National Homebrew Club Ireland

we never decided anything about the barrel




[Topic split-off from September meetup - Garry 19/09/2014]

It was so loud there it was difficult to have any sort of conversation with anyone more than a foot or so away, I'd say we all probably had separate discussions on it, may as well try to thrash it out here.
I'm in favour of adding some Brett to the barrel, not anything too super sour, but something that would add something different,  so we could brew some styles like an old ale/porter/IPA and then see what a few months in the barrel would do to the flavour.
I know you had a good idea as well Eoin, about blending a few different brews from everyone together - you'd probably explain it better.  I'd be happy to go along with that one if the majority don't want to 'infect' the barrel, because once we do that there'll be no going back.
There was probably  more ideas as well, but my memory is a bit fuzzy about later on!

I'm very keen for us to take the October ale out of it, but not sure I currently have the bandwidth to commit to brewing something to refill it. Can we take out the current contents and rinse it with a campden solution until it gets filled again?

First of all, I don't think what's in the barrel will get any better and we might aswell set a date and empty it.

For a refill, the following were discussed on Friday (got bless my clear head):
- Set just a rough style guideline and all the different beers get blended together to secondary in the barrel
- Set just a rough style guideline and all the different worts get blended together to brew in the barrel
- Brett it up.
- Lager in it. Winter is coming!
We'll also need to decide where the barrel will be housed for the next batch.

Finally, it is Taf's barrel, so before committing to anything we should be sure that there are no plans already lined up for it.

At the end of the day, the wood and whiskey is gone from the barrel, so it really doesn't matter what goes into it.
We could easily dump a load of charred oak and whiskey into it if we wanted.
It's more the community aspect of everyone getting together to make something happen.

Personally, I like the idea of setting some lager guidelines and using the barrel to lager the blend over the winter.
Then we could plan something warmer for next spring/summer.

I totally agree re getting the October beer out soon, as not going to get any better, plus I want to give it a good dry hopping before I bottle it.

Like I said, not sure that I can commit re the refill at this point, but happy enough for others to use it. I do want the barrel back at some point though, when it has no more useful brewing purpose, but probably a bit of life in it yet.

As Taf, my bandwidth is restricted.
I'm running on 9600baud...

I'll row in with whatever is proposed as best I can.

I like the lager idea a lot, something big like a Baltic Porter would be great.
If there's a few of us stuck for brewing time though, how about we get in on that Apple Juice group buy and do something cider related?  Maybe an Apfelwein?

eww

Like the idea of apfelwein as drank a lot of it, on recent trip to frankfurt. Isn't it just cider though? The quantities on that group buy look a bit unwieldy as is, but wouldn't completely write it off.

Nothing with apples please.

Toasting your Barrel (for Will_D)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPj7zrysLps

Sulphur...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF5U1rK4VXs

Emptying the barrel: I'm up to my tits listening to bridezilla shit. And work is gone crazy over the last few weeks too. The next weekend I've got free is October 4th. John has a brew already planned that day. Balls. Unless we do it on the 3rd? The rest of October is booked up for me. November should hopefully be back to normal but I don't think Taf can wait that long  :P

Refilling: I won't be free to brew until November I'd say. I liked the idea of a lager because it would be in the barrel over the winter. That was until I heard Mr h talking about the size of a starter that would be required!

The Apple wine (non sprechen deutsch) would be an easy option to fill the barrel quickly but...... I don't want any more cider. I'll go along with it if there's interest though.

Baltic porter sounds interesting, I must research it a bit more.

I'm happy to leave the barrel in my garage. There's plenty of room. Unless someone else wants to host it?

Guess that's a no for the cider/apple wine then! A lager, especially a Baltic Porter, will need a massive starter, but came across some good advice recently that instead of making a big starter you should just   do a low gravity batch like a Helles or something first and use the yeast from that. If you used extract or something like that Craft Range that LordEoin posted about recently it would be fairly easy.
However that means two batches and there's restrictions on time over the next while. Would dry hopping the October Ale in the barrel be an option?  Pretty sure that's an Old style technique and would  buy a bit of time until everyone is ready.

I don't think dryhopping in the barrel would be an option. The hole is small and if we started shoving hops in loose we'd never get them out.
Everyone's going to be taking away 19-20 liters so it would be easiest for everyone to dryhop individually in the container they use or in a cornie.
It would also give everyone the freedom to dryhop with whatever quantities of whichever hop they like (or not dryhop at all).
That would also make later tastings more interesting, seeing what different people did to wreck enhance their share.

What size starter are we talking for the lager? And would it be easier for everyone complete primary before barrel blending.
It would easier to coordinate filling with fairly stable fermented raw beer than to try and get all of the batches of fresh wort in before it spoils.
Primary in the barrel also means that it'll be sitting on a lot of trub for a very long time as we'd not be able to rack it off.

Hops will shag up the barrel. Don't.

Lager for me. No need for starter. I have about 300g dry lager yeast.

Quote from: johnrm on September 17, 2014, 07:36:24 AM
Hops will shag up the barrel. Don't.

Lager for me. No need for starter. I have about 300g dry lager yeast.

Wow! Which one?

Actually, 200g of mauribrew, it's the stuff that fecker in Kildare keeps wupping ass with!

How's about a 6% Czech dark lager? And those who don't like lager can transform it into a Czech Black IPA by dry hopping the shite out of it when they get it in the keg - apparently those crazy Czech make their IPAs with lager yeast.

Reason for going dark is a pale lager won't improve after 6 months of barrel aging

The yanks are calling those IPL's now. What kind of hops and grains would you be looking at?

What about emptying? Is the 3rd/4th Oct too soon?

Saaz, saaz, saaz and more saaz. :) Well for the boil anyway.

Would definitely be up for a dark Czech lager, great idea.

Sounds good. 20g dry yeast should do, times 10 is 200g.
Primary ferment at home, secondary in the Barrel?
Something here to consider...
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f60/black-lager-167758/

sounds good to me. looks tasty.
saturday 4th would be best for me for emptying anyway

Quote from: johnrm on September 17, 2014, 11:04:04 PM
Actually, 200g of mauribrew, it's the stuff that fecker in Kildare keeps wupping ass with!

Ha.. I won 10 pks of mauribrew lager at uk nationals as well. Great yeast. Our gold medal weiss was mauribrew weiss yeast. Great under rated yeast brand. Go for it

6 medals in nationals.. 4 lager and 2 ales.... 1 yeast mauribrew lager

Jaysus, I've started him now...

What temp profiles did you use for your lagers with the mauribrew bren, and how much of it did you pitch?

We should split this thread. Mods?

Thread splitteded  ;)

If it's a 6% beer, I assume we don't need a ginormous starter or a small batch first?

What grains should we stocking up on?

Will we all work from the same recipe or will we just call it a general style and do a blend in the barrel?

Well if it's a lager we need a lot of yeast, but if the barrel is about 200 litres 200g of dry would be getting close i'd imagine. Maybe someone familiar with mauribrew could give us some pointers.

Either way I'm actually going to be doing a few small batches of lager with Wyeast 2001 (Pilsner Urquell) yeast over the next while.

I've just got 500g of saaz yesterday so that would probably be useful as well.

From memory grains would be something like pilsner 60%, munich 30%, caramunich 7%, carafa 3 dehusked 3%.

I'd be most concerned about temp control, both before and after it goes into the barrel. I do seem to recall hearing that mauribrew lager is fine at higher temps but again maybe someone familiar with mauribrew could give us some pointers. ;D

Our "Indian summer" appears to be coming to an end so I'd expect the garage to stay below 15°C until next April/May.

The Mauribrew (http://www.maurivin.com/upload/MAURIBREW%20LAGER%20TDS.pdf) yeast can also be used at higher temps to produce a Californian Ale so it sounds hardy enough. It is Australian after all!

I haven't used pilsner malt before, does it need a step mash?

Is all Carafa III "dehusked"?

I have a couple of spare sacks of MCI lager malt, or do we think it has to be pilsner malt?

Theres loads of Lager and less Pilsner floating about.
I have 25kg Munich which I will happily divvy up.

Given that a certain unnamed somebody recently one a competition with a kolsch brewed with MCI lager malt I'd say give it a lash. With all those speciality malts it should be ok.

BTW does MCI lager malt require a 90 minute boil like pilsner malt?

I'll try and stick a recipe up later. There's a one in Stan Hieronymus's For the Love of Hops which looks very similar to the U Fleku one with which I got my best competition score to date. Might pull out the score sheet as well while I'm at it and see if there's any pointers there.

This is the recipe for the Kout na Sumave14^o Tmave Lezak Specialni. Not saying we have to follow exactly (except for the mash). Just throwing it out there.

77% Pilsner malt
10% Munich 2 (16 EBC)
10% Caramunich 2
3% Carafa 3

Extremely soft water and double decoction mash.

IBU 34
OG 1057
FG 1020

Hops Saaz, by weight add 1/3 hops at 90, 1/3 at 60 and 1/3 at 30.
Yeast: Budvar
Pitch at 8C, rise to 10-11 and lager at 2 for 42 - 72 days.

This is the Ratebeer for it and the 18^o (1074 OG!)
http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/koutsky-14o-tmavy-special/69365/

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/koutsky-18o-tmavy-vano269ni-special/69369/

and the eBook (worth a read)
http://www.amazon.com/Brewery-Bohemian-Forest-Evan-Rail-ebook/dp/B00KRPY4GE/ref=la_B001MOTJ1E_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411161620&sr=1-5

Double decoction . Can you do it on a stovetop?

or an insulated mashtun?

Quote from: LordEoin on September 20, 2014, 11:31:40 AM
or an insulated mashtun?

Was thinking of when doing the actual decoctions

Ok, you don't really need to decoct this at all, although it is pretty cool. :P

Single infusion at 67 should pretty much do the trick. Maybe no harm in boiling some of the first runnings on the stove for added caramelization.

This thread has gone quiet. Are we emptying on Saturday? I'm around for the day anyway. I will probably do a brew for myself because I officially have a day off! I can just empty the barrel to fúck if you lads get your cornies or bottling buckets to me?

It would probably suit me better to do it during the day because herself is hosting a kitchen party that night or something!

Kitchen party! sounds like ... fun?
I'm still up for emptying anyway

What time were ye thinking of?

8am to 6pm ish? Let's call it an open house for the day :)

will you have a fry-up ready at 8:10 ?
just kidding, I wouldn't get up that early unless the bed was on fire.

I'll have to be there early as I have 2 gigs on.

No fry-up but I'll find something  :P

@john, I can start earlier? 7am?

You can drop out your receptacle during the week if it suits you better?

receptacle, lol

Wannabe architect.
Instead of '2 of dem yokes' he says '2 no. of dem yokes'.  O0

Haven't been getting notifications on this thread for some reason, so didn't reply sooner. I can't make it this weekend, but can give a receptacle to Eoin.

no bother with me

I'll be over Saturday morning with my receptacle.  Ill bring something to carry the beer in as well.

Good man Doc. Do you still have that source for metabisulphite? I've got enough of citric acid.

Balls - I just changed jobs, can't rob metabisulphite any more and never  thought to bring any with me.

That's grand. I need to put in an order with hbc anyway.

I've soime. Can check how much.

Loads of campden tablets, 30+.

I've citric acid as well.

When do you need them - after emptying the barrel I'd be guessing?

Cheers Mr h, I think I'm covered. I ordered some this evening. I'll fill the barrel with water and citric acid/metabisuphite after we empty it to keep it wet.

Hi Garry is it ok if I drop up early on Saturday afternoon?

That's grand. Eoin is coming at 11.00. I'll be setting up at about 9.00.

We emptied the barrel yesterday. Final gravity was 1004  ??? It doesn't taste funky though.

We refilled the barrel with water, metabisulphate and citric acid. That shit smells toxic.

Dara, your keg is in my garage. I forgot to put it in Eoins car. I doubt it would fit anyway, Andrew was riding shotgun with a keg between his legs and a full fermenter on his lap  ;D

Donnchadh, I have a fermenter with your beer in the garage. I purged it with CO2 so there's no panic.

Thanks Gary, will try and get up to you next weekend, just under pressure with a job. Anybody thinking of oaking in secondary?

Mine's bottled and all, didn't do anything more to it. I'm hoping that some champagne yeast will get it to carb up but otherwise I didn't see a need for any changes to the beer :)

I'm going to just bottle mine as is too. I might hold back 3 or 4 litters and add some crushed chicken to a demijohn ala cóck ale. I've seen it on YouTube, looks disgusting but it's supposed to be a good beer ?

Thanks for sorting out the emptying,  and drop off to me.  I will be dry hopping mine for sure.

Garry, you're mad.
Choking your chicken and what?!
I pulled in down the road after leaving and shoved on an airlock, the lid was swollen and I didn't want to risk it blowing and spilling all over the car

yeah, there seemed to be a lot of co2 still in the beer, so there might be hope of the yeasties being revived a bit for carbonation (maybe)

I tempted fate out of curiosity and opened a bottle.
the fliptop popped, which is a good sign, but not a bubble to be seen yet
man it's tasty... Our combination of fukc-ups made a fantastic beer!
Lets just hope it carbs up with time.

Force carb or beer gun if you can.

mine's carbing up nicely in the bottle.
tiny bubbles and thin head, but it suits it well.
I used about a gram of champagne yeast

Things have gone all quiet on this thread - any plans on filling the barrel this side of Christmas?  Trying to decide what to brew next, I'm keen to brew that black lager because I really like the look of the receipe but could hold off for a while and do something else if we are definitely going to be doing this sometime over the next few months.
The temperatures at the moment are still a bit too high to get any proper lagering in the barrel anyway  - I'm trying to lager some batches in my attic at the moment but not getting below 10deg.

It's gone quiet alright. So I doubt anything's going into the barrel this side of Christmas?

I have the ingredients for this brew and was thinking of brewing it myself anyway.

What ye think of filling the barrel around the 2nd or 3rd week of January?

Build it and they will come

My boiler is out of action.

2nd or 3rd week in Jan would mean brewing over the Christmas holidays which would suit me perfectly, so I'd be up for that. 

Quote from: johnrm on November 19, 2014, 06:46:02 PM
My boiler is out of action.

Do you want to borrow my hlt? It will do a boil no bother.

Thanks, waiting on a delivery next week, should be good then.

I have 200g lager yeast...

Talk of re-fill continues here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,8354.0.html).

(https://imgflip.com/i/emw3d)

Was at home for the weekend for my father's 70th so thought it would be a good occasion to break out the October Ale.  It went down very well, no-one could believe it was 9-10%.  I had three bottles, I think that was maybe two too many!  It's worked out very well, a lovely beer.
I bottle conditioned and added half a pack of champagne yeast to carbonate, never used it before and not sure if I will again.  It's taken two months to clear up and it adds a nasty bitter aftertaste if it's anyway in suspension at all. It re-suspends very easily when pouring (or transporting in the boot of your car).  I can see why the recommendations are to only use 1g of yeast, definitely not something you want too much of in your beer!

I'm drinking it from the keg for the last few weeks, and it's lovely, but very dangerous on tap.

Drinking this now, tasty drop. Who's going to enter it in the nationals on behalf of the club?

I've drunk all of mine. ..

 ;) I kinda thought that alright. 19th century DIPA basically.

I've tapped a keg, its ok, a bit warm on the alcohol though.
What category is it? 19A old ale I imagine

or barley wine?

I think Old Ale (19A) describes it better?

I can bottle a couple form my keg and put them in with my entries?

There is mo barrel competition you know.
Ask over on the comp thread about group brews. This is possibly a no no.

Quote from: johnrm on January 25, 2015, 02:28:52 PM
There is mo barrel competition you know.
Ask over on the comp thread about group brews. This is possibly a no no.

Was wondering this myself there yesterday.. Rossa, what's the official line on this?

I'm going to be entering some that I brewed and didn't go into the barrel.
I messed the hop additions on brewday, so mine's a bit more bitter than the barrel ale. Otherwise there's very little difference, the barrel didn't add much to it at all.
i slightly prefer the barrel version but i think it's because the champagne east i used for carbonation.

Just looking at the rules, we can't enter the group beer.

Quote from: http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/competition/rules
Each entry must be brewed solely by the entrant.

Besides, if Eoin is entering his, the judges will know that the barrel beer is the same. There were only 4 entries in the old ale category last year.

I'll ask about a barrel competition.

balls about the sole brewer thing, but a barrel competition would be a bit of fun anyway with that gigantic barrel trophy  ;D

Quote from: LordEoin on January 25, 2015, 05:07:38 PM
balls about the sole brewer thing, but a barrel competition would be a bit of fun anyway with that gigantic barrel trophy  ;D

We lads in South Dublin (living there mind :)) would love an opportunity to take that huge cup off yer hands. "We was robbed" last year and with home town advantage this year we should be a shoe in ;-)

Shanna

I think it would be a bit of craic, and as you will have a load of judges about, why not?

How many 'new' barrel beers are floating about?

1. Rebels
2. SD
3.
4.
5.

2 is enough for a competition  ;D
if we keep the monster-cup as the one prize for the barrel comp and pass it onto the winners, then the nationals dont even have to get a prize, just organize a couple of impartial judges to decide a winner

Quote from: LordEoin on January 25, 2015, 10:28:07 PM
2 is enough for a competition  ;D
if we keep the monster-cup as the one prize for the barrel comp and pass it onto the winners, then the nationals dont even have to get a prize, just organize a couple of impartial judges to decide a winner

Would never live it down if we came 2nd two years in a row :)Shanna

Paddy Bubbles has a mention in the Comp Thread.

Quote from: Shanna on January 25, 2015, 08:19:29 PM

Quote from: LordEoin on January 25, 2015, 05:07:38 PM
balls about the sole brewer thing, but a barrel competition would be a bit of fun anyway with that gigantic barrel trophy  ;D

We lads in South Dublin (living there mind :)) would love an opportunity to take that huge cup off yer hands. "We was robbed" last year and with home town advantage this year we should be a shoe in ;-)

Shanna

You weren't robbed from what I recall, as the deliberation was between 2nd and 3rd place, not between 1st and 2nd.