Hi Folks, tried an all grain kit from Brupak - Bavarian Weiss at the weekend. BIAB method. (1st time...!!)
Had some bubble action yesterday but it seems to have died down today, no bubbles or Kruezen.
So I mixed up Mauibrew yeast in starter - boiled up some DME light, cooled and pitched the yeast during initial mash time.
Kept it moving until pitch time after boiling and cooling the wort. Thing is it took ages to get the main batch down from 28 to ~20deg so I pitched a couple of hours later. Would it have settled beyond the aeration given when I transferred to FV?
Should I just shake up FV again?
Should I re-pitch with some more yeast? (Maybe follow the website instructions this time to just use warm water to activate yeast, instead of trying to get all fancy....)
Any ideas/advice?
Cheers
I'd shake the shit out of it and give it another couple of days. If there's still no action repitch.
You shouldn't use DME for your rehdryated yeast though. Maybe you read the online How To Brew which suggests it but the dry yeast companies said don't and now HTB has been amended. Just rehydrate in future.
What temp is it at now?
You'd be better gently stirring with a sanitised spoon rather than shaking it up to minimise oxygenation.
Give it another day it's not that unusual not to see any activity in the first 48hrs. First stage of yeast growth is using the available oxygen to reproduce. When it's all gone they start producing co2 and you see activity. The more healthy yeast in the packet the quicker it is.
Thanks for the tips, I'll give it another day if nothing I'll try the agitation and see if it takes. Looks like I killed a good yeast though...! ...You live & learn...
Quote from: irish_goat on July 15, 2014, 12:19:23 AM
You'd be better gently stirring with a sanitised spoon rather than shaking it up to minimise oxygenation.
Would oxygenation be an issue yet? If it hasn't started fermenting really wouldn't you just be aerating it more? If it has started fermenting wouldn't the FV be full of CO2?
I shook my carboy up like mad last week because my fermentation was taking its time, hope I didn't oxygenate it.
Just a question on what temp you mashed at. If you were too high then you may have too much dextrins and not enough maltose for fermenting so the yeast have nothing to chew on :-\
adding more oxygen would delay the ferment. it is sometimes done very strong beers to make sure you have enough yeast growth
OG could be a factor too, dry yeast will take a bit longer to hydrate in a sugar solution then in water
I was reading Graham Wheeler's "British Real Ale" recently. He encourages giving the beer a good stir 2 or 3 days into fermentation to re-aerate the wort. He reckons if you are NOT using pure O2 then the yeast will have used up all the available oxygen at this stage and needs more. You won't oxidise the beer because the yeast will use up the oxygen. I haven't tried it though.
@dn218, I used this kit as my first BIAB too. The bag I used was too small though, and I didn't get all the extract out of the grain. The beer ended up being 2.5% instead of 5% :(
yea you are probably safe from oxidation up until the point you get to your finishing gravity but yeast behave differently with oxygen and will produce different flavours so dont go overboard. there is no quick answer; a quick fermentation is a comination of yeast numbers, yeast health, oxygen levels, nutrients available, tempertaure and probably one or two other things im forgetting
Rocking the FV wouldn't give you too much oxygen though would it? I've Jamil Z or Johm Palmer saying people have over aerated but he was talking about adding loads and loads of pure oxygen.
no. you cant shake that much oxygen into it. but thats usually when you fill the FV. shaking at a later date could have adverse affects
Thanks everybody, still no life this evening in the FV so contemplating Irish_goats suggestion of sanitised spoon.
Thanks for the affinity message too Garry, for a first AG kit it's sparse on info isn't it? Gives one of 4 fermentation options then says check the label for which one to use.....guess what, label says f-all!
Mash was on the high temp side Dempsey, started at 77deg and it stayed ~70-67 by the end. I got woeful efficiency too, tried to mash in at 26 litres over flowed the pot and had to take nearly a litre away when grain went in. So I am left with 18litres in the FV now and dead as a do-do. OG is fairly high too 1045...
This'll be one to tell the kids about.....
Quote from: dn218 on July 15, 2014, 06:51:28 PM
Mash was on the high temp side Dempsey, started at 77deg and it stayed ~70-67 by the end. I got woeful efficiency too, tried to mash in at 26 litres over flowed the pot and had to take nearly a litre away when grain went in.
It sounds like you have a heavy, starch, rich wort with every few fermetable sugars. Do you know about the Iodine test (se below)
I would get some alpha-amylase from the LHBS and pictch in a goodly amount. This MAY just cleave the long chain poly-saccs that your high temp mash didn't!
[Iodine test]
Buy a small bottle of "tincture of Iodine" from the local Pharmacy. This a brown liquid, and it is VERY sensitive to starch (aka: unconverted malts and stuff), if there is starch the liquid turns blue. Put a drop on a cut spud and you will see a blue dot. So you test the mash after say 60 mins to see if it turns blue or stays brown.
BTW: It is a powerful antiseptic (thats why they sell it) but use it on a cut or graze and it stings like fekk (but its a good sting)
Thanks Will_D I have seen the iodine test used (and I'm old enough to remember it used on cuts and grazes, started the tears off again when we were kids almost as bad as getting the graze in the 1st place!) I'll look into the alpha amylase see if it is at all salvageable.
Got my hands on some Alfa amylase and some iodine (following an interesting conversation in the chemist about thyroid...) so I put in recommended amount on Friday evening and it Sunday evening now, the fermentation is still stuck, but I tested with iodine and not a trace of blue. The wort smelt amazing tho' the banana clovey notes really coming through but no activity.....I got me a bottle of hefe yeast when buying the amylase, anybody recommend a re-pitch at this stage (7 days later)? Or just notch it up to experience and pitch the FV down the drain?
What does your hydrometer say?
Is there any chance the lid on your fermenter isn't fully sealed?
Top is on solid Damo, the hydrometer reading is 1020 so it's come in from 1045, but it's just stuck....(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/22/yqubynup.jpg)
Had a taste and the original yeast has definitely taking hold really tastes like a flat Weiss that's why I'm reticent about re-pitching as It'll be too much...
#PitchorDitch??!
Hi Dn
Ok, you've nothing to lose at this stage ::)
It's been fermenting 8-9 days at this stage, leave it go another week or so. It might drop a little more.
Prime and bottle as normal, it's not a lost cause just yet!
Keep us posted
Got it down to 1015 so bottled tonight (finally) still a phenol banana hit off it so I'm hopeful. Had no dextrose so cooked up a batch of DME (about 220g) in 260ml to add for a hopeful carbonation of ~3.8.... We'll see....Had some big White Gypsy bottles ready so I filled & added some candu sugar to help the shit out of the carbonation..... Give it a week or two see what frankenkaner might turn up!!!! May call this one Lazarus....
at 1.015 they probably would have carbed themselves without all the DME and candy sugar.
Keep the bottles low and somewhere that glass shrapnel and spraying beer won't do any damage, just in case.
yep - patience.....
Did you give it a good shake and then take O.G readings a couple of days apart before bottling to make sure it has stopped fermenting?
I usually ferment for 2 weeks, and most definitely give the beer a good stir / shake during the process - and never had any adverse affects as a result.
Sounds like a lot of priming sugar there - keep your bottles in a safe place as LordEoin has said. Most likely this will now be over-carbonated.
Outdoors in a box lined with bubble wrap!!!! ;-)
Just a quick update on Lazarus weisse. It has retained its Weiss flavours (along with another few tastes & notes as a result of amylase + crazy racking and bottling!!) it's passable I think for a 1st AG attempt - I will let my peers/betters be the judge at the next Sth Dub meet!! Interestingly enough no bottle bombs. The flip tops that had only DME young beer are mildly carbonated the PET ones I popped a candy granule or two into were as carbonated as I would expect making it pretty drinkable (& that's the goal) So still revving up for BIAB II the American Pale Ale, but I thought I'd do a kit in between to keep myself honed (and stocked) thanks again for all pointers and advice.
Quote from: dn218 on August 20, 2014, 12:01:20 AM
Just a quick update on Lazarus weisse. It has retained its Weiss flavours (along with another few tastes & notes as a result of amylase + crazy racking and bottling!!) it's passable I think for a 1st AG attempt - I will let my peers/betters be the judge at the next Sth Dub meet!! Interestingly enough no bottle bombs. The flip tops that had only DME young beer are mildly carbonated the PET ones I popped a candy granule or two into were as carbonated as I would expect making it pretty drinkable (& that's the goal) So still revving up for BIAB II the American Pale Ale, but I thought I'd do a kit in between to keep myself honed (and stocked) thanks again for all pointers and advice.
Hope to taste this at the South Dublin meet next week. I will have a spiced wit beer to compare against.
Shanna
Look forward to the wit beer Declan!
Quote from: dn218 on August 20, 2014, 07:44:10 AM
Look forward to the wit beer Declan!
Me too although it will only be carbonated for about 10 days (getting excuses in early :))
Shanna