I am going to start manufacturing / assembling pumps suitable for brewing with some assistance from a couple of capable people.
These will be the best in the world and will come with a 3 year warranty for continuous use, just like the ones I worked with in a major plc food company. They will withstand temperatures of 250 degrees and have nothing but stainless steel in contact with the wort or beer. They will be driven by any motor from a 12volt cordless drill to car starter motor and the pump will last forever. Just like the Morris Minors of the day gone by they will have a handle to pump in an emergency should the industrial grade second pump fail. They will come with an adjustable housing, bracketing system that will allow any motor to be mounted on it.
If u dont want to save money and connect your own motor they can come with a pair of motors in the unlikely event of a motor failing a spare will be on hand and will pump whatever litres per minute u need probably 4 or 5 litres per minute and will also come with a stainless mesh filter that backflushes with a clever system that flushes the trub / bits of hops down the drain with a small flow of water.
Does anyone think homebrewers would be interested at 125 euros for the everlasting pump and filter?
Debate between yorselves, Ill be on holidays :)
Hi "Master Masher ( The Migty Morphing ) Murph" or Bren for short,
Sounds like a fantastic spec, As a rocket scientist I love the idea of a redundant motor!
Now you are being serious about this??
What sort of timescale are you looking at?
There are more than 15 chuggers on the wish list. Would be much better to support someone locally even if components come from the elsquare!!
Photos?
ye willD heres a pic of a similar one. The manufacturer assures me they are / will be to the highest specification for continuous industrial use.
The bracketing system and clever filter system could be made by a good friend of mine who is great with stainless work.
The plan would be to import 50 of the pumps by DHL for 150 us dollars shipping and as the everlasting pumps can be made immediatly to order and at a very small cost so the import taxes will be 10 euros each keeping these incredible quality top grade SS pumps really keenly priced, then source the brushless motors with direct coupling same as a drill chuck can even have a universal coupling for 1.50 dollar in case the homebrewer doesnt attach the motor straight, but these pump shafts are so strong even if the homebrewer dosnt connect the motor straight there is no chance of the pump failing cost its so incredibly strong just like in spaceships. Then we manufacture the universal bracketing system on a small plant here in Ireland and then get a chinese shiipping company to distribute them to every homebrew shop in the world for about 2 dollars each.
Thats what I had in mind, the numbers are fairly accurate, just as this is a market research topic Im wondering what people feel about it?
Would the 125 Euro include a motor? I think there'd be some interest alright. You'd probably manage to shift a few of them to the UK too ?
Does the motor determine the strength of flow? How many litres per minute would be realistic? Chugger pumps achieve 20 litres per minute apparently. How would your pump compare?
If we homebrew 23 itre batches why would we need 20 litres a minute flow?
I put this post up to make a point that there is an incredible amount we can do as a club to embrace a passion for brewing and all things shiny stainless steel.
We have members from all departments, stainless engineers, skilled brewers, marketing people, electricians and electrons, it, techys, nothing is beyond our potential.
The post was neither a joke or real, there was a little bit of sarcasm involved.
I will be receiving a number of quality pumps from china ( some food grade and some not) and experimenting with it and come up with ideas to make thinks simple and foolproof for brewing and to implement water recovery systems from brewday everything I said is possible. I plan to pump brew cooling water through cold baths to recycle and pump back to holding tanks and also to recover hot blast chiller and pump back to radiators in the house or to heat fermenting chambers. I am also working on a copper cylinder to pick up heat from the back of my fridges (replacing the radiators) and use this water for cleaning and household, this means that the cost of refrigeration is effectively zero as all the heat produced by my fridges will be reused.
So a dozen pumps on the way, I will keep ye informed of the progress
To answer your question DrJacoby. The pump ( or any pump) would be rated at a certain rate of revolutions. A very small pump would be suffice for homebrewing. A 3 or 6 litre / minute pump would be very small and compact and pump more than enough for 23 litre homebrews with a few watts. I currently use a 12volt 12 watt chinese pump that if it was a car would have 300,000 miles on it :) The pump in the pic would be driven easily by the smallest cordless drill or a small motor which would be seperate to the pump. I will post pics when my ( our ) project is finished.
@ garry
a pump like that would prob come in at sub 50 euros inc duty, a motor driven one less that 100, my point was that just like a drill is used for grinding grain a drill motor ( or any small drill ) could easily cope with a few minutes pumping. The drill has no heat issues and the pump would be heat rated. A premium motor from a top quality drill would be 10-15 euros in china
However as there is so much bias against chinese products I would never go ahead with a group buy on something like this. My house, gym and brewery is full of chinese products and everything is fine and has been. I have no issues buying from china. Its just a matter of finding a quality supplier. As I wasnt allowed comment on other pump options on another thread I opened this one
However I'm now closing it, anyone wants to know more about pumps ye can always message me or call to our brewhouse to look for yourselves
Quote from: Garry on April 23, 2014, 10:41:44 PM
Would the 125 Euro include a motor? I think there'd be some interest alright. You'd probably manage to shift a few of them to the UK too ?
If i havnt answered already, I will be using my McGyver skills and making a quality prototype setup for well less than 100 euros. I have at least 5 x 12-18 volt drills down my garage with knackered batteries, those motors will be very usefull and id say half the homebrew club haveas many old drills again with battery probs as very little else ever goes wrong.
Quote from: brenmurph on April 23, 2014, 11:32:33 PM
If we homebrew 23 itre batches why would we need 20 litres a minute flow?
Whirlpooling. Plus some of us want the flexibility to brew larger batches.
Flow rate not important I always find you end up throttling back the flow no matter what pump is used. Looks good MacGyver.
Quote from: B.B. on April 24, 2014, 10:11:09 AM
I always find you end up throttling back the flow no matter what pump is used.
Even for whirlpooling? I can understand throttling back for basic transfers but I would have thought more power is needed for a good whirlpool, especially if you brew larger batches.
for pumping brew Id use the analogy that if we bought a range rover with a 1.3 ford fiesta engine, the first hill we drive up using 4x4 would wreck the engine, the other side is if we put a v16 26 litre drag racing engine in it it would be phenominally expensive and would eat the drivetrain and tyres off it so my point is what is the best match, no one has even discussed it unless they have and I didnt see the thread.
I would like a decent, capable, reliable pump as much as anyone but I dont see how spending 200 euros, 100 shipping and 50 taxes will help my pocket or my brewing, so Im interested in researching using a variety of pumps and see which are best for the job. if a pump i acquire isnt up to one job it will be up to another e.g it can pump waste water to a water butt.
Having greater flow rate than currently needed is a good idea as you can use a valve to control the rate of flow and when you want it to flow faster for other reasons then you just open the valve and let her rip :)
agree dempsey to a point, we discussed this a year or more back. theres a limit to how much you can reduce without stressing and overheating motor and roasting the brushes.
As long as theres a good match. I dont think restricting a 20 litre flow to 1 litre to do a gentle sparge will be appreciated by the pump.
So good to see some debate about pumps, pairing, matching, uses and limitations :)
Interesting idea to use a gear pump, I've only ever seen those types being used for controlled dosing of viscous liquids, but there's no reason why they shouldn't work. Pretty sure they self-prime as well, which is handy. There's very tight clearances on the gears though, how have you found them to handle solids, like hops, trub, etc?
@ DR Horrible
These are highly durable industrial pumps. u are right they are used for pumping petrol, engine oil, food oils, food stuffs, hot water, have strong suction for viscous liquids.
Bronze impellare for petrol. SS impellar for foodstuffs
I'd rather catch hops in a filter as whirlpool takes up time. I like to pump through chiller and get wort cooled asap but yes I guess more flow rate would be good for that.
I think the main obstacle to your pump might be the powertrain needed. For MacGyver and apprentices types we can make one but most need it to be ready without any work just plug it in and go.
Agree bb. But most homebrewers prob havnt got 300 euros for a pump, thats my angle. As you know a commercial setup needs hd industrial gear. A fella brewin once a forthnite or month does not need a pump that can do 1,000,000 hours. More like 20 hours a year :) would suffice therefore I am researching can we or not have a fit for purpose setup that will happily run a reliable service for an average homebrrewer who is not in a position to spend a fortune of a brew setup. two halves to the club and I respect both, the ones who love the technology and SS and the ones who would love but there swimbo's wont part with the cash :)
Quote from: B.B. on April 24, 2014, 12:23:43 PM
I'd rather catch hops in a filter as whirlpool takes up time. I like to pump through chiller and get wort cooled asap but yes I guess more flow rate would be good for that.
But if the intention is to create a whirlpool chiller, which is probaby the quickest way to chill an entire batch of wort down to temps where hop volatiles aren't being destroyed or blown off, then whirlpooling can actually save time.
A removable hop filter would work great with a whirlpool chiller set up. It would prevent the pump from getting clogged and would remove the need to continue whirlpooling once the wort is down to pitching temp.
Hop removal is not the only (or even the main) reason to want to create a whirlpool.
off topic a little but its my thread :)
how many people know that BB is a contender for next years nationals? based on this below in the pic hes a brewing guru.
I said yesterday prob the best beer Ive experienced....and its not even lagered yet..BB we need a marzen party to celebrate this one.
here is BB's it is sitting for 10 minutes in a glass...pity ye cant taste it as well as see it
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on April 24, 2014, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: B.B. on April 24, 2014, 12:23:43 PM
I'd rather catch hops in a filter as whirlpool takes up time. I like to pump through chiller and get wort cooled asap but yes I guess more flow rate would be good for that.
But if the intention is to create a whirlpool chiller, which is probaby the quickest way to chill an entire batch of wort down to temps where hop volatiles aren't being destroyed or blown off, then whirlpooling can actually save time.
A removable hop filter would work great with a whirlpool chiller set up. It would prevent the pump from getting clogged and would remove the need to continue whirlpooling once the wort is down to pitching temp.
Hop removal is not the only (or even the main) reason to want to create a whirlpool.
Good debate! Great debate
:) just use a copper coil chiller, leave the trub in it and produce world class beers like ive just posted above :)
That's what I do at the moment. But I'd like to speed up the process by using a whirlpool.
You can create world class beer with almost any set up. But the more you brew the more it helps to have a set up that minimises time wasting and unnecessary effort.
agree fully,
great beer can be produced on a range of setups. Different folks for different folks. speed / efficiency may be important for many. We are lucky that I work from home and have the ability to take things slowly and public brewdays we generally have no need to rush.
I try use hop flowers as much as possible so havnt got into the pellet sludge problem really. If I do use pellets it all goes in fermenter and gets racked off in a few days. Some like to remove all trub I dont mind trub, our beers are good trub in or trub out.
Myself and a fellow member are working on ideas for pellet trub removal without whirlpooling requirement, that way it would simpler for the masses of homebrewers to manage pellet trub without expensive systems
On off note .....dear God look at the color of that body and head.
Great debate Bren and while you do raise some very valid points I do feel you need to answer the obvious question - why did you leave the best beer you ever tasted in the glass for 10 mins before drinking it? That's some self restraint
Myself and a fellow member are working on ideas for pellet trub removal without whirlpooling requirement, that way it would simpler for the masses of homebrewers to manage pellet trub without expensive systems
[/quote]
See pic below.. possibly the best solution I've used for pellet hop management.
Blichmann hop stopper.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/24/eza7abuv.jpg)
Quote from: MisterBurns on April 24, 2014, 02:10:40 PM
Great debate Bren and while you do raise some very valid points I do feel you need to answer the obvious question - why did you leave the best beer you ever tasted in the glass for 10 mins before drinking it? That's some self restraint
all in the mane of quality control. Marzen needs a lasting head.. BB's has it!!
Quote from: psham on April 24, 2014, 02:14:53 PM
Myself and a fellow member are working on ideas for pellet trub removal without whirlpooling requirement, that way it would simpler for the masses of homebrewers to manage pellet trub without expensive systems
See pic below.. possibly the best solution I've used for pellet hop management.
Blichmann hop stopper.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/24/eza7abuv.jpg)
[/quote]
hard to judge it on a pic, in general hop pellets are near dust levels of fineness and dont usually strain very well without fine mesh, fine mesh tends to clog from my experience
That's the trick with this one.. if you do a manual whirlpool at the end of the boil, wait for 10-15 mins before starting to transfer to fermenter, hop debris is below perferated holes.. when liquid level gets to end of holes just lift up the shield with no holes and here there is a fine mesh for the last few litres.
You cant see from the pic but a dip tube is used to collect from inside the cylinder to tap.
love to see it in action..hard to understand how it operated from texy...any u tubes?
Thinking of getting one myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YVFHYJ3a_M
I bought the hop blocker in HBW but brought it back. I had the tap already fitted on my kettle & retro fitting this would have been very difficult. Grand on the blichmann pots Id say as the have that swish screw off dip tube. In the end I got a stainless hop spider.
I think spider is the way to go but easy to make one if these. I'm guess for someone with no access to stainless it could be made by drilling holes in plastic pipe. Small ones at bottom and bigger on top. Then cut same size pipe down the side and slip it over drilled piece to cover small holes then pull it up allowing small holes to do the work. Nice little diy project for someone
If you really want to throttle down the flow from a pump you use a diverter valve.
Full open: All liquid goes to where you want it
Fully closed the liquid is recirculated to where it came from.
In between: Whatever ratio you want
This is the priciple used in High Pressure Hydraulic pumping circuits and the like.
It can just be as simple as a pressure relief valve that "blows off" to the source reservoir
Can a speed control valve be fitted like a dimmer switch.
Saw this on JBK. I think it's what Will is describing?
Quote from: Will_D on April 24, 2014, 07:40:43 PM
If you really want to throttle down the flow from a pump you use a diverter valve.
Full open: All liquid goes to where you want it
Fully closed the liquid is recirculated to where it came from.
In between: Whatever ratio you want
This is the priciple used in High Pressure Hydraulic pumping circuits and the like.
It can just be as simple as a pressure relief valve that "blows off" to the source reservoir
agree will, a simple 10 euro 20 litre a minute washing machine pump has this built in as has my salamander WHP pump
However if people arnt aware then fried pump is possible through overheating, we cant just restrict the flow, thats like driving ur car with the brakes on