National Homebrew Club Ireland

General Discussions => Brewing Communities => Rebel Brewers => Topic started by: LordEoin on May 11, 2014, 01:21:50 AM

Title: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: LordEoin on May 11, 2014, 01:21:50 AM
Would there be interest in doing a club buy on one of these Off Flavor sample kits for meets? It's $250 but if there's enough interest ths cost could be spread to a few quid per person:
http://www.siebelinstitute.com/products-a-books/sensory-training-kits?page=shop.product_details&category_id=6&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=18 (http://www.siebelinstitute.com/products-a-books/sensory-training-kits?page=shop.product_details&category_id=6&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=18)
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: Garry on May 11, 2014, 01:33:53 AM
Is mise interested  :)
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: johnrm on May 11, 2014, 09:49:48 AM
I think there may be some sort of discount for bjcp.
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: Dr Horrible on May 11, 2014, 12:13:40 PM
I'd be interested as well.
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: LordEoin on May 11, 2014, 12:40:52 PM
looking forward to a drop of Butyricweiser, or Cardlingboard, Metalliller, Horseken.
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: johnrm on May 11, 2014, 04:51:35 PM
Let's get a list going for Cork...
1. LordEoin
2. Garry
3. Dr. Horrible
4. Johnrm
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: Dara on May 23, 2014, 10:18:05 PM
Let's get a list going for Cork...
1. LordEoin
2. Garry
3. Dr. Horrible
4. Johnrm
5. Dara
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: mr hoppy on May 24, 2014, 12:54:59 AM
1. LordEoin
2. Garry
3. Dr. Horrible
4. Johnrm
5. Dara
6. mr hoppy

Need to think about a venue for this as well. I don't think it's going to work at a regular meet up.
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: Will_D on May 24, 2014, 11:18:10 AM
Just a suggestion:

These kits are quite expensive. Each vial iirc makes up 1 litre of doctored beer.

Far too much for a small group of you.

What you could do is just use half of each vial in 500 ml and sell the rest of the kit on to another group!
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: donnchadhc on May 24, 2014, 11:42:23 AM
1. LordEoin
2. Garry
3. Dr. Horrible
4. Johnrm
5. Dara
6. mr hoppy
7. Donnchadhc
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: LordEoin on May 24, 2014, 01:48:35 PM
Quote from: Will_D on May 24, 2014, 11:18:10 AM
Just a suggestion:

These kits are quite expensive. Each vial iirc makes up 1 litre of doctored beer.

Far too much for a small group of you.

What you could do is just use half of each vial in 500 ml and sell the rest of the kit on to another group!

The vials are enough for twenty 50ml samples, so if another club wants to go halves it would be cool.

"The subsidized kit for members costs US$100 (shipping included). A member may order one kit per year at this price. " - http://www.bjcp.org/cep/kits.php (http://www.bjcp.org/cep/kits.php)
What counts as a BJCP member? How many do we have?
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: johnrm on May 26, 2014, 10:54:46 AM
There are about 20 members in waiting.
It should be possible to get the $100 deal.
I have emailed BJCP to see what the story is.

Would a half-day cover this?
24 flavours at 10mins is 4 hours - I reckon it could be done in about 2

Maybe do the off-flavours the afternoon of Monochrome.


Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: BrewCity on June 02, 2014, 10:11:25 PM
Quote from: donnchadhc on May 24, 2014, 11:42:23 AM
1. LordEoin
2. Garry
3. Dr. Horrible
4. Johnrm
5. Dara
6. mr hoppy
7. Donnchadhc
8. BrewCity
9. Jus223
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: johnrm on June 02, 2014, 11:03:13 PM
BJCP have responded saying that I can get the kit for USD100.
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: Garry on June 03, 2014, 09:54:09 AM
Quote from: johnrm on June 02, 2014, 11:03:13 PM
BJCP have responded saying that I can get the kit for USD100.

Does that include delivery?
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: johnrm on June 03, 2014, 10:14:20 AM
Shipping included, but does not cover any import duty etc.
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: Garry on June 03, 2014, 10:41:33 AM
I don't think there is any import duty once it's less that USD200.
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: LordEoin on June 03, 2014, 01:33:19 PM
Lets go ahead and order this so.
With the current interest we're looking at only about a tenner a head + the cost of a slab of ScheissWasserBrau.
We can sort out the fine details later on.
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: Dr Horrible on August 01, 2014, 11:17:10 AM
What's the update on this - Did ye do a tasting the day of Monochrome?  Or is it all (hopefully) still to happen?
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: Garry on August 01, 2014, 12:37:12 PM
We didn't do a tasting at the monochrome comp. So all yet to happen I guess.
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: LordEoin on August 01, 2014, 03:32:38 PM
It's still in the pipeline but hopefully it'll happen eventually
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: HomeBrewWest on August 01, 2014, 08:40:40 PM
Eoin,
I tried using something like this while working on an embedded controller system for controlling consurmer continuous distillation units down under where its legal. We were getting 95.5% ABV of a max theoretical of 96% (due to azeotropic bond with water) but you could still taste and smell lower and higher impurities.

So I got acetaldehyde (boils at 30 something degrees), propy, butyl, amyl, alcohols etc with boiling polnts of up to about 150 oC and tried to figure out by smell what the impurities were.

Total waste of time! Had to use GC testing in the end.

I thing it was because the individual aromas are all overpowering, and its very hard to differentiate between them.

Another issue is that these fusels don't always dissolve, so some float like a microscopic layer of oil on top. You can see it in home made vodka if you look really hard, but I'd imagine its impossible to see on wine or beer. So some can contribute more top aroma than others.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but personally I'd be a bit sceptical.

Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: LordEoin on August 01, 2014, 11:23:08 PM
That's fine if you're trying to simply work out the differences between just different types of alcohol off flavours, but this kit is designed to demonstrate a much wider field of off flavours including :
    Acetaldehyde
    Acetic
    Almond
    Butyric
    Diacetyl
    DMS (Dimethyl Sulfide)
    Earthy
    Mercaptan
    Ethyl acetate
    Ethyl hexanoate
    Spicy
    Metallic
    Geraniol
    Indole
    Isoamyl acetate
    Grainy
    Isovaleric
    Lactic
    Caprylic
    Papery
    Vanilla
    Bitter
    Infection
    Hefeweizen
If you're getting many from that list in a distillery, then there's something very very wrong.

I agree that some of them are probably going to taste very similar, but at least with the little bit of experience you'd be able to identify the main culprits when they pop up in your own beer.
Aparently once you've had a beer that tastes like vomit and baby poo you tend to rememeber the taste of vomit and baby poo for a very long time.
And anyone that finds it difficult to differentiate that beer from one with off flavours of spicy and hefeweizen is probably in the wrong hobby.
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: johnrm on August 03, 2014, 10:03:01 AM
I had enquired about this again in advance of monochrome.
It needs to be ordered online and you need a BJCP ID.
I am still waiting on BJCP ID.
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: Will_D on August 03, 2014, 10:46:30 AM
Quote from: johnrm on August 03, 2014, 10:03:01 AM
I am still waiting on BJCP ID.
Aren't we all !

This waiting for the exam results is getting a bit of a stale joke.

Its been almost 6 months since the exam (8th Feb)
Title: Re: Comprehensive Sensory Training Kit (AKA off flavors)
Post by: HomeBrewWest on August 03, 2014, 12:22:08 PM
Ah, taste! Never thought of that. I was trying to do it by smell alone.