Following on from testing peoples water in TOG this is the water profile i use. its a best guess but alot more accurate then the beersmith default.
I could only test the PH and bicarbonate (CaCO3) the rest of the numbers i took from a water profile i saw on beoir or boards that matched my readings
This is for the vartry/ballymore supply so should apply to the south city and parts of dublin 1 + 3
Dublin, Ireland
Calcium: 20.00 ppm
Sulfate: 35.00 ppm
Magnesium: 1.50 ppm
Chloride: 25.00 ppm
Sodium: 12.00 ppm
Bicarbonate: 32.00 ppm
PH: 6.80
If he is reading this I seem to remember Will_D getting his kit together so he could set up a test lab for brewers. 😤
Ronan, any chance you could bring your testing kit to the DH next time you're in? We could do a little workshop... and drink at the same time...
How much does the profile of the water change over the year? I seem to recall reading somewhere else that city supplies can vary quite a bit from brew to brew.
If it doesn't vary a lot, I've love to get info on the supply in Raheny :)
EDIT: From the council website, it seems to be supplied by VARTRY/BALLYMORE:
http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content//WaterWasteEnvironment/DrinkingWater/Documents/WaterSupplyAreas.pdf
Quote from: beerfly on September 18, 2014, 01:07:06 PM
Following on from testing peoples water in TOG this is the water profile i use. its a best guess but alot more accurate then the beersmith default.
I could only test the PH and bicarbonate (CaCO3) the rest of the numbers i took from a water profile i saw on beoir or boards that matched my readings
This is for the ballymore eustace supply so should apply to the south city, dublin 1 and parts of dublin 3 + 9
Dublin, Ireland
Calcium: 20.00 ppm
Sulfate: 35.00 ppm
Magnesium: 1.50 ppm
Chloride: 25.00 ppm
Sodium: 12.00 ppm
Bicarbonate: 32.00 ppm
PH: 6.80
I believe this is the same for Dublin 7 as it's Ballymore Eustace also.
Quote from: Bubbles on September 18, 2014, 01:44:13 PM
Ronan, any chance you could bring your testing kit to the DH next time you're in? We could do a little workshop... and drink at the same time...
yea i will.
Quote from: molc on September 18, 2014, 02:04:01 PM
How much does the profile of the water change over the year? I seem to recall reading somewhere else that city supplies can vary quite a bit from brew to brew.
If it doesn't vary a lot, I've love to get info on the supply in Raheny :)
EDIT: From the council website, it seems to be supplied by VARTRY/BALLYMORE:
http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content//WaterWasteEnvironment/DrinkingWater/Documents/WaterSupplyAreas.pdf
could not remember where i saw that map need to save it.
Im on the vartry/ballymore supply (updated first post) and it does not change.
Quote from: ferg on September 18, 2014, 02:20:35 PM
I believe this is the same for Dublin 7 as it's Ballymore Eustace also.
ballymore and vartry/ballymore seem almost identical
Cheers man.
Thank you. That is probably one of the most informative posts I've had on here :D
Of course, all it means is now I'm going to start looking at water treatment. I'm guessing bar when doing an IPA, it won't really matter too much for extract...
does anyone have a definitive answer weather or not the supply changes. if not you can get a water check for 28 euro from here: http://www.murphyhomebrew.com/laboratory-services/water-analysis/prod_104.html
maybe if we all pitched in it could be worth our while but if the water varys its pointless, right now im buying water from tesco which is a pain and im not even sure if the label is accurate which is frustrating
guess ill stick with the tesco water so ha
cheers
Was there any further work or tests done on this by members? There's various feedback on tests as well, someone saying that the Murphy version in the UK doesn't give enough detail.
Or would you be better skipping this and just using a ph buffer solution?
Nearly everything I've read on HBT etc seems to say ph5.2 is a load of rubbish i can never work out why.
Quote from: armedcor on April 19, 2015, 12:05:30 AM
Nearly everything I've read on HBT etc seems to say ph5.2 is a load of rubbish i can never work out why.
Could you just get a ph tester and test the mash?
Hi Beerfly,
Thanks for posting this report. I'm quite new to homebrewing (about a dozen extract batches under my belt) but I have been reading up on water profiles and was very curious as to what my own water profile was like. I live in D6 so this information is extremely helpful.
Would I be right in saying that the Calcium and Sulfate levels are a bit on the low side?
I've found that I'm not getting the hop flavour I was expecting from my brews, even when I use large late hop additions, and I've read that my water profile could be the reason for this. Would using Calcium chloride and Gypsum help balance out the water profile?
Or is it just easier to use bottled water, Tesco do 5 litre bottles for 1.29; this seems like an inexpensive solution.... Or does it even make that much of a difference?
Quote from: Conor84 on April 19, 2015, 11:51:12 PM
Tesco do 5 litre bottles for 1.29; this seems like an inexpensive solution.... Or does it even make that much of a difference?
Ouch, that adds an extra E6.80 to the brew on top of everything else though.
Is there any appetite/point to grouping up for an analysis? I'm on the Leixlip supply myself.
have not got around to reading the water book yet and dont really play around with the water much. sulfates can increase hop chrispness, you can use gypsum or epson salts for that, you only need to add 3-5g.
if using bottled water it should have most of the componets on the bottle, it can vary alot between brands
I managed to get a water report from the Dublin lab last summer. If I can find it I'll post it here, I'm sure the values are still the same.
I've gotten onto Irish Water about getting my local profile (Raheny). I'm in the dark blue section on the linked map (http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content//WaterWasteEnvironment/DrinkingWater/Documents/WaterSupplyAreas.pdf) and down as BME / Varty / LXE / BME. I'll see how that goes.
In the meantime without knowing my water profile is there any sense in trying to add Gypsum to my water for better IPAs? Sulfate is really low for the profile Ronan posted above. Anyone had improved hop presence adding a spoonful?
Quote from: Simon \_/ on June 04, 2015, 10:12:59 AM
I've gotten onto Irish Water about getting my local profile (Raheny). I'm in the dark blue section on the linked map and down as BME / Varty / LXE / BME. I'll see how that goes.
No Linky!
Let me know how that goes Simon. I'm in Belmont Park so would imagine that the water profile is similar.
What are the companies that do the testing. I'd love to get a proper breakdown of my water. Without if its a lucky guess or RO to get what I need.
http://laboratory.murphyandson.co.uk/our-products/water/
Their agent here HBC may offer the service ;)
Problem is the profiles can vary a lot depending or what is being fed to treatment works even though the treatment is the same so periods of heavy rainfall v's September which is the lowest point for reserves can be quite different.
Quote from: Will_D on June 04, 2015, 10:40:18 AM
No Linky!
http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content//WaterWasteEnvironment/DrinkingWater/Documents/WaterSupplyAreas.pdf
Quote from: brian_c on June 04, 2015, 10:46:09 AM
Let me know how that goes Simon. I'm in Belmont Park so would imagine that the water profile is similar.
Will do. I'm on the next street. Grange Park Road.
Also interested as I'm the other side of the tracks :)
The info Ronan's posted is really interesting. There's a massive difference between it and the usual profile given for Dublin in all the American sources (including Beersmith). Most significantly, I'd always been led to believe that Dublin water has about 200 ppm bicarbonate and thus is good for dark beers (you'd think, right?).... but it's more like 32! The low calcium is also noteworthy - 20 instead of Beersmith's 115. I'll definitely be adding gypsum or CaCl2 in future.
I think the seasonal variation, and the variation between water supply areas, is worth thinking about, but if you were already fiddling with water chemistry on the basis of information from homebrewer sources... then there's no reason not to take Ronan's data as a better starting point.
Quote from: beerfly on September 18, 2014, 03:35:43 PM
ballymore and vartry/ballymore seem almost identical
I'm inclined to believe you (especially as it makes my life simpler:), but where does this info come from? Were samples from both areas tested? Curious.
An interesting anecdote is a few years ago a city centre company bought in water dispensers into their offices, within a short while all their kettles failed and had to be replaced due to build up on the elements. They now have signs in the kitchens advising not to use bottled water for tea/coffee. Mineral water by definition has been pulled up from a well and will contain minerals and will be hard water, water taken from a lake/reservoir eg Vartry will have much less minerals and will be soft as it is basically collected rain water. I haven't checked but the Tesco bottled water could and may be harder than any of our municipal supplies including Leixlip?
The water coming from Ballymore Eustace is definitely quite soft. I think the water coming from Leixlip is hard. Comparing these two there is obviously a huge amount of difference between different sources so this needs to be taken into account when considering your profile. The water profile on Beersmith must be based on Leixlip as I believe this was the water that was used to brew Guinness initially.
Quote from: Simon. on June 04, 2015, 10:12:59 AM
I've gotten onto Irish Water about getting my local profile (Raheny). I'm in the dark blue section on the linked map (http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content//WaterWasteEnvironment/DrinkingWater/Documents/WaterSupplyAreas.pdf) and down as BME / Varty / LXE / BME. I'll see how that goes.
In the meantime without knowing my water profile is there any sense in trying to add Gypsum to my water for better IPAs? Sulfate is really low for the profile Ronan posted above. Anyone had improved hop presence adding a spoonful?
Any joy getting that report? Getting tempted to start looking into water this winter in my brewing :)
Just did a test there on my D1 (Russell Street) water with the PalinTest kits and got something not far off Ronan's results:
SO4 - 40
Cl - 20
CaCO2 - 20