Just found Ciderheads group but this evening so I'm seriousy considering buying 25L of juice but need to make my mind up quickly. I dont want to ferment using natural yeasts so what yeast would a cidermaker normally use? Also, everyone seems to use campden tablets, I think to kill wild yeasts, can someone explain please? Do I really need campden and how soon after delivery do I need to use it?
Thanks
QuoteJust found Ciderheads group but this evening so I'm seriousy considering buying 25L of juice but need to make my mind up quickly. I dont want to ferment using natural yeasts so what yeast would a cidermaker normally use? Also, everyone seems to use campden tablets, I think to kill wild yeasts, can someone explain please? Do I really need campden and how soon after delivery do I need to use it?
Thanks
Ok Lars I was just about to post something to start this debate. Page 2 of the Irish Cider juice post has links to brewing cider
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1351114855/15
As with Beers check your gravity min of 1.040, you can bump it up with caster sugar, but I try not to make rocket fuel. :P
Now for the debate;
Traditionally nothing is added to the apple juice to turn it into cider, as the natural yeasts in the apples will turn the sugars into alcohol.
However this can be risky I always use a Campden Tablet(2 crushed per 5 Gal) left for 48hrs, Murderer I hear you cry :'( This has the advantage of subduing some wild yeasts and bacteria and reduces spoilage in the cider.
Then by either adding a general purpose wine(some use champagne) or I use Youngs cider yeast.
Youngs cider yeast is actually a champagne yeast and will ferment at low temperatures (e.g. 10C).
Keep the fermenting cider at a steady temperature of around 15-18 Degrees, the cooler the better.
Fermentation can take anything from 10 days to 10 weeks.Cider is best fermented at low temperatures anyway, in order not to lose the aromas from the apples and the yeast.
I also historically used pectic enzyme to clear, just before the yeast, (I read somewhere it needs 20 Degrees for 12 hours) but you do lose something in the flavour, even though some prefer crystal clear. (This year one with and one without)
:-* doesn't like "the muddy stuff"
It should ferment down to 1.0 or even below not like some of the Muntons Autumn Blush kits I did a couple of years back which were all done at 1.014
Anybody else got some words of wisdom or personal experience for Lars
no words of wisdom - but a few more q's to add - Don't mind cloudy cider -have ayoungs cider yeast - so gonna fling that in - should I get some nutrient for it ? - intend on leaving it sit for a few months
also have the yeast packet with a while - was in a box in the shed - would the frosty weather of late have effected it ? (its well within its use by date)
Think I'll be adding myself to the list. Anyone ever try the stovetop pasteurisation technique over on hbt?
Quoteno words of wisdom - but a few more q's to add - Don't mind cloudy cider -have ayoungs cider yeast - so gonna fling that in - should I get some nutrient for it ? - intend on leaving it sit for a few months
also have the yeast packet with a while - was in a box in the shed - would the frosty weather of late have effected it ? (its well within its use by date)
Yeast will be fine as long a its not been compromised and you can hear it rustle, it isn't wet?
I always carry spares :)
My experience is that nutrient isn't necessary and i would only ever consider if I saw my fermentation stall, which has never happened.
My longest cider ferment was 4 weeks, and 6 months in the bottle, I've gotta stop now I'm salivating [smiley=beer.gif]
QuoteThink I'll be adding myself to the list. Anyone ever try the stovetop pasteurisation technique over on hbt?
Whats that?
I did pasteurise 10 bottles of juice with swingtops for half and hour in a big Stainless pot for juice for the kids once, it was a right PITA as temp had to be over 75 but not greater than 90.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/
QuoteYeast will be fine as long a its not been compromised and you can hear it rustle, it isn't wet?
Dry as a bone - sealed in the packet in a bag in a box -in a shed ! - I was just afraid that the Low Temps in the Shed over recent time may have done something to it
Quotehttp://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/
Very Good, similar to cold crashing then?
I would probably be a bit nervous about putting sealed bottles into hot water.
QuoteOk, I'm starting to panic now!
What would I need to make a medium dry cider from this juice? I'll buy whatever I don't have. TIA.
Pasteurise it and backsweeten. The proper way to do it is a method called "Keeving" or "cuivage" as the French would call it, but you need the pulp to still be present to form the "chapeau brun" which is the brown cap that is formed on top of the apple juice as part of the cuivage process. If you search there is a good site out there on the subject, but you'll need to get the juice right from source with some apple solids in it still to do this method.
QuoteOk, I'm starting to panic now!
What would I need to make a medium dry cider from this juice? I'll buy whatever I don't have. TIA.
Don't panic :o
Have a quick read of that link on page 2 of the post on the buying page
When making cider you need a mix of sweet and tart apples to get get a balance between medium and Dry, too sweet in the mix and its to dry.
At this stage all you need is yeast and campden tablets or you can risk it and let it go itself.
We are getting a blend which will ferment out to Medium-Dry. If its too dry as Eoin says you can easily backsweeten.
QuoteQuote
I would probably be a bit nervous about putting sealed bottles into hot water.
Tunnel pasteurisers spray capped bottles with hot water. Quite common. Galway Hooker is pasteurised this way for example.
Not using my Missus stove they don't! ;)
I just put on a lidl cider the other day, 25l of the non-cloudy juice, a large mug of very strong tea, a kilo of spraymalt and 1.5kg of honey. I've got some stevia powder there and am thinking of sweetening with that when I get that far. I can't stand normal sweeteners but Stevia should be ok, once not too much of the menthol type taste comes through. I'll let you know.
QuoteI just put on a lidl cider the other day, 25l of the non-cloudy juice, a large mug of very strong tea, a kilo of spraymalt and 1.5kg of honey. I've got some stevia powder there and am thinking of sweetening with that when I get that far. I can't stand normal sweeteners but Stevia should be ok, once not too much of the menthol type taste comes through. I'll let you know.
Wow never heard of Stevia, nice one I have to go looking for it now, I tended to just use splenda on the few drinkers that prefer my medium-dry, sweet or if I knew it was well finished added apple juice which defeats the purpose and dilutes the % :(.
With the spraymalt will you not get malty flavours coming through?
QuoteQuoteI just put on a lidl cider the other day, 25l of the non-cloudy juice, a large mug of very strong tea, a kilo of spraymalt and 1.5kg of honey. I've got some stevia powder there and am thinking of sweetening with that when I get that far. I can't stand normal sweeteners but Stevia should be ok, once not too much of the menthol type taste comes through. I'll let you know.
Wow never heard of Stevia, nice one I have to go looking for it now, I tended to just use splenda on the few drinkers that prefer my medium-dry, sweet or if I knew it was well finished added apple juice which defeats the purpose and dilutes the % :(.
With the spraymalt will you not get malty flavours coming through?
You don't get a lot with 1kg malt, the main reason for it is to leave some unfermentables so it won't be so dry. I make it a bit stronger normally to allow for the dilution, hence the honey and spraymalt.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI just put on a lidl cider the other day, 25l of the non-cloudy juice, a large mug of very strong tea, a kilo of spraymalt and 1.5kg of honey. I've got some stevia powder there and am thinking of sweetening with that when I get that far. I can't stand normal sweeteners but Stevia should be ok, once not too much of the menthol type taste comes through. I'll let you know.
Wow never heard of Stevia, nice one I have to go looking for it now, I tended to just use splenda on the few drinkers that prefer my medium-dry, sweet or if I knew it was well finished added apple juice which defeats the purpose and dilutes the % :(.
With the spraymalt will you not get malty flavours coming through?
You don't get a lot with 1kg malt, the main reason for it is to leave some unfermentables so it won't be so dry. I make it a bit stronger normally to allow for the dilution, hence the honey and spraymalt.
To me that spraymalt sounds mad but I would love to swap a bottle with you in the new year. :)
Quote
To me that spraymalt sounds mad but I would love to swap a bottle with you in the new year. :)
Yeah we can have a look at that, although I don't envision putting much of it in bottles, I'd be tending towards putting it in kegs or vinotainers. I'll see what way it turns out.
Found a great little vid about basic Cider making and more complex additions :)
http://vimeo.com/48954331
Have you heard of the addition of a leg of lamb? Something to do with proteins.
In Hereford if there was no Lamb protein available a dead rat would be "yer only man"
Will
Ps: The protein addition was to help clear the cider "allegedly"
Will
QuoteIn Hereford if there was no Lamb protein available a dead rat would be "yer only man"
Will
Ps: The protein addition was to help clear the cider "allegedly"
Will
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
In the Westcoutry they only use Grey Squirrel
so... with Cider head being @ an hour or so out - I need to think of where to put this for the next few months.
I'm considering fermenting it in the brew Box in the house fro @ two weeks - normal room temps apply - then fling it up into the attic for the next few months - house got insulated last year - so could get pretty cold over the next few months
any thoughts - opinions - should I not do this ?
Quoteso... with Cider head being @ an hour or so out - I need to think of where to put this for the next few months.
I'm considering fermenting it in the brew Box in the house fro @ two weeks - normal room temps apply - then fling it up into the attic for the next few months - house got insulated last year - so could get pretty cold over the next few months
any thoughts - opinions - should I not do this ?
I'd also like to know the answers to the above, and what's the best procedure for adding yeast.
[olist]
- Camden Tablet tonight
- Peptic Enzyme tomorrow?
- Yeast tomorrow?
[/olist]
What's peptic enzyme? Do I need it? I only bought Camden and yeast
according to John you fling in the peptic enzyme before the yeast - helps clear the cloudyness - im not pushed either way with that
I have @ 3 - 3 teaspoons of camden powder - think ill fling this into it tonight - leave for @48 hours - then maybe draw off enough for a demi john - to have head space and just use the container to ferment in (experiment in the demi)
Have just received my 50L :)
Some stats:
Gravity(hydrometer) = 1.051
gravity(Refractometer) = 1048
pH @ 13C 3.80
So its a great full bodied cider juice but may need a bit more acidity.
Taste of the fresh juice is superb!
Colour is a cloudy, slightly browned, rosé colour - Lovely
Lets get cider making
BTW: A crapity smacking great big thank you to John for organising this and delivering!!
Will
The OG of my batch was 1.050.
The juice tasted completely different from juice I pressed with a friend last year. Ours tasted like shop bought freshly squeezed juice, with a real acidic bite. The Apple Farm juice is much sweeter, much earthier and very dense. I agree with Will that it might need some more acidity, but I also think it'll make a perfect base for a really good cider.
I decided not to use campden tablets or add any extra tannins. I just pitched two packets of Young's cider yeast in separate carboys. I also set some of the juice aside in a demijohn to let it ferment spontaneously. Very interested to see how this turns out.
Thanks for all the effort John! I owe you some barrel aged double IPA (once I get around to bottling it!).
QuoteHave just received my 50L :)
Some stats:
Gravity(hydrometer) = 1.051
gravity(Refractometer) = 1048
pH @ 13C 3.80
So its a great full bodied cider juice but may need a bit more acidity.
Taste of the fresh juice is superb!
Colour is a cloudy, slightly browned, rosé colour - Lovely
Lets get cider making
BTW: A crapity smacking great big thank you to John for organising this and delivering!!
Will
Will and Jacob thanks for the stats I checked and concur its about 1.048 which if that drops to 1.000 we will be over 6% , and I was going to give a bump not now :o ?
For Cider Virgins just be careful on the acidity as you can overcook it;
Based on the attached I would say we are where we need to be.
http://www.wineworks.co.uk/content/cider-making-made-easy/
Lads, are you going to ferment that juice in the barrel or decant it first to the fermentation vessel aka plastic bucket?
QuoteLads, are you going to ferment that juice in the barrel or decant it first to the fermentation vessel aka plastic bucket?
I'm going to ferment via the container it came in. I might drill a hold in the cap for an airlock or blowoff tube though.
I added my campden tablets yesterday, so will leave it about 36 to 48 hours before I pitch a champagne yeast.
QuoteLads, are you going to ferment that juice in the barrel or decant it first to the fermentation vessel aka plastic bucket?
I've added Campden tablets. Will wait 24 hours or so and then pour into fermenters ( I need the empty containers already )
I will add nutrients and a pinch of pectolayse.
I will pitch with the trub from a batch of Chardonnay that I've just done.
Initial ferment will be warm ( about 20C ) to get the yeast going. Then will go cooler ( about 16C ) until most of the initial fermentation has subsided then it will be outside for the winter at whatever temps we get.
In Feb will have a look at it and take it from there
Will
Are you going to leave it in fermenter on primary to Feb?
QuoteAre you going to leave it in fermenter on primary to Feb?
No - sorry should have been a bit clearer.
The in-house primary fermentation are done in 5 gallon fermenters. After the vigourous primary had died down (probably 2 or 3 weeks) then they are racked into the custom designed "Stainless Steel 11 gallon out door fermentor" ( read Keg + plus airlock )
Will
ok :)
What temperatures are you guys fermenting at? I hear 15C a lot with regard to cider, my own lidl job is on at 15c at the moment and going like the clappers (almost done now). I'll be leaving it at 15c as well for the whole period.
I have no temp control to speak of - so I guess room temp - I'll just knock off the radiator in that room
Discovered a homebrew section in tesco Maynooth today and they had pectin enzyme so I picked some up. How do I use it? Just a couple of teaspoons in before I pitch the yeast or what?
Thx
Quote
Woohoo. Heading to Tesco shortly and I knew there was something I forgot!
yes!! My reaction too, fermentors, crown caps, airlocks etc. I recently ran out of crown caps an had to order online
Update:
When John said "25L of Juice" he was not joking. Weighed one on the containers and it was about 27Kg. Allowing 1kg for the container and a bit for the gravity we got one whole lot of juice!!
So much so that my two 5 gallon FV are comfortably full as are two deimijohns.
So as mentioned above: The two 5 gallon batches were sulphited ( on arrival), pectic enzyme added in morning, and this evenning added nutrients and pitched with chardonnay yeast trub. The 2 demijohns the same but split one of the Youngs cider yeasts that John so kindly gave me.
Now starting off at about 20C to get the first vigorous fermentation, then its cool down time
Will
Still not clear on how /when and how much pectic enzyme to use. Can someone explain please. I added campden 24hrs ago and intend adding yeast tomorrow evening. How much and when dining add pectic enzyme? Also , do I need to boil it or is it sterile?
QuoteStill not clear on how /when and how much pectic enzyme to use. Can someone explain please. I added campden 24hrs ago and intend adding yeast tomorrow evening. How much and when dining add pectic enzyme? Also , do I need to boil it or is it sterile?
It should say the dosage on the container. I had just enough for a teaspoon and a half to the 5 gallons.
Technically as its an enzyme that actual amount 1, 2 or 3 teaspoon fulls shouldn't matter.
You add the enzyme, leave a day then pitch the yeast. Enzymes work best at room temperature and the alcohol will enventually inhibit them.
You don't boil the juice as this would ruin the flavour. Whilst it is not sterile this is how cider is made. Relax it will turn out just fine.
Will
Apart from anything else, boiling will probably denature the enzyme and cause it to be useless.
Is this stuff best bulk aged in plastic or bottled(and maybe primed) and allowed to age in bottles?
Thanks
QuoteIs this stuff best bulk aged in plastic or bottled(and maybe primed) and allowed to age in bottles?
Thanks
Bulk aging is always better as a rule.
Bulk age in a Carboy if you can, have a look here (http://www.ciderworkshop.com/howtomake.html) and here (http://www.ciderworkshop.com/equipment_storage.html) for storage.
Couple of days ago my 50 L was put into a large SS Keg (from a defunct brwery) with an air lock and kicked outside like a Spartan baby to survive or die.
Primary took about 10 days at 16C, dropped to about 1.010 and so I want it off the trub ( to reduce available protein nitogen and so may be yeast activity slows way down to yield a natural "not dry" cider. )
"I will survive" is the song I sing to it every day.
It will live outsider till beginning of Feb whwn all sorts of secret processes will be applied for the cider section of the NHC comp
Will
QuoteQuote
It will live outsider till beginning of Feb whwn all sorts of secret processes will be applied for the cider section of the NHC comp
Will
I believe the 1st place for the Cider section winner is an all expenses paid trip for two to New York with €1000 spending money*
* May not be true
Ah Feckit then I'll just drink the stuff.
SWMBO will NOT set foot in USA
Put mine to secondary 2nite. Lovely stuff. Semi-dry, very happy witt the results.
Added some cider yeast. Don't remember gravity, but it end up low. Abv is around 6%.
I took 1.048 as a og. Even if it was 1.040 wont complain cause it's nice :)
I measured my Og as between 1050 and 52 ( refractometer v. hydrometer ) so I think Jacob is right in there with the 1048
Will
yeah - I got 1.048 on mine too
QuoteCouple of days ago my 50 L was put into a large SS Keg (from a defunct brwery) with an air lock and kicked outside like a Spartan baby to survive or die.
Primary took about 10 days at 16C, dropped to about 1.010 and so I want it off the trub ( to reduce available protein nitogen and so may be yeast activity slows way down to yield a natural "not dry" cider. )
"I will survive" is the song I sing to it every day.
It will live outsider till beginning of Feb whwn all sorts of secret processes will be applied for the cider section of the NHC comp
Will
So that Will doesn't run away with prize at NHC Competition you can all have a look here (http://vimeo.com/48954331) after 12 minutes about back sweetening, adding oak, or in Wills case why there are no rats in his neighbourhood :o
Here's what I did!
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s396/DamianFahy/IMG_0285.jpg)
8 demi-johns and 16 bottles
At this stage the cider tastes great. a very nice medium dryness, a slight tanic after taste and a mustyish bite to it.
I think conditioning will work magic on this gear, I cant wait.
Nah, dont think so.
I checked gravity today and it was sitting at 1.000.
It was fairly quite on the airlock, maybe blowin off every 8-10mins or so
Ok chaps just checked mine tonight and its gone to 1.01, 6.3% [smiley=cheesy.gif] phew!
Its still actively bubbling every minute or so and don't forget cider can potentially drop to 0.995.(7%) [smiley=beer.gif]
At those sort of strengths gives you plenty of options to back sweeten or juice additions.
Into carboys for bulk aging now next weekend and then into the shed, then we will see what falls out.
QuoteHere's what I did!
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s396/DamianFahy/IMG_0285.jpg)
8 demi-johns and 16 bottles
At this stage the cider tastes great. a very nice medium dryness, a slight tanic after taste and a mustyish bite to it.
I think conditioning will work magic on this gear, I cant wait.
Damo do you still need those extra demi's?
No, Thanks John.
I've still got 1 spare. decided to bottle a few from each fermenter.
Just over a week ago mine was at 1.008, about 4 days ago it was at 1.003, so yesterday I transferred it back into the original container it came in to store in the shed for the winter. I had a 1.5L container beside it that I didnt put any yeast in just to let it go naturally and it turned into vinegar, big jelly skin on top, the works. My worry is, seen as I underdosed the original with campden(2 tablets instead of 2 per gallon), is there anything I need to do now to ensure that I dont have 25litres of vinegar in a few months or should it be OK
Please read link I made about storing, you can add Camden in very small quantities at this stage for preservation probably not necessary if over 6% alcohol
You should not have got vinegar :(. Was the container thoroughly cleaned and sanitised? I have a natural ferment with no campden or yeast going fine.
Like fermented beer minimise oxidation in transfer, have no headspace in your container!
Please do not store long term in plastic (Oxidation :(), Glass or stainless is best, again please look at link.
Thanks CH, will transfer to glass in a few weeks
QuoteThanks CH, will transfer to glass in a few weeks
Please remind me in May to give you bottles of my 'naked cider' :-?
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj605/joctcl/IMG_1092.jpg)
Into my glass with 3 little soldiers ::), last on the left still very active and will go in next week-end finished out at .998 6.7 ABV, lurverly.
No dicernable difference in taste or colour between naturally fermented (1st Carboy on left) and yeast + campden other than the trub and Krausen was a bugger to shift when cleaning buckets on the natural?
Will post pics as they settle out.
Ok to resurect an old thread for 2013 Apple Juice Buy,
http://vimeo.com/48954331
Will would you like to do the 1,2,3 for our newbie cider producers?
Thanks for bringing this one back Ciderhead it's very useful
Now to kick off with a newbie stupid question - once it's fermented to 1.000 is it ok to use the Coopers PET bottles and just leave them for the 4-6 odd months in them?
Quote from: MisterBurns on September 17, 2013, 02:02:52 PM
Thanks for bringing this one back Ciderhead it's very useful
Now to kick off with a newbie stupid question - once it's fermented to 1.000 is it ok to use the Coopers PET bottles and just leave them for the 4-6 odd months in them?
They have oxygen barrier technology in them so it should be fine. That said I prefer bulk aging with any ferment.
Sent using a complex system of semaphore and ninjas.
Cheers Eoin.
What are the benefits of Bulk aging vs bottling?
I'm one of the virgins this year. I've read all the posts and here's what I've come up with. If I've missed anything please let me know. TIA :)
1. Check gravity. It should be in the 1.040 - 1.050 region. It will probably ferment out to 1.000 so add some castor sugar to bump it up if you want.
2. Add 2 crushed campden tablets per gallon (that's 10 campden tablets for 5 gallons). Leave for 48 hrs. This will kill off any natural yeast in the juice.
3. Add nutrient and pinch of pectolayse. (I'm not sure this step is necessary? How much nutrient?)
4. Add 2 teaspoons of pectic enzyme. Leave at 20°C for 12 hrs. (This step is only required if you want really clear cider, it will take some flavour from the juice.)
5. Add yeast. Youngs cider yeast (same as champagne yeast) is recommended.
6. Ferment for 3 to 4 weeks @ 15 - 18°C.
7. Transfer to secondary. Preferably use glass or stainless vessel with no head space to prevent oxidation.
8. Bottle/keg after a few months.
Eoin is correct if you can't age in glass or stainless
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
Quote from: MisterBurns on September 17, 2013, 03:10:33 PM
Cheers Eoin.
What are the benefits of Bulk aging vs bottling?
I bulk age for consistency, then bottle.
Sent using a complex system of semaphore and ninjas.
Garry is pectolase and pectic enzyme not the same thing ? ???
Nice summary Garry, it will finish out at 0.995 so unless you want rocket fuel easy on the Siucra
I think mine came in far side 6% last year megga dry, trying to get rounder juice this year and will know at the week-end
Just to repeat myself if you want to mess about do it on a small scale not with your entire batch
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
Quote from: Greg2013 on September 17, 2013, 07:32:11 PM
Garry is pectolase and pectic enzyme not the same thing ? ???
I have no idea! I just did a summary of this thread and a few others. I want to know what I'm at before the juice arrives and make sure I have all the ingredients.
What would be the risks/advantages of just letting it ferment naturally with whatever natural yeast us already in there ?
It's the same thing and is used to clarify your cider pre fermentation. It's pretty effective.
If you leave cider juice to do its own thing it's a gamble and you risk getting 5 gallons of cider vinegar, I did one last year but it ended out very tannic and subsequently found out it needed some more campden.
Mr D had to wave his magic wand over it in the end.
In short as new producers don't do it with your entire batch for fear that you may be disappointed
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
Quote from: Greg2013 on September 17, 2013, 08:51:55 PM
What would be the risks/advantages of just letting it ferment naturally with whatever natural yeast us already in there ?
Risks; you could end up with 5 gallons of vinegar!
Advantages; you could end up with the greatest cider you've ever tasted!
Blue pill our red pill Neo?
Interesting observations. I don't know anything about making cider so would not take my word on this. Two colleagues at work attended a cider making course (run by David Llewellyn) early this year and were given 5 litres of cider as part of the course price. The cider was contained within 5 litre water bottles and they were advised to just loosen the cap every week or so to vent the Co2 built up inside the container from the fermentation.
No additional yeast was added in to the fermenter and the cider produced was very dry (not my preference) but it was perfectly drinkable.
While I understand leaving it in the container is a risk per the previous comments. Would there be a problem with leaving the cider in the original delivery container long term?
Shanna
Quote from: Ciderhead on September 17, 2013, 10:29:21 PM
It's the same thing and is used to clarify your cider pre fermentation. It's pretty effective.
If you leave cider juice to do its own thing it's a gamble and you risk getting 5 gallons of cider vinegar, I did one last year but it ended out very tannic and Mr D had to wave his magic wand over it.
In short as new producers don't do it with your entire batch for fear that you may be disappointed
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
Do a gallon on each in a Demi
Will and I are working or a cider yeast bank, but still very early days.
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
Quote from: Garry on September 17, 2013, 10:33:37 PM
Quote from: Greg2013 on September 17, 2013, 08:51:55 PM
What would be the risks/advantages of just letting it ferment naturally with whatever natural yeast us already in there ?
Risks; you could end up with 5 gallons of vinegar!
Advantages; you could end up with the greatest cider you've ever tasted!
Blue pill our red pill Neo? :P
Hmmm if I take any more pills I will be talking to the yeast like CH
Quote from: Shanna on September 17, 2013, 10:36:33 PM
Interesting observations. I don't know anything about making cider so would not take my word on this. Two colleagues at work attended a cider making course (run by David Llewellyn) early this year and were given 5 litres of cider as part of the course price. The cider was contained within 5 litre water bottles and they were advised to just loosen the cap every week or so to vent the Co2 built up inside the container from the fermentation.
No additional yeast was added in to the fermenter and the cider produced was very dry (not my preference) but it was perfectly drinkable.
While I understand leaving it in the container is a risk per the previous comments. Would there be a problem with leaving the cider in the original delivery container long term?
Shanna
Quote from: Ciderhead on September 17, 2013, 10:29:21 PM
It's the same thing and is used to clarify your cider pre fermentation. It's pretty effective.
If you leave cider juice to do its own thing it's a gamble and you risk getting 5 gallons of cider vinegar, I did one last year but it ended out very tannic and Mr D had to wave his magic wand over it.
In short as new producers don't do it with your entire batch for fear that you may be disappointed
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
I've just bitten clean through my lip this is not the way to get new folks to produce cider and frankly disappointed to hear that.
That producer also sells cider vinegar:(
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
Quote from: Ciderhead on September 17, 2013, 11:00:48 PM
Quote from: Shanna on September 17, 2013, 10:36:33 PM
Interesting observations. I don't know anything about making cider so would not take my word on this. Two colleagues at work attended a cider making course (run by David Llewellyn) early this year and were given 5 litres of cider as part of the course price. The cider was contained within 5 litre water bottles and they were advised to just loosen the cap every week or so to vent the Co2 built up inside the container from the fermentation.
No additional yeast was added in to the fermenter and the cider produced was very dry (not my preference) but it was perfectly drinkable.
While I understand leaving it in the container is a risk per the previous comments. Would there be a problem with leaving the cider in the original delivery container long term?
Shanna
Quote from: Ciderhead on September 17, 2013, 10:29:21 PM
It's the same thing and is used to clarify your cider pre fermentation. It's pretty effective.
If you leave cider juice to do its own thing it's a gamble and you risk getting 5 gallons of cider vinegar, I did one last year but it ended out very tannic and Mr D had to wave his magic wand over it.
In short as new producers don't do it with your entire batch for fear that you may be disappointed
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
I've just bitten clean through my lip this is not the way to get new folks to produce cider and frankly disappointed to hear that.
That producer also sells cider vinegar:(
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
Like I said, I know nowt about making of cider but I was surprised by the use of a container in this fashion. Would leaving the juice long term in the containers that they will be delivered in be a problem.
Shanna
Ferment in plastic short term age in glass stainless long term
Sent from my divining rod v2.0
@Shanna, I fermented last years batch in a normal fermentor and then trsndferred it back into the original delivery container, against the better advice I was getting on here. I just did it because I didnt have anything else to age it in. Its been sitting in that container ever since. I took a sample out recently to try and its very dry but I cant detect any oxidisation or problem with it. I have sorbitol tobacksweeten and bottle it when I get round to it.
I also did that David LLewelyn cider making course last year. I got a 5litre bottle of apple juice which fermented out and subsequently turned mouldy. He was recommending allowing it to ferment naturally. The lack of sanitation was shocking. He was also showing the crowd how to take a sample to test by sucking it up with a drinking straw. I didnt find the course much good. It was aimed at someone who would have no knowledge of beer/wine/cider making.
I'm not going to openly criticise someone on a public forum so nuf said.
Quote from: Garry on September 17, 2013, 03:28:00 PM
I'm one of the virgins this year. I've read all the posts and here's what I've come up with. If I've missed anything please let me know. TIA :)
1. Check gravity. It should be in the 1.040 - 1.050 region. It will probably ferment out to 1.000 so add some castor sugar to bump it up if you want.
2. Add 2 crushed campden tablets per gallon (that's 10 campden tablets for 5 gallons). Leave for 48 hrs. This will kill off any natural yeast in the juice.
3. Add nutrient and pinch of pectolayse. (I'm not sure this step is necessary? How much nutrient?)
4. Add 2 teaspoons of pectic enzyme. Leave at 20°C for 12 hrs. (This step is only required if you want really clear cider, it will take some flavour from the juice.)
5. Add yeast. Youngs cider yeast (same as champagne yeast) is recommended.
6. Ferment for 3 to 4 weeks @ 15 - 18°C.
7. Transfer to secondary. Preferably use glass or stainless vessel with no head space to prevent oxidation.
8. Bottle/keg after a few months.
9. Back sweeten?
I'm just trying to gauge how much lactose/splenda to buy to back sweeten the entire batch to somewhere between Stonewell medium dry and kopparberg.
When Will has finished crushing his pips this week we are going to document, idiots guide to brewing cider, bare bones of it are above in any case.
Glad to see HBS have cider yeast back in again, big run on it this year because of the fantastic apple crop in Grannys garden although it will be hard work as there has been little water to swell them to full potential
Buy a bottle and a 50Ml syringe from the chemist (or lab next door in your case just make sure they hadn't used it to inject rats beforehand) and add to taste in 500Ml, then scale up, simples. Its great fun and you get pissed in the process, I always have a second opinion close by just to be sure.
Cool thanks! Will do that!