National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: alealex on May 10, 2014, 07:40:45 PM

Title: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 10, 2014, 07:40:45 PM
I'm brewing pilsner ATM:
3,5 pilsner malt
0,5 carapils
0,1 accid malt
not sure which hops to choose, up to the very last minute.
Thinking of perle or magnum + saaz.
Any tips from pilsner brewers out there?
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Eoin on May 10, 2014, 07:55:49 PM
Germans only ever specify bittering and aroma additions, I have never seen a hop variety mentioned by name in their recipes. Either of your combos will work.
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 10, 2014, 08:13:16 PM
Thats what I was thinking either way I'll drink it  :)
Cheers.
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: DEMPSEY on May 10, 2014, 08:17:46 PM
What yeast are you planning
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 10, 2014, 08:22:24 PM
Nothing fancy, something dry. Lets say it is spontaneous brewing so no time for starter..  :P
I'll check what's in the fridge..
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 10, 2014, 08:27:44 PM
Choice of Fermentis: s-23 or w-34/70
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Eoin on May 10, 2014, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: alealex on May 10, 2014, 08:27:44 PM
Choice of Fermentis: s-23 or w-34/70

Use w-34\70, it's the most commonly used on German forums I visit.
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Ciderhead on May 10, 2014, 09:00:38 PM
+1 on Yeast if you are going to be lazy, min 2 packs required tho
Be meticulous with process pilsners pick up every fault and will punish you.
Perle or saaz will work.

Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 10, 2014, 09:05:39 PM
Just reading a little about w-34/70 and s-23 and it seems like 34/70 is cleaner.
Would I leave much sugar for them to eat for diacetyl rest?
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 10, 2014, 09:13:25 PM
I've only one pack of 34/70 (and 3 of s23) but only 15 ltrs goes to the fermenter, another gallon to experiment with..
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 10, 2014, 09:54:43 PM
1 gallon goes for red ale with pilsner as base malt  :o
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Ciderhead on May 10, 2014, 10:55:03 PM
I got my w34/70 pitch rate numbers from Beersmith but datasheet says

dosage instructions: 
80 to 120 g/hl for pitching at 12C – 15°C (53-59°F).     
increase dosage for pitching below 12°C (53°F), up to 200 to 300 g/hl at 9°C (48°F)

So if its circa 100g for 100L a 20L batch should be 20g or 2 packs as they are 11.5g.

Is there an exponential with pitch rates?

Really interesting that they require 2-3 times that volume at lower temps, jesus at nearly €5 a packet you'd be broke.
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Ciderhead on May 11, 2014, 12:01:08 AM
I think you are mixing it up with something else, it's 10-15 litres, but you obviously got away with it with no funky flavours from stressing yeast.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/11/amubymyj.jpg)
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Ciderhead on May 11, 2014, 12:44:38 AM

Quote from: Tube on May 11, 2014, 12:28:46 AM
Wow, they must have changed it since I used it last. Alex, what doesn't your pack look like? Mine's the pink sachet like so:

(http://www.saltcitybrewsupply.com/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/a/saflager-w-3470-dry-lager.jpg)

I have emailed them for clarity!
That packet pic is from a reseller and could be a couple of years old though?, anybody got an old packet in their yeast bank?
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Ciderhead on May 11, 2014, 01:14:50 AM
its the same pink colour just a shitty camera phone and supplied by HBC.
I am wondering is the EU and US product different as this 2010 article has the higher pitch rates?
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CD8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fermentis.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F07%2F2010_TT_EN_HD.pdf&ei=875uU92vNq7o7Aas54D4Dg&usg=AFQjCNE5SErbPUkaiztGqrL_iaTF8v6StA&sig2=ecWXv5JknQkxozvEUNM77Q
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 11, 2014, 09:24:48 AM
same pack, bb 09.2014, but it says 11.5g in 20 to 30 litres
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Eoin on May 11, 2014, 09:37:08 AM
Quote from: alealex on May 11, 2014, 09:24:48 AM
same pack, bb 09.2014, but it says 11.5g in 20 to 30 litres

the first one is probably closer to proper pitching rates for lager to be honest.
With lager I'd always rather over than underpitch myself, the results of overpitching are lack of body and thinness....basically lager like qualities :)
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 11, 2014, 09:50:25 AM
Totally agree with you, 20 ok but 30 litres seems quite a lot for a sachet.
In this case it doesn't bother me as its only 15 litres batch.
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: DEMPSEY on May 11, 2014, 12:58:08 PM
I had the same sachet of yeast as yourself. Dosage 11.5 g in 20 to 30 Litres BB 09/2014. I used it to ferment my AWARD winning gold medal Lager ::) Because I had only 1 packet at €5.70 a pack it took a while to get going. Fermented at 12C.
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 11, 2014, 06:17:13 PM
I pitched w-34/70 at 18*C and moved to ferm.fridge set at 11*C.
With my last lager I pitched at 12*C and moved to fridge set to 11*C, took ages to get ferm going and only used 1 sachet of s-23 for 22 litres. After all it fermented down to 1.011 after 18 days on primary.
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Ciderhead on May 11, 2014, 07:44:40 PM
Let us know how long it takes to kick off
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: brenmurph on May 11, 2014, 11:09:53 PM
Mauribrew lager. 1g per 5 litres. Just rehydrate and goes like a rocket.. no issues. Sometimes i wonder about premium expensive products
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Beerbuddha on May 11, 2014, 11:54:49 PM
No more photos of brewday ?
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: brenmurph on May 12, 2014, 12:08:13 AM
Quote from: brenmurph on May 11, 2014, 11:09:53 PM
Mauribrew lager. 1g per 5 litres. Just rehydrate and goes like a rocket.. no issues. Sometimes i wonder about premium expensive products

7 medals in the nationals.... 5 lagers and 2 ales...all with the same yeast...e3.50 a packet ...does 2.2 brews thats ,1.50 per brew....not 12 euros  ::) for a packs of wp whatever
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 12, 2014, 07:42:44 AM
7 medals per 69 entries  :) not bad, change yeast for the good ones and you'll get more medals  ^-^
no more pics, no time to downsize them and don't know how to do it in the first place
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: brenmurph on May 12, 2014, 10:27:37 AM
ah that wasnt us alex...closer to 9 entries not 69 ;)
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 12, 2014, 11:44:39 AM
only joking, my point is I'm not looking at the costs as much cos I only brew once every couple of weeks not couple of brews every day.
ah, some of use are just blessed with plenty of time in hands  ;)
another thing is that I'm only ordering yeast and spec malts twice a year so I'm buying what given shop has in stock. and I rather fill the fermenter with another fresh brew than wash yeast to save time
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: brenmurph on May 12, 2014, 02:18:30 PM
always give me a bell if ur looking for or stuck for ingredients or yeast. As I usually have 4 r 5 beers in fermenters I have some transferring or bottleing most days . So seems as u pass my door 5 times a week do be shy. theres nothing like a fresh vigorous yeast for getting ur brew going. Ive a brewferm lager yeast alive and kicking in HBC's lager kit which will be  transferring tomorow so thats the sort of oppertunity Im talking about. :)
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Beerbuddha on May 12, 2014, 05:36:38 PM
Aleax is stuck .....so am I masher Murphy ! Thing is we have drinking glasses minus beer in them so you keep all the ingredients and have lots of beers for our glasses on Saturday  ;D

As for aleax and his photo sizes it's just not good enough ! 100mill pixels to see a tiny pack of yeast  ::)
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: brenmurph on May 12, 2014, 05:50:54 PM
Ur on our VIP list BB....alex didnt confirm his attendance yet, by ur comments I presume hes heading over with u!

Re beer: We have done 10 all-grains in the past 2 weeks...reason.....I expect my current stock be be gone awol by sunday evening....

no shortage of beer here..looking forward to saturday, sunday and friday :) ;)

Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 13, 2014, 11:00:33 AM
Quote from: CH on May 11, 2014, 07:44:40 PM
Let us know how long it takes to kick off

It took 12-18 h before it started. it is going nicely now at 11*C
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on May 13, 2014, 10:03:26 PM
I know Shane, temp does magic.
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: pob on May 15, 2014, 10:26:09 AM
Quote from: alealex on May 11, 2014, 09:24:48 AM
same pack, bb 09.2014, but it says 11.5g in 20 to 30 litres


Email back from Fermentis today in answer to:

"Hi Fermentis,
Have you changed the dosage rate on your packets for the above yeast in the last 12 months?
Can you advise the best pitching rate and temperature for homebrewers brewing lagers in 25L batches.
Thanks
"

Reply:

From: BOURDALLE Jean-Jacques - SIL <JBL@lesaffre.fr>
Date: 15 May 2014 09:47:29 IST

Subject: TR: Contact from Fermentis website-Pitch Rates W34/70

"Thank you for your email and for your interest in Fermentis products.

The pitching rate for lager type strain as Saflager w34/70 is still 80 to 120 g/hl
Means 20 to 30 g in 25 l fermenter vessel.
The fermentation temperature is from 9 to 22°C (48.2-71.6°F) ideally 12-15°C (53.6-59°F)


Best regards,
Jean-Jacques
"

Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: brenmurph on May 15, 2014, 01:21:41 PM
is that 2 to 3 packets of yeast per standard homebrew batch? at 5.50 a packet?

I brew good lagers for a total cost of  10 euros inc all ingredients, esb and a packet of decent lager yeast.

Just wondering if a homebrew batch is 20-30 grams why not package 30 grams in a yeast sachet instead of 11.5g

Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: donnchadhc on May 15, 2014, 02:06:05 PM
I'd say they're hedging their bets. I'd say two packets in a small starter is what they're really saying, or a packet in a 2 Litre starter. A starter is never a bad idea.
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Eoin on May 18, 2014, 08:19:49 PM
It's lager to get it properly into the zone it needs a big pitch. Liquid is really the way to go for lagers. Or the big packs of 34/70
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: alealex on June 02, 2014, 06:33:50 PM
Another (this time cooperative) pils brewed last week.
after 6days down to 1.012. is it time for diacetyl break?
Would refermentetion in the keg (after about 21 days) work as diacetyl break?
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: Dodge on June 03, 2014, 01:09:12 AM
Personally I like to ferment my lagers at 10C. After a week I'd raise the temp slowly up to 16C for diacetyl rest for the following week.

Taking the lager off the yeast to soon means that the yeast can't clear up any off flavours.

It's easier to taste off flavours in lagers than ales that's why taking it slow with lagers is important
Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: brenmurph on June 04, 2014, 01:08:46 PM
Just went to masterclass in Weihenstephener brewery (oldest still working brewery in the world) very free with their info and descriptors. We had a very close up tour of the brewery and the processes. Very surprised that all their lagers are decocted and fermented at 7c to 10c depending on the exact brew. Stronger lagers lower end of scale. Diacetyl rest also at low temps it seems and they get more time. The brewery have 20 massive conditioning tanks that lager from 3 weeks to 3 months depending on brew in question and surprisingly same lager strain for all lagers.
Very important to take wort off Trub initially but not off yeast as dodge says the yeast is vital to secondary condition. The lager yeasts dont die and  produce off flavours as much as ale fermenting due to the preservative nature of colder temp.

Anyone going to munich dont miss out on Weihenstephen..its a musst...Apart from a a fabulous brewery it is home to Alte Akademie ( the Old university) which is very well preserved and a fully working brewing research centre as well as a commercial brewery where beer is clearly brewed, served and drank with pride. The Old brewery and uni is in the centre of the massive brewing campus ( new campus) of Munich  Technicaluniversity, located in Freising, Munich.

If u wanna brew great lagers go there for a holiday :) you wont regret it if you love beer

Title: Re: Brewing Pilsner
Post by: johnrm on June 04, 2014, 04:03:22 PM
Quote from: brenmurph on June 04, 2014, 01:08:46 PM
...and surprisingly same lager strain for all lagers.
They must have heard about you Bren!