I've been experimenting with gelatin over the last few brews to speed the clarifying of my beer. I seem to have had better success using the powdered gelatin than the leaf. You can buy the stuff in your local megamarket (http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=280932920). €1.49 for 3 brews. So here's what I do:
Sanitise a mug and add an inch or two of cooled boiled water. Sprinkle the gelatin on top and cover with sanitised foil. Leave it rest for 10min or so. Much the same as rehydrating dry yeast.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aQcWX-scbVs/U4-W4H4ROrI/AAAAAAAADvQ/K5fDqwNWzag/w336-h594-no/IMAG0510.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3SyB1mxHWjM/U4-W6VKcquI/AAAAAAAADvc/kU92sCuFPiU/w336-h594-no/IMAG0511.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PUZsxy_SFk8/U4-W_WBjg2I/AAAAAAAADv0/PI6h1ZgZy2o/w336-h594-no/IMAG0513.jpg)
Boil the kettle while you're waiting. If you've got any beer lying around, now's a good time to open one. I'm trying a Coopers Heritage Lager by our own LordEoin. He added his own home grown hops to it an' all. Nice job LE, cheers :)
After 10min you should see that the gelatin has swelled up. I forgot to take a photo of this but it looks like yellow snow (don't eat it). Fill the mug up with water off the boil and give it a stir to dissolve the gelatin. Cover the mug and let it rest for another 10-15min to let it cool and pasterise and stuff.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n5Mi6mu4z-k/U4-Wp0BeRaI/AAAAAAAADuU/j-kieTIIgb0/w336-h594-no/IMAG0519.jpg)
You can add this to your primary, secondary or bottling bucket. I like to add it when racking to secondary, so I use this rest time to sanitise my secondary FV.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ClRQKRr38Z4/U4-WfnI_UII/AAAAAAAADtk/H3fIGYZdogc/w336-h594-no/IMAG0515.jpg)
I just tip the mug of gelatin into the FV and rack the beer on top.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r2AFELN1Rt4/U4-Wr7UwFOI/AAAAAAAADug/wa9csiqXonQ/w336-h594-no/IMAG0520.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6obDNy8Mgj4/U4-WzMD_YSI/AAAAAAAADvE/diUgdivSk28/w336-h594-no/IMAG0523.jpg)
Job done. I find it's best to let it at a cool temperature (below 17'C) for a few days and you should notice the beer is much clearer than when you didn't use finings.
My photo is a terrible example. It's a dark beer and the glass is dirty ::) But trust me, it works.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-31JkNFbp-I4/U5dm7efsQDI/AAAAAAAAD9M/jCEAFuJQFMM/w336-h594-no/IMAG0576.jpg)
Edit: 11/06/2014
The gelatin will leave enough yeast in suspension to allow you to bottle condition (carbonate).
Gelatin is not suitable for herbivores ::)
That glass isn't dirty, just well used :D
does gelatin leave enough yeast for bottle conditioning?
Yep, I've had no problems bottle conditioning using gelatin :)
Great! I might try this so. My hefeweizens keep coming out cloudy!... (runs away) (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Angels_and_Demons/saint-0073.gif)
Great post :) I do the same, just add it in keg.
Does the temp matter ? I was led to believe as close to 0C as possible for best results. Doesn't realy matter i guess as it does the job !
Any one know is the beer suitable for vegetarians if you use gelatin?
Shanna
Quote from: Shanna on June 11, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Any one know is the beer suitable for vegetarians if you use gelatin?
Shanna
Absolutely not. Some might claim that because all the gelatin sinks to the bottom with the other floculated material you're not actually consuming it. It's not just about the ingestion of animal bits but utheir use in the process of making the food stuff.
@BB, I'd say the colder the better. I mentioned <17'C because that's the temperature where most yeasts will start to drop out.
@Shanna, you don't have to tell the lettuce lickers about the gelatin do you? You're giving them free beer FFS! While also providing them with a much needed source of protein :P
vegetarians don't seem to care much when it's in wine. picky odd bunch
Quote from: Shanna on June 11, 2014, 07:17:26 AM
Any one know is the beer suitable for vegetarians if you use gelatin?
Think that you can use agar agar instead of a gelatin and then you'll get a vegeterian friendly drink.
Quote from: Garry on June 11, 2014, 08:41:40 AM
@Shanna, you don't have to tell the lettuce lickers about the gelatin do you? You're giving them free beer FFS! While also providing them with a much needed source of protein :P
I'd strongly disagree, people are veggie for a multitude of reasons, some of them health related.
Still... fining have dropped out and technically are no longer in the beer/wine and don't need to be included in the ingredients.
It's purely a case of 'oh the poor little animals, i won't eat anything that harmed an animal in production'.
each to their own, let em starve.
Quote from: LordEoin on June 12, 2014, 02:24:05 PM
each to their own, let em starve.
Or in this case, let em sober.
@Eoin, I said that tongue in cheek. If someone doesn't eat meat for health reasons, fair enough. But most of the vagitarians I know can't hack the fact that an animal has to die for dinner. Yet have no problems with leather products ::) And I'd guess that they'd have no problems with free beer either.
So to put the issue to bed, gelatin comes from collagen obtained from various animal by-products like bones, cow hides and pig skin. If you have issues with that, don't use it.
BTW, if you use isinglass, that is also a form of collagen obtained from swim bladders of fish. Google it, it's disgusting :P
chitosan is made from shrimp and other seafood shells
Quote from: LordEoin on June 12, 2014, 02:59:02 PM
chitosan is made from shrimp and other seafood shells
Shrimp...
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121205194537/simpsons/images/thumb/7/7f/Mmm.jpg/418px-Mmm.jpg)
It's all well and good to use this in your homebrew when it's for your own consumption or giving it to someone you can tell it has jelly in it, but what about blind tasting in competitions?? You obviously can't state "this next entry is not suitable for vegetarians" cause it's an identifier.. are our competitions suitable for vegetarians?? should we disallow the use of gelatin as a fining in competitions so as not to discriminate?
A beer judge that is unaware of the use of gelatin for fining is like a person with a nut allergy ordering pecan pie.
What about celiacs? Should we put a warning on competition entries saying the beer may contain gluten?
the point about any finings is that they drop out and are removed.
you can use animal based finings and still call something 'suitable for vegetarians'
the snail content of wine is far greater than the finings.
If you really don't want to use animal based finings ( gelatin, isinglass, chitosan, casein,egg albumen, bull's blood) use bentonite.
And if you don't want to risk drinking something that contains them, make all your own beer and wine and don't drink anything made by someone else.
Well for example we Capitals had a mini club competition last week for entries to the summer session it was comp... It was open to everyone who attended to score the beers, not just epicurean bjcp certified judges!! Some non nhc's and non brewers in attendance. If there was gelatin used in any of those beers no one was informed.
I just think that good beer should be able to be enjoyed by everyone.. I value being able to share it with my veggie friends than having clear beer.
Quote from: Garry on June 12, 2014, 03:47:34 PM
A beer judge that is unaware of the use of gelatin for fining is like a person with a nut allergy ordering pecan pie.
What about celiacs? Should we put a warning on competition entries saying the beer may contain gluten?
You're conflating medical condition based food exclusions with choice based ones.
Quote from: ferg on June 12, 2014, 04:35:13 PM
You're conflating medical condition based food exclusions with choice based ones.
No I'm not.
I'm saying that it should be as obvious to a beer judge that some of the beers will have finings as it is obvious that most of the beers will contain gluten.
I could just have easily said put a warning on the bottle that it contains alcohol.
The amount of finings left in the beer is negligable if not zero. It's not worth the argument. Commercial breweries use them too and don't advertise it.
Yup. Cos it's not in the beer. It has dropped out and is removed.
if vegetarians choose to drink any beer or wine, then it's up to them to be educated about it.
It's not up to us to warn them about everything that might at some stage affected an animal.
"Warning! Label adhesive may contain animal derived glue"
"Warning! Crows may have been shot to protect this grain!"
Heh Heh Heh ! I love the discussions that go on here!
Quote from: LordEoin on June 12, 2014, 05:20:28 PM
"Warning! Crows may have been shot to protect this grain!"
lol ;D
Just because it drops out doesnt make it vegan or veggie friendly. Thats not how it works lads. If it an animal product was in the process at any stage then its not vegan or veggie friendly. Yes you should have to label your beer vegan/veggie friendly. Its that way in the food sector. Why would beer be any different? I also think the name & address of manufacture should be on there too. Might enlighten folk to the paddy whack diddly eye mountain water craft beer they bought is actually contract brewed & bottled by X Y & Z. Hopefully beer labeling will come in line with the food sector sooner rather than later.
Don't forget to add your carbon footprint and cleaning chemicals. Important stuff.
i wouldn't label a ham sandwich i made with a warning to protect all the vegetarians out there, deffo won't add it to my beer.
you'd be lucky to get the style and ABV scribbled on a sticker :P
(http://www.bitterwallet.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/zzzw4.jpg)
Ok, so some food labeling is "risk averse", but home-brew, or home-made food isn't and shouldn't be labelled. But (putting aside the possibility that some of us may absolutely despise all veggies) you wouldn't give a veggie you knew and liked a ham sandwich.
FWIW a good friend moved to London and became a veggie and cask freak. I'm not sure he was overly worried about finings. Of course, others might feel differently, and if they do - and you offer them a brew they may well ask in my experience, which is totally ok.
Personally, I'm giving up beer and brewing right now as I'm so outraged by the evil force germination of innocent barley seeds known as "malting" I can't look a pale ale in the head.
(http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/Before_Its_Too_Late.jpg)
Quote from: LordEoin
if vegetarians choose to drink any beer or wine, then it's up to them to be educated about it.
Don't forget to add your carbon footprint and cleaning chemicals. Important stuff.
i wouldn't label a ham sandwich i made with a warning to protect all the vegetarians out there, deffo won't add it to my beer.
you'd be lucky to get the style and ABV scribbled on a sticker :P
Is it really though? how many of us really thoroughly research the products that we buy? And even if you did sometimes there's no way of finding out the truth of the intracies of a production of a good. Like what HB is saying, there are many things (let's stick to food and drink) that are highly objectionable that don't make it on the label, that recent story of slave labour in the Thai fishing industry or the horsemeat debacle are pretty solid illustrations of this. Corporate responsibility should be demanded by us, not sneered at!
You will also see proportionately more finings in use during a competition, than for a home brewers stash.
You can chill clear a home/sharing beer if you are patient, but if you are hitting close to the delivery date for that competition, many are likely to use finings to make the deadline.
@ LordEoin - You can do what you want with your own beer/ham sandwich. As for peanut labeling - Its totally necessary as people with a hypersensitivity to nuts die all the time. You wouldnt want your company to be sued by the deceased's family for want of a little warning label. That would be pretty short sighted no matter how obvious or dumb you may think it is.
Quote from: Garry on June 12, 2014, 05:03:45 PM
Quote from: ferg on June 12, 2014, 04:35:13 PM
You're conflating medical condition based food exclusions with choice based ones.
The amount of finings left in the beer is negligable if not zero. It's not worth the argument. Commercial breweries use them too and don't advertise it.
This is my angle. Commercial breweries should have to state if beers are vegan friendly. No matter how much you dislike or ridicule their lifestyle or dietary choice, producers should have to respect their choices & label their produce accordingly. Im repeating myself now but Il say it again - why should the beer sector be any different to the food sector in respect to labeling??
we can't warn everybody about everything.
people need to take responsibility for themselves and stop making everyone around them change in case they get offended.
Quote from: LordEoin on June 13, 2014, 10:24:34 AM
we can't warn everybody about everything.
people need to take responsibility for themselves and stop making everyone around them change in case they get offended.
I tried to make the point already that imperfect information exists on the part of the consumer. Can you point to a list of vinyards or breweries that don't use gelatin? Or if you're saying you should write to them and ask? Say they take the attitude that gelatin drops out and is therefore not an ingredient so they don't put that in the reply. It is up the producer to be transparent about their product.
(http://i.imgur.com/ocr3PRCl.jpg)
Simple as that lads. Two words.
But thats on a beer that wants to promote it vegan friendliness. Thats fine but if a brewer uses gelatin should he have to put "vegan unfriendly" on his beer? Lets just allow the vegans to look for their labels and if they aren't there then caveat emptor.
Well it would only be unfriendly to ethical vegans. Dietary ones probably wouldnt care. Just put the fining agent used in the ingredients list along with everything else. Its just one extra word on a label.
I think you're giving people too much credit. Just look at the uproar on facebook about Guinness using "fish guts" in their beer. I wouldn't be listing gelatin with my ingredients. Especially as its not an ingredient.
Ethical veganism is a political ideal and I see no more reason to add gelatin to a products labelling than the working conditions of the people who made my phone. Sometimes if you care about something the onus is on you to become informed.
Quote from: Qs on June 13, 2014, 11:39:48 AM
I think you're giving people too much credit. Just look at the uproar on facebook about Guinness using "fish guts" in their beer. I wouldn't be listing gelatin with my ingredients. Especially as its not an ingredient.
Ethical veganism is a political ideal and I see no more reason to add gelatin to a products labelling than the working conditions of the people who made my phone. Sometimes if you care about something the onus is on you to become informed.
No hard feeelings but I really hope you only ever serve to friends and family and don't make the jump to commercial with that attitude.
Does drinking alcohol not help in sterilizing the body ::). When we went chasing wimmen we figured that de mickey could not get a rash if we consumed alot of beer :P.
Quote from: Eoin on June 13, 2014, 12:14:20 PM
Quote from: Qs on June 13, 2014, 11:39:48 AM
I think you're giving people too much credit. Just look at the uproar on facebook about Guinness using "fish guts" in their beer. I wouldn't be listing gelatin with my ingredients. Especially as its not an ingredient.
Ethical veganism is a political ideal and I see no more reason to add gelatin to a products labelling than the working conditions of the people who made my phone. Sometimes if you care about something the onus is on you to become informed.
No hard feeelings but I really hope you only ever serve to friends and family and don't make the jump to commercial with that attitude.
Don't worry Qs, if you ever go commercial and make good beer I'll still buy it regardless of whether you indulge the vegans or not <3
@dempsey - is there truth hidden in this?
Quote from: DEMPSEY on June 13, 2014, 12:35:14 PM
When we went chasing wimmen we figured that de mickey could not get a rash if we consumed alot of beer.
;D
When I can be bothered putting proper labels on my beer I always make sure the following warning is displayed beside the abv: "WARNING: Alcohol makes you witty and attractive".
No one's ever come back to me complaining that they ended the night feeling ugly and no fun. It just works.
-Barry
Quote from: LordEoin on June 13, 2014, 01:40:54 PM
Quote from: Eoin on June 13, 2014, 12:14:20 PM
Quote from: Qs on June 13, 2014, 11:39:48 AM
I think you're giving people too much credit. Just look at the uproar on facebook about Guinness using "fish guts" in their beer. I wouldn't be listing gelatin with my ingredients. Especially as its not an ingredient.
Ethical veganism is a political ideal and I see no more reason to add gelatin to a products labelling than the working conditions of the people who made my phone. Sometimes if you care about something the onus is on you to become informed.
No hard feeelings but I really hope you only ever serve to friends and family and don't make the jump to commercial with that attitude.
Don't worry Qs, if you ever go commercial and make good beer I'll still buy it regardless of whether you indulge the vegans or not <3
@dempsey - is there truth hidden in this?
It's not to do with "indulging" anyone, it also has nothing to do with beer quality, there are lots of reasons people are vegetarian or vegan. I worked in gastronomy for years and allergies and food preferences are a serious subject.
The argument that because it drops out that it's not a constituent of the final beer is a total non-argument.
Also if people need to take responsbility for themselves, how can they do that if uninformed.....your prejudices are stronger than your brain power on this one LE.
Quote from: LordEoin on June 13, 2014, 01:40:54 PM
Quote from: Eoin on June 13, 2014, 12:14:20 PM
Quote from: Qs on June 13, 2014, 11:39:48 AM
I think you're giving people too much credit. Just look at the uproar on facebook about Guinness using "fish guts" in their beer. I wouldn't be listing gelatin with my ingredients. Especially as its not an ingredient.
Ethical veganism is a political ideal and I see no more reason to add gelatin to a products labelling than the working conditions of the people who made my phone. Sometimes if you care about something the onus is on you to become informed.
No hard feeelings but I really hope you only ever serve to friends and family and don't make the jump to commercial with that attitude.
Don't worry Qs, if you ever go commercial and make good beer I'll still buy it regardless of whether you indulge the vegans or not <3
@dempsey - is there truth hidden in this?
Free sausage roll with every purchase.
Sausages will also be vegan unfriendly.
Quote from: Eoin on June 13, 2014, 01:49:32 PM
Quote from: LordEoin on June 13, 2014, 01:40:54 PM
Quote from: Eoin on June 13, 2014, 12:14:20 PM
Quote from: Qs on June 13, 2014, 11:39:48 AM
I think you're giving people too much credit. Just look at the uproar on facebook about Guinness using "fish guts" in their beer. I wouldn't be listing gelatin with my ingredients. Especially as its not an ingredient.
Ethical veganism is a political ideal and I see no more reason to add gelatin to a products labelling than the working conditions of the people who made my phone. Sometimes if you care about something the onus is on you to become informed.
No hard feeelings but I really hope you only ever serve to friends and family and don't make the jump to commercial with that attitude.
Don't worry Qs, if you ever go commercial and make good beer I'll still buy it regardless of whether you indulge the vegans or not <3
@dempsey - is there truth hidden in this?
It's not to do with "indulging" anyone, it also has nothing to do with beer quality, there are lots of reasons people are vegetarian or vegan. I worked in gastronomy for years and allergies and food preferences are a serious subject.
The argument that because it drops out that it's not a constituent of the final beer is a total non-argument.
Also if people need to take responsbility for themselves, how can they do that if uninformed.....your prejudices are stronger than your brain power on this one LE.
ooh, personal attacks against members! go admin yourself or something.
there is no requirement to put finings on the ingredients, or mark things 'suitable for vegans'. Adding or omitting those things is done for marketing, to sell more to vegans. most non vegans don't particularly care.
I'd still call it indulging the vegans.
There should be a requirement though. Thats the point Im trying to make. Hard to get that across though with petty arguments & sausage rolls being thrown about the place. Im not a vegan or vegetarian. It doesnt effect me one bit. I just think that as a consumer all the ingredients should be on there incl any animal parts or process used. I also think that the name & address of the manufacturer should be on there too. None of this brewed in the EU bollix or wishy washy descriptions on contract brewed stuff. Its not a lot to ask is it? And Im amazed how strongly opposed ye are to it.
Some of you clearly have issues or prejudices against leaf eaters as the tone in some of your posts is juvenile at times. Not what Id expect from grown men. I tried to steer the thread into a discussion about label requirements on beer but some of you keep dragging it back to a fuck the vegans type argument. I dont know why Im even bothering here. I usual dont bother posting on stuff like this as you always get the same replies. Enjoy the weekend lads.
How about carbon dioxide, nitrogen and a mineral profile of the water?
I think it's funny nobody spotted Garry's typo.
I'm sure vegetarian and vagitarian are polar opposites...
Jokes aside, there are 2 sides to the argument and no sense in falling out over it.
We are not commercial so labelling at our level is up to the individual brewer. Generally I am present when others are coming my beer, so will advise ingredients. The only fining I use is Irish moss, vegetarians more than likely swallow particles this while swimming.
While after the fact, I am disappointed that no competition winners posted their recipes or techniques. This should have shown the presence of offending ingredients, although might not have shown that peanut butter or duck liver pate was made in the pot immediately previously.
Quote from: Hop Bomb on June 13, 2014, 05:37:14 PM
There should be a requirement though. Thats the point Im trying to make. Hard to get that across though with petty arguments & sausage rolls being thrown about the place. Im not a vegan or vegetarian. It doesnt effect me one bit. I just think that as a consumer all the ingredients should be on there incl any animal parts or process used. I also think that the name & address of the manufacturer should be on there too. None of this brewed in the EU bollix or wishy washy descriptions on contract brewed stuff. Its not a lot to ask is it? And Im amazed how strongly opposed ye are to it.
In a commercial context I'd agree with you - but outside of Marks and Spencers it's just not that way with alcoholic beverages - if you feel strongly about it maybe you could get the Beoir guys to take the issue up?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/food-babe-petitions-beer-makers-disclose-additives/story?id=24085296
FFS lads, I take a day off to go to a wedding and ye go mad ::)
Time to get this train back on the rails. I started this thread to show people how to add gelatin to homebrewed beer. If I wrote "leave the beer in cold storage for 6 months, the end", I think a lot of people would be disappointed and wouldn't read my threads again.
Company transparency etc is off topic. But it is an interesting debate, so I'd suggest starting a new topic.
As for beer labels, it's your homebrew, put what you like on the label if you label at all. BTW hopbomb, the barcode on the label you posted is cool. Good design.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the vegicans because both sides are just repeating themselves now. Your points have been made. Move on or start a new thread.
As for juvenile behaviour, if this place starts taking itself too seriously, I'm out of here :o
And on that bombshell: @johnrm, it wasn't a typo ;)
http://www.newsweek.com/fish-swim-bladders-improve-beer-and-now-heal-wounds-245888
:D
I see where you're going with that. Get one of those fish swim bladder dressings and use it to filter your beer. Sparkling beer straight from the primary. Genius O0
sorry to hijack the thread but while i was looking at that stuff I found this as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YzxTnA4hV0
That was interesting alright. Did you see the size of the fish ???
Quote from: mr hoppy on June 14, 2014, 12:34:54 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/food-babe-petitions-beer-makers-disclose-additives/story?id=24085296
I was just reading this about her earlier http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/new-yellow-journalism/
As for the vegan thing I think people are getting a bit over heated about the whole thing. RDWHAHB :)
Nice rebuttal.
Just to be clear, I only put that up because I stumbled across it and thought it was topical to the off-topic stuff on here.
And moving even further off topic, apparently not fining at all is the new thing.
http://tandlemanbeerblog.blogspot.ie/2014/01/not-fan.html
I like the odd murky beer, it looks 'nutritious'. Also it means i get to wind SWMBO up saying the yeast is probiotic and I should have one a day ;D
Wine on the other hand... I used to wait roughly a million years for them to get crystal clear on their own, but beer has made me impatient and for all the reasons on that blog a stubborn wine gets blasted with gelatin, chitosan, bentonite, or whatever works best for that particular wine.