National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Equipment & Chemicals => Topic started by: Qs on November 15, 2014, 12:39:50 PM

Title: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Qs on November 15, 2014, 12:39:50 PM
I usually brew out in the garden but lately the bad weather has stopped me getting anything done. With no end in sight to the rain I'm having to make arrangements to brew indoors. I use a butane and a the typical black square gas burner (http://www.gasproducts.ie/acatalog/Large_Square_Gas_Boiling_Ring.html) from Hamilton.

Will I be ok to use that inside the house? Do I need extra ventilation or will being beside the door and having the windows open be enough. Its a decent sized room.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Jacob on November 15, 2014, 01:31:17 PM
If you'll provide good ventilation can't see why you couldn't brew indoors. Brewing in the kitchen myself :P
No extra equipment, just cooker hood & opened windows.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: auralabuse on November 15, 2014, 02:42:18 PM
One bit of extra safety would be a carbon monoxide alarm.  Have it in the room your brewing in,  you will be 100%then
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Qs on November 15, 2014, 03:49:32 PM
Actually have a spare carbon monoxide alarm. Perfect.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Will_D on November 15, 2014, 06:43:13 PM
The biggest danger of using these indoors is that they don't have a "flame failure device" so keep an eye on it!. If the flame blows out the gas fills the room and then you walk in and say switch the light on (Spark) then KaBoom!

I know its unlikely but there you go.

Re. Carbon Monoxide:

Its always a good idea to have a detector in the house where you have gas/oil/solid fuel boilers/water heaters.

However it is only produced when there is insufficient oxygen present so combustion is incomplete.

This can only happen in an enclosed system like a gas boiler or an oil boiler. An open gas flame (like our boiling rings) has infinite oxygen available!
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on November 15, 2014, 07:47:33 PM
If you have made off the gas connections yourself, apply some soapy water around the joints to check for bubbles = gas leak. Apart from that you won't be too popular filling the house with the smell of boiling hops  ;D
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Beerbuddha on November 16, 2014, 08:34:19 AM
I use gas when decocting.

My brewshed is a portacabin and i have no major isues.

Just open window slightly and good to go.

I have left the door open but any slight breeze and the hamilton gas burner blows out and this might cause an issue as the gas can fill the room with usual explosive problem but if your close to your post  all shall be ok.

Monoxide not necessary i feel but if you have one free use it.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Qs on November 16, 2014, 02:39:50 PM
This is going grand except for suffering my second ever boil over, typical it happened inside.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Jacob on November 16, 2014, 02:51:52 PM
Try anti-foam (https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/antifoam-vinoferm-100-ml-p-1597.html) next time.
Works for me.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: delzep on November 16, 2014, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 16, 2014, 02:51:52 PM
Try anti-foam (https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/antifoam-vinoferm-100-ml-p-1597.html) next time.
Works for me.

Stops boilovers?

How much would you use per batch?
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Jacob on November 16, 2014, 03:32:19 PM
Quote from: delzep on November 16, 2014, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 16, 2014, 02:51:52 PM
Try anti-foam (https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/antifoam-vinoferm-100-ml-p-1597.html) next time.
Works for me.

Stops boilovers?

How much would you use per batch?
1/2 tsp for 40l batch if I remember that right.
No probs with boilovers.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on November 16, 2014, 03:38:15 PM
Either that or add your first hops as you're bringing the wort to the boil, the beta acids will make it less volatile
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Qs on November 16, 2014, 07:01:21 PM
Thats interesting SA, I usually FWH and I don't have boilovers but today I did not. I also usually skim the stuff on top which I didn't do in time today.

Definitely going to get some anti-foam. Does anyone know if the Mottly Brew has it, want to call in there before I brew again anyway to get some grain.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on November 16, 2014, 10:51:35 PM
Anti foam was more used to reduce foam/ krausening in fermenters and reduce the necessity for head space meaning you could fit more wort in the fermenter and so improve brewing efficiency. Commercially those breweries who move towards post fermentation bittering and thus use less hops in kettle use Beta Acids to reduce boil overs. The beta acid used to be a waste product of hop processing but has now become a valuable process aid
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: raindogxx on November 17, 2014, 08:09:37 AM
I read somewhere that antifoam can impact head retention in your finished beer. Has anyone had that experience?
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Jacob on November 17, 2014, 09:28:12 AM
Quote from: raindogxx on November 17, 2014, 08:09:37 AM
I read somewhere that antifoam can impact head retention in your finished beer. Has anyone had that experience?
Never had any problems because of that.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on November 17, 2014, 09:37:46 AM
I've got to be honest I'm surprised that anyone would need to use anti foam in a home brewing set up, its use is predominantly restricted to Britain, where some of their flocculant ale yeasts can produce excessive fobbing in fermenter, it use is generally frowned upon in the rest of the brewing world, as it is an unnatural additive (Silicone) and you'd have to travel far to find someone admitting to using it in their product. The breweries I worked in use sterile water jetting to break down fob and as stated earlier adding hops in the bring to boil stage will massively reduce boil overs in kettle, but you still need to keep an eye on it
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Qs on November 17, 2014, 12:11:31 PM
Fermcap is used plenty in homebrewing in the states. Everything I've ever read about fermcap indicates there is no adverse effects on the end product. If anti-foam is the same then I'd be happy to use it.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on November 17, 2014, 01:32:42 PM
Everyone to their own, if the vessel for primary fermentation has 25% head space ie a 30 lt vessel for 25 lt of wort and for the odd flocculent yeast use a blow off tube for the first couple of days, is my preferred route to go,
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Qs on November 17, 2014, 06:19:21 PM
I'd use a blow off for fermentation too but I've got about a spare inch at the top of my boil kettle so I really could do with some help in preventing boil overs without having to stand at the kettle for the entire boil.

Fermcap seems to be used an awful lot in making starters.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Hop Bomb on November 17, 2014, 08:59:56 PM
I use fermcap in my starters. Some breweries use it to max out the capacity in their fermentors.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Beerbuddha on November 17, 2014, 09:38:00 PM
I dont see why an antifoam needs to be used in the boil once you keep eyes open at the point of boil that you know is gonna cause boil over.

I would have taught the whole point of homebrew is to do it as natural as possible and adding a chemical like anti foam  :-X
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Qs on November 17, 2014, 11:14:08 PM
I just want the tastiest beer possible. The whole idea of "natural" means nothing to me.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Beerbuddha on November 18, 2014, 12:35:07 AM
Doubt antifoam helps taste either.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Jacob on November 18, 2014, 08:22:30 AM
Quote from: B.B. on November 18, 2014, 12:35:07 AM
Doubt antifoam helps taste either.
Can guarantee that you wont taste the difference...
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: cruiscinlan on November 19, 2014, 12:03:24 PM
Just on the whole gas set-up, would there be much difference in using a a burner such as this rated as 5.6kw: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181572302634?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
or 6kw:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111159774063?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

compared to the 8kw one that most here use.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Qs on November 19, 2014, 12:54:32 PM
I've no idea but I never push my boiler more than half way, even in the wind.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: cruiscinlan on November 19, 2014, 04:53:07 PM
If you're only using it at half capacity does it not take ages?
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Qs on November 19, 2014, 04:59:49 PM
Depends. It was really quick indoors. Outside it takes maybe half an hour to reach mash temps and then again from that to boiling maybe another half hour. I could turn it up I suppose but once the flames start coming around the bottom of the kettle I figure I'm just wasting gas more than helping speed things up.
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: cruiscinlan on November 24, 2014, 09:02:03 PM
Just on gas, I've been looking at regulators and that I noticed that this has in red print that its for use in Ireland http://www.gasproducts.ie/acatalog/LPG_Kosan_Jumbo_Clip-On_Butane_Gas_Regulator.html#aHA118K

If I buy a butane regulator from the UK are they on a different standard to us or something?
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: Will_D on November 25, 2014, 10:15:50 AM
Quote from: cruiscinlan on November 24, 2014, 09:02:03 PM
Just on gas, I've been looking at regulators and that I noticed that this has in red print that its for use in Ireland http://www.gasproducts.ie/acatalog/LPG_Kosan_Jumbo_Clip-On_Butane_Gas_Regulator.html#aHA118K

If I buy a butane regulator from the UK are they on a different standard to us or something?
YES

Both Butane and Propane (Yellow and Red bottles) are different in the republic
Title: Re: Using Gas Indoors
Post by: cruiscinlan on November 25, 2014, 05:02:00 PM
Quote from: Will_D on November 25, 2014, 10:15:50 AM

YES

Both Butane and Propane (Yellow and Red bottles) are different in the republic

Cheers big ears! I owe ya one! [Sorry I never turned up with that truck of apples, my plan was over-ruled and I eneded up mulching them in Meath with a lump hammer]