a quick scan through that faq but couldnt see the one which says that the new owner ha to pay arrears - i may have missed it?
Sorry fellas. I assumed the expired tax would carry on to the new owner because I've seen a lot of ads on donedeal stating that a car is declared off the road, and the new owner won't have to pay arrears.
It turns out that the new owner is only liable from the start of the month they buy the car. It's just easier if the car is declared off the road properly.
http://www.completecar.ie/askusanything/question/1118/Am-I-liable-for-a-cars-expired-tax-if-I-buy-it
So sell the car to SWMBO!
1. The arrears follow the car.
2. Always declare vehicle off the road for the maximum time allowable. There are no penalties for putting the car back on the road early but you must notify the tax office or you will find yourself being prosecuted for making a false declaration, no tax and the car will be seized should you be stopped.
3. The link above is from Jan 13 and was before the change in the legislation. The attitude now is if a vehicle is not declared off the road then the tax must be paid.
4. The idea is to eventually to follow the English model. If a vehicle shows up on the system as out of tax then a summons will automatically issue to the registered owner.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
I have a motorcycle to sell to swmbo :-(
Thanks the advice lads. I reckon I'm goosed. Oh well! Wish I'd just declared it off longer. Lesson learned...
So I have a car that is off the road ATM and I am going to sell it from next week when it completes it's NCT. The current tax is up at the end of February. If I don't sell it before then should I have it declared. :-\
if you ask me it's disgraceful and almost illegal.
forcing people pay for something they don't use.
Next I'll have tesco banging on my door demanding money for a lifetime of tampons because I never declared that i won't want or use them...
Quote from: DEMPSEY on January 23, 2014, 06:33:39 PM
So I have a car that is off the road ATM and I am going to sell it from next week when it completes it's NCT. The current tax is up at the end of February. If I don't sell it before then should I have it declared. :-\
if you are not going to be driving it declare it off the road for 12months. If your worried about test drives as long as you can show you are trying to sell the car and the person driving is a potential buyer there should be no problem. Just ensure the person is insured to drive.
If you are going to drive it while your waiting for a sale tax it. It's just not worth the risk.
Quote from: Tubomyces on January 23, 2014, 06:59:32 PM
^ Doesn't matter who's test driving it, if it's caught out on the road before it changes hand then you're done for it.
Having said that the last time I had my discs checked was 2007.
it is true both the driver and owner can be prosecuted but normal practice would be to just prosecute the driver unless the car is registered to a company. Then the company are also prosecuted. Luckily Gardai are still allowed to exercise discretion and common sense in relation to prosecutions. This may change depending on the outcome of the current hearings at the public accounts committee in relation to penalty points. Or you could just be unlucky and meet a pr!c* unfortunately they exist in every organisation.
to me it just sounds like a big plan to get more money from the honest working folk of the country. so that they can fluff their paychecks and pensions.
I should have gone into politics, money for nothing and your chicks for free (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwDDswGsJ60)
Way too many years folks been driving round with beermats for tax discs, best excuse I ever heard was a driver with a digestive who claimed his son swapped it.
If you want to drive your vehicle on Irish Roads like the rest of us you have to pay tax.
I am not prepared to subsidise untaxed and uninsured cars.
The "my car is off the road argument" and mechanism to support that was having the complete piss taken out of it with drivers using their vehicles for 12 months and paying 3 or 6 months tax.
Watching the number of vehicles the Gardai are seizing on twitter at random checks, the message is still not getting through :(
Quote from: CH (slightly altered with numbers) on January 24, 2014, 01:08:36 AM
1 - If you want to drive your vehicle on Irish Roads like the rest of us you have to pay tax.
2 - I am not prepared to subsidise untaxed and uninsured cars.
3 - The "my car is off the road argument" and mechanism to support that was having the complete piss taken out of it with drivers using their vehicles for 12 months and paying 3 or 6 months tax.
1 - i have a car in the drive that has not seen a road in 3 months, and a garage full of motorbikes for restoration. What gives anyone a right to charge me road tax on these?
2 - how were you subsidizing my car or the contents of my garage? has your road tax gone down since these 'subsidies' were removed when the new rules were brought in?
3 - so the people who have vehicles legitimately off the road have to pay for garda incompetence?
Quote from: LordEoin link=topic=/quote]
1 - i have a car in the drive that has not seen a road in 3 months, and a garage full of motorbikes for restoration. What gives anyone a right to charge me road tax on these?
2 - how were you subsidizing my car or the contents of my garage? has your road tax gone down since these 'subsidies' were removed when the new rules were brought in?
3 - so the people who have vehicles legitimately off the road have to pay for garda incompetence?
1. If you have a car in the drive that had not seen the road in 3 months you should have declared it off the road. If it was your intention to use it and just didn't that's tough. You still have to pay a tv licence even if you don't use your tv.
2. The cash for road maintenance has to come from somewhere. If I pay for the maintenance of the road network and you don't then I'm subsidising you. The question of reductions in road tax is a moot point as the monies currently being raised are insufficient to maintain the road network.
3. The change in the tax system has nothing to do with the gardai. It is a revenue matter. The old system allowed people to make a statutory declaration that a vehicle had been off the road the function of the gardai was just to witness the persons signature. This system was systematically abused.
In relation to the motorcycles you can still declare these off the road and you can extend the declaration every 12 months. If you have not done so yet do it now. If you fail to declare them off the road and you try to tax one in 2years time you will get caught for all the back tax. The form is just one page and can be downloaded from ROS.ie
I was on to the tax office before christmas.
I explained that I had a bike in a shed for the past few years.
The officer duly informed me that I had to pay for the past few years.
I don't think there is any difference between bike and car.
Both mean $$$ to them.
LE the knock on the door is the boys coming for ya, now would you prefer stoning or flogging :)
Valid point about tax coming down but the country is broke and I suspect it will yield an extra 20%, it may lessen the need to increase it.
Leo was on the radio yesterday announcing 333 million for roads for maintenance, sure that wouldn't touch the sides.
I think it's unfair to constantly blame the cops for everything, and they are taking a no flexibility approach in Dublin viz car tax.
If you have a vehicle off the road declare it as such.
I think motortax is motortax irrespective of vehicle class.
Have you experience of this?
There was an opportunity a few months ago to deal with this and it had extensive media coverage at the time.
I didn't listen to the blurb and now have to sell my bike to my missus. My bad.
What they should have done was...
If at the time of the legislative change your vehicle was Taxed and on the road, once it lapsed, you are subject to penalty.
It will save a lot of phantom sales.
My bike is about to attract 2 new owners in the space of a week or so, then I'll own it again, then it will be off the road until whenever.
And it is not possible to tax or insure a bike for 6 summer months (Ok, 1 month) so you pay full whack for having it in a garage anyway.
Sucks.
Im 99% sure if your missus buys the car the arrears wont be applicable - she will just tax from the month of the day the car is in her name.
Im hoping for all the hassle of trying to avoid the arrears the car is a 5.0l V8 and not a 1 liter Micra - ???
What I can a test to is the NCT. My wife old car was off the road as we were giving it to my Daughter couple of years back. When she was ready for it we went to the Garda station and got the form stamped to declare the car off the road for tax but when we went to do an NCT with the car re registered in my Daughter's name as new owner they would not start the new NCT disc from now but instead back dated it to the last expiry date which was 20 months so she got only 4 months and had to do it again. >:(
yes this is the case with NCT - however its a case of timing with the NCT, had you have left it another month, the NCT would probably have been valid for 27 months if it was first registered less than ten years ago - or 15 months if it was registered more than ten years ago.
The flip side of this is that the NCT should be valid for 1 year (or 2 yrs or 4 yrs, whichever) from the date of the test, instead it is on the anniversary of the first NCT.
https://www.motarviews.ie/ORD/faq
According to that link you are supposed to get notification when your off the road declaration is running out. Allows you to renew it. I was told by the motor tax office that this isn't the case and its entirely up to the owner. So which is true? I never received one anyway. They said that there is no way to appeal. I'd love to see a record of them sending one.
Did not read the link but if it states that they should contact you then you go back to the motor tax people and tell them NO is not an acceptable answer and seek higher ranking person. Ask for name and write down answers and refer to the fact you will be putting this in writing. Make sure you have the name and confirm its spelling. Be polite always works when quizzing official answers.
Quote from: DEMPSEY on January 24, 2014, 10:41:55 AM
What I can a test to is the NCT. My wife old car was off the road as we were giving it to my Daughter couple of years back. When she was ready for it we went to the Garda station and got the form stamped to declare the car off the road for tax but when we went to do an NCT with the car re registered in my Daughter's name as new owner they would not start the new NCT disc from now but instead back dated it to the last expiry date which was 20 months so she got only 4 months and had to do it again. >:(
I got caught with that a few years ago doin the honest thing, bough a nice car and brought it in, had a bit of servicin and repair and brought it down passes with no faults. hands me a 3 month disc. in shock I said WAH :o...he sed I shud have brought it in wen It was due....I sed I just bought it...he sed TUF ur only gettin 3 months..
Thats NCT pistake which is still goin aparently.
A half dozen emails later I got nowhere...all I got was dear sit section x of the whatever act, the nct centre was correct....bla bla..
RE Off the road..
if car, bike or tractor is off the road just send in the form for the easiest life
However, the road traffic act is about traffic on the road.. When not on the road u dont need tax, insurance, licence, nct.
It could be simplified.
Cop stops car, no tax, nct, insurance or whatever. Just impound car and say good nite sir to the illegal driver
[/QUOTE]RE Off the road..
if car, bike or tractor is off the road just send in the form for the easiest life
However, the road traffic act is about traffic on the road.. When not on the road u dont need tax, insurance, licence, nct.
[\quote]
This is true the difficulty however now arises that the intention of revenue is for any vehicle that is not taxed but has been previously taxed a summons for non payment of tax will automatically issue to the registered owner. This is possible because there is no presumption of innocence in relation to certain road traffic legislation and it is the responsibility of the accused to prove the vehicle was not on the road. This is why you now have to declare vehicles off the road in advance. Before everyone panics this has not started yet as the legislation in relation to the issuing of the summons has not been enacted...... Yet .
Quote from: 00833827 on January 24, 2014, 10:24:58 AM
Im 99% sure if your missus buys the car the arrears wont be applicable - she will just tax from the month of the day the car is in her name.
Im hoping for all the hassle of trying to avoid the arrears the car is a 5.0l V8 and not a 1 liter Micra - ???
This is my take on it also - i havent seen anything written from an official source that says otherwise.
Official reply.
Dear Sir,
There will be no liability to motor tax for the previous owner as long as the vehicle was not used on a public road or parked in a public place for the period it was untaxed.
Regards,
James
Dear Sir,
As the new owner of an untaxed vehicle, please note that you are only liable to motor tax from the 1st Day of the month of date of sale. The past owner period does not apply to you.
Regards,
James
Just off the phone myself to tax office.
1.Reminders where emailed to people. But ended up in peoples spam folder. No comeback as it is seen as a curtisy only.
2. Arrears die if car is scrapped or ownership changed.
3. Untaxed car can be driven to nct centre or to place where nct repairs are to be carried out.
A15. A vehicle may be used during the period of anon-use declaration in two cases:
to bring it to and from atest centre for the test;
Or to bring it for repair after a re-test, or back to where you are keeping it while it is off the road after the repairs. This option may only be used where an appointment has already been made for a re-test.
Rather than changing ownership twice, can I transfer ownership to myself?
Hypothetically - I sell it to my Goldfish who is also called John... ::)
Think about it. Americans will stuff to their Dogs.
Perhaps - cars move between family members all the time - ive had a few of my auld fellas cars over the years - same name as me (different address though)
QuoteOr to bring it for repair after a re-test, or back to where you are keeping it while it is off the road after the repairs.
Can see this being abused - "Just bringing her to the mechanic, garda" - i suppose if you had an appointment letter for a test in the near future there is not much they can say...
Quote from: 00833827 on January 29, 2014, 01:40:12 PM
Perhaps - cars move between family members all the time - ive had a few of my auld fellas cars over the years - same name as me (different address though)
Your auld fella's 00833827 too? :P :P
Quote from: Garry on January 29, 2014, 02:15:30 PM
Quote from: 00833827 on January 29, 2014, 01:40:12 PM
Perhaps - cars move between family members all the time - ive had a few of my auld fellas cars over the years - same name as me (different address though)
Your auld fella's 00833827 too? :P :P
Ha haa you are quicker off the mark than me :)
BOOM BOOM! ;D
Quote from: johnrm on January 29, 2014, 01:18:42 PM
Rather than changing ownership twice, can I transfer ownership to myself?
Hypothetically - I sell it to my Goldfish who is also called John... ::)
Think about it. Americans will stuff to their Dogs.
haha.. I'll swap you my car for your bike?? haha!
3. Untaxed car can be driven to nct centre or to place where nct repairs are to be carried out.
Just be careful in relation to this one you are exempt tax but this does not mean you cannot be prosecuted for other offences in relation to whether the vehicle is roadworthy or not.
Quote from: Chris on January 29, 2014, 02:51:43 PM
3. Untaxed car can be driven to nct centre or to place where nct repairs are to be carried out.
Just be careful in relation to this one you are exempt tax but this does not mean you cannot be prosecuted for other offences in relation to whether the vehicle is roadworthy or not.
Good point. Think its 4 points for no nct...