National Homebrew Club Ireland

I am going racking to kegs tomorrow for first time, I dont want to drink them til xmas so I just wanna store til then...How much CO2 will i give em after purging off the oxygen in the headspace??



And when I do go for tapping up and connecting to taps at xmas how much CO2 to give the kegs, half afraid of an explosion to be honest so wanna do everyhing right....I have an oatmeal stout which  i want at around 2.2 volumes and an IPA I want at around 2.5, I have a dual reg so no probs doing both

Cheers

Its more to do with how much Co2 you like in a certain beer. I like plenty. Also depends what way you co2 up.....i like to do it fast so my procedure is .....when fermentation is complete i crash cool fermenter to 0-1C for 3 -5 days days then i rack into keg purge of oxygen as you described then lay keg on its side apply pressure 35psi and then rock keg gently for approx 2.5 minutes. Leave keg for two days and test...if it needs more i add another 30 secs at 35 psi...or less i just release pressure via vent on lid. For dispensing i use approx 5psi.

Record your setting and after 4-5 kegs you will get it how you like perfect every time after. The lower temp via crash cooling allows c02 to mix much better than if beer is warm. Im sure other have more scientific approach.

I also add gelatin to keg before i rack beer into it so this clears the beer after 2-3 days. I ditch first pint as this contains gelatin, yeast hase forming particles and after that its bright beer. Just an extra step if you like it sparkling. For stouts i believe its help with head retention if yeast is removed and served via nitro gas mix.

Thanks for that BB...I won't be in any rush so I just want to naturally carb it up as opposed to force carbing it, I just kegged an hour ago so what I did was purged out the oxygen and gave it maybe 2 mins at 35 just to give a nice seal and a good blanket of co2 on top of the beer

When I am carbing up for dispensing at Xmas do I just set the reg at whatever psi I want for my desired level and leave it on for a few days?? I haven't a clue how the reg work so when it's balanced out and taken all the co2 does the reg go back to zero or what??

Sorry bout all the questions

Hopefully someone can't help with carb times as I force carb.

I'm guessing it's set at let's say 35 psi for say 7 days. There will be a chart of times pressures and temperature is important also. Then you just disconnect the gas. The regulator just shows the pressure you set it at ...it won't move unless you increase or decrease it manually. To me going by charts is just too confusing and time consuming. Also chance of loosing all gas if you have a leak.

You put blanket co2 in keg 35 psi as you said but I'm guessing that will dissolve into solutions over next few hours and the sealing pressure you need will dissapear and cause lid to leak. I think you need to pressurize the keg today to stop this. The quicker you carb up should help stop and bacteria that need oxygen to survive.

Hope others can help on non force carbing

If no other replies come your way soon YouTube carbonation homebrew plenty step by step guide's. Visuals worth a million words

Hi Gugs,

Are you planning to add sugar to let the remaining yeast naturally carb your beer? Force carbing just means to apply CO2 via a tank, so low or high pressure both qualify.

Force carbing at the pressure that corresponds to your target dissolved CO2 volumes is the preferred method. It's easy to over shoot if you apply high pressure to your keg and shake it. Having said that, it's what I do every time as I want to drink my new beer asap!

Check out this chart, it lists the pressures and corresponding temperatures to reach your goal CO2 volumes:

http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

Edited because I write poorly. :)

Thanks Raindog...apologies bout the naturally carbing, what I meant was I didn't want to force carb it as in rocking on the floor but just to let the co2 turned on for a few day

I do want to try my kegged beer ASAP but wanna keep it for Xmas to share with mates, I prob will force carb come the time but until then I just wanted to store it, it's now in keggerator sealed up coz I sprayed with a foamy solution and no sign of leak, also I wanna dry hop my IPA for about 7 days, I could have added them today at kegging time but don't want a grassy taste come Xmas

Thanks again

I think you're a bit late for refermentation in keg Gugs, not even 4 weeks left till xmas.
Beer is defo not gonna clear till then, but should be carbed.
How much sugar did you put into keg?
Oh yeah, and as BB says make sure keg is pressurized enough to be gas tight.
Try to give it few weeks to few months (depends on beer style) before you tap the keg to help clarity if you naturally carb again.
Interesting fact is that beers naturally carbed have longer shelf-life then force carb beers.

Quote from: alealex on November 29, 2014, 09:40:29 PM
I think you're a bit late for refermentation in keg Gugs, not even 4 weeks left till xmas.
Beer is defo not gonna clear till then, but should be carbed.
How much sugar did you put into keg?
Oh yeah, and as BB says make sure keg is pressurized enough to be gas tight.
Try to give it few weeks to few months (depends on beer style) before you tap the keg to help clarity if you naturally carb again.
Interesting fact is that beers naturally carbed have longer shelf-life then force carb beers.

Cheers alealex, I didn't naturally carb the keg with sugar, fermentation is well and truly finished, I had both in primary for over 4 weeks...all I want to do before Xmas is dry hop my IPA, what I meant and I know it's wrongly put is that instead of force carbing by rocking motion I just want to put the co2 on it for a few days to carb it up as I am in no rush, all I wanted to do today was seal up the keg and purge off the oxygen which I think I have done, before Xmas I think il set my reg at around 15psi and check everyday after 4 days until desired level of co2 in beer

If you want to store the keg you should carbonate it now to the desired level and leave it under pressure. If you just add a little Co2 the beer will absorb that and there won't be enough pressure in the head space to maintain a proper seal.

Thanks Dr Jacoby...that basically is all I need to know now, il put it back on the co2 tomorrow for a few days until the desired level is reached which I will get from the charts online....will it be on to release the pressure before Xmas to dry hop my IPA and then carb up again?

One final question and that's it

How long is an adequate length for the beer line??

It all depends on the height of your tap. Length and diameter of line is a balancing act to get the right head. I've cut mine a little short and I just use the aduster on the tap to cut down the head near the end of a pore

Don't worry about beer line length too much, you've got good tap with compensator and hard tubing.
It has more to do with picnic taps and soft pvc tubing I think.
Nobody worries about leght of beer lines in commercial installations. Bars are not built to fit certain length of beer line but beer line is cut to fit the bar,  tempreture of serving plays bigger role - higher the *C more foam in the glass.
You won't have any problem once carb level is right and temp is below 7*C. The lower the better and this is one of the reasons why you get ice cold beer in the pub.

Yep, it's fine to release the pressure for dry hopping. Purging the tank of oxygen afterwards is a little more tricky. There's a widespread view that because Co2 is heavier than air it forms a blanket under the oxygen so you can just lift the valve a couple of times and the oxygen will escape. It doesn't work like that in reality. Co2 and oxygen mix very easily so when you purge from the valve all you are doing is diluting the oxygen level very slightly. A couple of quick valve lifts won't get the job done. You need to open the release valve slightly and force some Co2 in for a few minutes until the oxygen has been diluted to negligible levels. In breweries, purging tanks can take two or three hours using this technique (filling tanks with de-aerated water and pushing this out with Co2 is a faster method but not something you can do in this situation). Luckily, the headspace you need to purge is very small so it shouldn't take too long to get the job done.

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/30/23f11c03d2b82f184bfa3dc5750d8ac7.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/30/3dda21703d09a16be89a77f235eea8cb.jpg)

Finished job today, I've both kegs set at around 17psi and il check em after 4 days r so and then daily until I get what I'm looking for, can adjust to suit both styles of beer, thanks to all for advice, feeling very pleased to be all set for Xmas, special thanks to alealex for the gear

Quote from: B.B. on November 29, 2014, 04:56:17 PM

You put blanket co2 in keg 35 psi as you said but I'm guessing that will dissolve into solutions over next few hours and the sealing pressure you need will dissapear and cause lid to leak. I think you need to pressurize the keg today to stop this.

I always thought that if you purge the headspace using co2, then the blanket always stayed on top, protecting the beer and sealing the keg. So you're saying a beer needs to be fully carbed for the the keg to stay sealed and protected?

Problem, problem problem....everything is fine except when I push the ball lock connect on to one of the kegs it's pissing stout, anything  I can do to stop this, would it be that the seal is fucked and if so what can I do, the ale one is perfect

Bubbles the C02 blanket will be there but as there will be loss pressure in keg its wont stay sealed so when gunky liquid decides to pass into the keg due to nothing keeping it out it will simply drop pass the co2 blanket into the beer. Im guessing the beer will taste like crap but the blanket might be ok. Could be wrong all hypothetical  :D

Its imaginary gunk before you ask...or possibly a slug very ....small one if no gunk available slugs love beer

Have you mixed the inlet post with an outlet post when cleaning them ? Should slide on ok unless mixed up.

I didn't remove the posts for cleaning, the black connect that's on the other keg is working fine and I put it on the problem one and it's fine, seems the problem is with the connector coz the only way it stays sealed is with pressure by hand, as soon as I release it starts pissing again, the little balls on the inside ain't moving either when I move the connect up n down

I've run into that problem a couple of times. It's been caused by either switched gas and liquid posts or too large an o-ring on the post. Check your posts again, the gas post has a small ferrule at the bottom, the liquid post ferrule is larger. Looks like the gas post has a marker on it as well, that's helpful.

(http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/keg-posts-1.jpg)

If the posts are correct sometimes the o-ring on the top of the post is a bit too large and makes it tough to seat the quick disconnect. Sometimes that happens when a new gasket kit is installed. You can try lubricating it with some petroleum jelly (should be food grade), some StarSan, etc. would probably work too.

If you really think the quick disconnect is to blame you can disassemble it. Here's a pic of how they are supposed to be put together. I haven't had one fail on me but they are poorly constructed.

(http://www.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/IMG_2318.JPG)

Thanks Raindog, that's great info but I've done everything now, the thing is it's not the post because when I take the liquid disconnect off my other keg then there is no issues/leak, it seals perfects... And vice versa when I put the problem disconnect on the other keg same prob so it's def the disconnect, it just isn't clucking and staying sealed, I have disassembled it now as in diagram, removed the 4 little balls, lubed them up, put back together and still no joy...for such a simple little device I can't figure it out

Just gotta get a new one even though this is brand new, has to be the problem when the other one works perfectly fine and no leak, sick to death of cleaning up the fridge of stout, the leak is that bad when I try n fit it on

My advice would be to try your best to make a brew meet close to you if possible. So much to learn and the most important things that you dont think about are general chat at such meets.

@Gugs44, How sturdy is you Glass shelf?
I am paranoid about glass shelves shattering - I use 2 lengths of finished 4 x 1 in place of the glass shelf.

It seems to be holding fine anyway Johnrm, I was a bit sceptical myself about the weight on it but seems fine, I had planned on doing what you've done if it does fail

Toughened glass can take a nice bit of abuse/weight before breaking, can't get any worse coz the kegs will only be getting lighter

Just think, glass breaks when you're not about.
You open the door and CO2 bounces off the ground, cracking open the valve and flooding your shed with CO2, killing you, but the paramedics won't be able to dispense beer!
(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090712081146/mrmen/images/4/4f/Mr._Worry.jpg)

I'm a paramedic,  we carry o2, and I'm pretty sure I could use the non rebreather tubing to dispense. 

 :P

Actually that poses an interesting question.  Nitrous oxide (laughing gas)  is used as an analgesic.  If it was soluble it would make for an interesting beer.  Just imagine a Homebrew group meet with everyone having a fit of the giggles

Everybody would be on the floor unconscious but for the wrong reasons.

All in the name of science though

There have been threads about using the little nitrous oxide cartridge yokes ( like the little sparklets CO2 cartridge thing ) that they sell for the whipped cream dispensers as a source of 50/50 nitro mix!

Peeps see nitrous and thats it!

Haha,  oops,  would have a very interesting effect