Hi there,
Was thinking of doing an American IPA Ale with rye according to the following recipe. Would be interested in hearing criticism/feedback on the recipe. I don't have the cararroma malt and I was wondering if I could replace it with crystal malt of the same ebc e.g. 250?
Thanks,
Shanna
Mash Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.60 kg Pilsner (2 Row) UK (2.0 EBC) Grain 1 63.6 %
0.68 kg Rye Malt (9.3 EBC) Grain 2 9.4 %
0.50 kg Munich Malt - 10L (23.9 EBC) Grain 3 6.9 %
0.45 kg Vienna Malt (6.9 EBC) Grain 4 6.2 %
0.40 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (120.0 EBC) Grain 5 5.5 %
0.35 kg Caraaroma (256.1 EBC) Grain 6 4.8 %
0.25 kg White Wheat Malt (4.7 EBC) Grain 7 3.5 %
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 21.36 l of water at 73.7 C 65.6 C 75 min
Fly sparge with 19.43 l water at 75.6 C
Add water to achieve boil volume of 31.04 l
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.054 SG
Boil Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 8 2.0 IBUs
27.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 80.0 min Hop 9 34.7 IBUs
22.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 26.2 IBUs
20.00 g Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 4.8 IBUs
Estimated Post Boil Vol: 27.04 l and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.065 SG
Dry Hop and Bottle/Keg
Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
27.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
Pitch Yeast and Measure Gravity and Volume
Fermentation Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) [23.66 ml] Yeast 12 -
I'd change the hop additions. Use the magnum for all the bittering and keep the cascade and simcoe for late additions. Colombus mid boil. Simcoe is too good for a 80 min boil. In my oppenion anyway.
Chief, I would...
Ditch the 90 minute boil, and just do a regular 60 mins. Don't see the need for it.
Switch the hops - Use the magnum for bittering at 60 mins and keep the other hops for the late additions. Also increase the amounts of late hops considerably. An IPA should have a big hop punch.
You might consider increasing the rye to 15-20%. 9% might get a little lost and you won't get much of that spicy flavour.
Ditch the S-04, tastes like gick and won't give you the level of attenuation you want in an IPA.
Never used CaraAroma, but looks like a lot of dark crystal in a recipe that already has .4kg of Crystal 80.
Quote from: Bubbles on October 22, 2014, 09:12:38 AM
Chief, I would...
Ditch the 90 minute boil, and just do a regular 60 mins. Don't see the need for it.
Switch the hops - Use the magnum for bittering at 60 mins and keep the other hops for the late additions. Also increase the amounts of late hops considerably. An IPA should have a big hop punch.
You might consider increasing the rye to 15-20%. 9% might get a little lost and you won't get much of that spicy flavour.
Ditch the S-04, tastes like gick and won't give you the level of attenuation you want in an IPA.
Never used CaraAroma, but looks like a lot of dark crystal in a recipe that already has .4kg of Crystal 80.
Sound advice thanks, I took the original bones of it from an internet site originally and was a bit wary of the timing of the hop additions. At 15-20% I have read that this will cause problems with sparging without having rice hulls to add to the mash tun. Have you any experience yourself of using that much rye? I mean to ask what yeast would you recommend using instead? I have a boddingtons clone that is using a windsor ale yeast? Would that work or should I be looking for something like US-05?
Shanna
Yeah, the hop additions look a little wacky alright.
I haven't used that much rye before... I used around 9 or 10% in a saison and got little or no rye flavour from it - so in a dark beer like yours I think the rye would struggle even more to make itself known. The only times I've used rye has been when doing BIAB, so a stuck mash wasn't a worry. Maybe someone else would chime in, if they know.
Do a google for "bear republic hop rod rye clone". I think that uses a good deal of rye malt. Maybe you could find something to put your mind at rest. You'd do a lot worse than follow any of the clone recipes you find - it's a great beer. They sell it in the Cellar, if you want to "try before you buy".
If I was going for an American IPA style, I'd use US-05 or WLP001. No question. The English yeasts can actually strip hop flavour out of your beer, especially the hard floccing strains (like S-04). I haven't used Windsor myself, but I've heard it can be a pain to drop out. Personally speaking, I wouldn't use Windsor in an American IPA. It is also a low attenuator - in IPA styles you want to dry the beer out, to allow the hops to shine.
What OG are you shooting for? If it's a high OG then the English low attenuating strains could leave you with an overly sweet and cloying beer.
Quote from: Bubbles on October 22, 2014, 01:32:46 PM
Yeah, the hop additions look a little wacky alright.
I haven't used that much rye before... I used around 9 or 10% in a saison and got little or no rye flavour from it - so in a dark beer like yours I think the rye would struggle even more to make itself known. The only times I've used rye has been when doing BIAB, so a stuck mash wasn't a worry. Maybe someone else would chime in, if they know.
Do a google for "bear republic hop rod rye clone". I think that uses a good deal of rye malt. Maybe you could find something to put your mind at rest. You'd do a lot worse than follow any of the clone recipes you find - it's a great beer. They sell it in the Cellar, if you want to "try before you buy".
If I was going for an American IPA style, I'd use US-05 or WLP001. No question. The English yeasts can actually strip hop flavour out of your beer, especially the hard floccing strains (like S-04). I haven't used Windsor myself, but I've heard it can be a pain to drop out. Personally speaking, I wouldn't use Windsor in an American IPA. It is also a low attenuator - in IPA styles you want to dry the beer out, to allow the hops to shine.
What OF are you shooting for? If it's a high OG then the English low attenuating strains could leave you with an overly sweet and cloying beer.
Food for thought, was thinking about the Windsor as it was to hand but will use the US-05 instead. Was thinking along the line of OG of 1.065 or there abouts.
Shanna
Yeah, 1.065 and s-04 will end up a pretty sweet beer. I'm a little biased though, I just hate S-04.
Quote from: Bubbles on October 22, 2014, 02:00:43 PM
Yeah, 1.065 and s-04 will end up a pretty sweet beer. I'm a little biased though, I just hate S-04.
Snap, never forgave it for previous brewing disasters :)
Shanna
Reworked this recipe according to the advice given and the clone recipe referenced. Trying to dial down the alcohol" in this one.
Clean and Prepare Brewing Equipment
Total Water Needed: 40.28 l
Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3.76 kg Pilsner (2 Row) UK (2.0 EBC) Grain 1 55.8 %
1.35 kg Rye Malt (9.3 EBC) Grain 2 20.0 %
0.56 kg Munich Malt - 10L (23.9 EBC) Grain 3 8.3 %
0.41 kg Vienna Malt (6.9 EBC) Grain 4 6.1 %
0.35 kg White Wheat Malt (4.7 EBC) Grain 5 5.2 %
0.30 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 6 4.5 %
0.00 kg Black (Patent) Malt (1333.0 EBC) Grain 7 0.1 %
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 20.06 l of water at 73.7 C 65.6 C 75 min
Fly sparge with 20.22 l water at 75.6 C
Add water to achieve boil volume of 31.04 l
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.049 SG
Boil Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
20.00 g Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 24.9 IBUs
30.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 28.7 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 10 -
40.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 10.1 IBUs
30.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
Estimated Post Boil Vol: 27.04 l and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.059 SG
Cool and Transfer Wort
Cool wort to fermentation temperature
Transfer wort to fermenter
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 23.00 l
Pitch Yeast and Measure Gravity and Volume
Measure Actual Original Gravity _______ (Target: 1.059 SG)
Measure Actual Batch Volume _______ (Target: 23.00 l)
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 23.00 l
Fermentation
05 Oct 2014 - Primary Fermentation (4.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
09 Oct 2014 - Secondary Fermentation (10.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
Dry Hop and Bottle/Keg
Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
30.00 g Ahtanum [6.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
Measure Final Gravity: _________ (Estimate: 1.013 SG)
Date Bottled/Kegged: 19 Oct 2014 - Carbonation: Bottle with 135.29 g Corn Sugar
Age beer for 30.00 days at 18.3 C
18 Nov 2014 - Drink and enjoy!
Shanna
Quote from: Dube on October 25, 2014, 07:36:51 PM
A dash of wheat malt is usually added for head retention. You have carapils for that. Also, the vienna will probably not be noticeable (keep it for a lager instead), and 0.00kg of black malt probably won't be noticeable either :)
The blackmalt is actually 50 grams that does not register on the figures from BeerSmith as it only keeps two decimal places.
Shann
Edited to correct blackmalt weight. Reworked this recipe according to the advice given and the clone recipe referenced. Trying to dial down the alcohol" in this one.
Clean and Prepare Brewing Equipment
Total Water Needed: 40.28 l
Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3.76 kg Pilsner (2 Row) UK (2.0 EBC) Grain 1 55.8 %
1.35 kg Rye Malt (9.3 EBC) Grain 2 20.0 %
0.56 kg Munich Malt - 10L (23.9 EBC) Grain 3 8.3 %
0.41 kg Vienna Malt (6.9 EBC) Grain 4 6.1 %
0.35 kg White Wheat Malt (4.7 EBC) Grain 5 5.2 %
0.30 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 6 4.5 %
0.005 kg Black (Patent) Malt (1333.0 EBC) Grain 7 0.1 %
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 20.06 l of water at 73.7 C 65.6 C 75 min
Fly sparge with 20.22 l water at 75.6 C
Add water to achieve boil volume of 31.04 l
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.049 SG
Boil Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
20.00 g Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 24.9 IBUs
30.00 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 28.7 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 10 -
40.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 10.1 IBUs
30.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
Estimated Post Boil Vol: 27.04 l and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.059 SG
Cool and Transfer Wort
Cool wort to fermentation temperature
Transfer wort to fermenter
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 23.00 l
Pitch Yeast and Measure Gravity and Volume
Fermentation Ingredients
2ltr wlp0001 california ale yeast starter
Measure Actual Original Gravity _______ (Target: 1.059 SG)
Measure Actual Batch Volume _______ (Target: 23.00 l)
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 23.00 l
Fermentation
05 Oct 2014 - Primary Fermentation (4.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
09 Oct 2014 - Secondary Fermentation (10.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
Dry Hop and Bottle/Keg
Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
30.00 g Ahtanum [6.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
Measure Final Gravity: _________ (Estimate: 1.013 SG)
Date Bottled/Kegged: 19 Oct 2014 - Carbonation: Bottle with 135.29 g Corn Sugar
Age beer for 30.00 days at 18.3 C
18 Nov 2014 - Drink and enjoy!
Shanna
Dec, you can configure the number of decimal places in BeerSmith. I definitely have have at least three decimal places in my config.
What yeast did you plump for in the end?
Quote from: Bubbles on October 25, 2014, 10:11:57 PM
Dec, you can configure the number of decimal places in BeerSmith. I definitely have have at least three decimal places in my config.
What yeast did you plump for in the end?
2ltr wlp0001 california ale yeast starter
Quote from: Bubbles on October 25, 2014, 10:11:57 PM
Dec, you can configure the number of decimal places in BeerSmith. I definitely have have at least three decimal places in my config.
What yeast did you plump for in the end?
2ltr wlp0001 california ale yeast starter
Cheers for the tip about the configuration in Beer Smith.
Shanna
Loads of firsts with this recipe, stuck sparge, burnt on element causing it to trip out rather than blow the fuse. Lesson learned about using rye & also the gap in my mill. 20% rye was just too much for my humble equipment to take. Everything took an age to get sorted out & spilt wort everywhere. Only thing that worked was the inline use of the beer chiller to cool the incoming water for the copper chiller.
Shanna
Ouch! What's the story with your elements? You seem to have a lot of trouble with them. Would you consider replacing them? Although, if you're getting a lot of scorching it might point to poor mash conversion.
What about trying to get your wort into the kettle in the clearest form possible via recirculation the through the grain bed for longer. Should keep the crud off the elements.
Not fun. I've gotten into the habbit of always cleaning both of my elements right before first draining of the mash. It's a real pain when an elements kicks off and even worse when the second goes. It has happened to me.
It's just part of my beew day steps now. I find I get a lot of caramilized gunk stuck to the elements. A covering with lighter beers and can scrape if off when brewing big beers.
Valueable allround had allready started to recirculate for longer before draining. I also pass the wort through a bazooka screen before it goes in the kettle. Could not do any of this last night as I ended up using a saucepan & sieve, it was carnage. Real problem is my mill gap & the huge amount of flour in the grits from the rye. I thought I was baking bread. The elements are a symptom not a problem per se. Just too much solid material. Once I change the mill gap & don't use rye :-) & if I still have problems will consider changing the elements.
Shanna
Have you considered that the bazooka screen might be the problem? If it's the same type of bazooka screen that is sold by the homebrew shops (and which I have in my boiler) I can't imagine the coarse mesh is the best material for lautering grain. Though I know some people use them and have no problems..
Is it a roller mill you have?
Quote from: Bubbles on October 27, 2014, 04:29:56 PM
Have you considered that the bazooka screen might be the problem? If it's the same type of bazooka screen that is sold by the homebrew shops (and which I have in my boiler) I can't imagine the coarse mesh is the best material for lautering grain. Though I know some people use them and have no problems..
Is it a roller mill you have?
Sorry was not clear. I have a candle tray in my mashtun as a false bottom. On top.of that I have a wire mesh that acts like a sieve. I attach the bakooza screen on to the end of the tube that exits my solar pump before it enters the boiler. That is in effect three levels of screen. Normally it works well but last night all.normal.process went out the window. Don't hold out much hope for this beer but who knows it could be just another chapter in my crazy brewing record :)
Shanna