National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Kit Brewing => Topic started by: Martin on January 25, 2015, 04:51:33 PM

Title: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: Martin on January 25, 2015, 04:51:33 PM
Hi guys,

7 days have passed after I've primed and bottled my first batch - the Coopers Australian Lager.  The fermentation stopped after 5 days and I left the brew in the fermenter for another 5 days. Everything was fine until priming, the beer tasted and smelled like flat lager but was in fact very drinkable at this stage.

However, after priming with 1,5 Coopers Carbonation Drops per 500 mil bottle, I've decided to try one beer after 7 days. I of course do know that this is far too soon but I was courious if the carbonation drops/yeast started working since there was no sign of any carbonation after a week in the bottle.  ( room temperature 18-19 degrees )

Now, I cracked one beer open today and I'm very disapointed. The beer has a very strong off flavor, very sweet and fruity, almost like a cider. I can"t say how it smells since I"m sick and my nose is kind of blocked, but I'd describe the taste as beer mixed with cheap moonshine. Really bad in fact.

Otherwise, the beer is very clear, nice lager colour, almost no head at all, ( not expected )  but at this stage it tastes far worse than Dutch Gold and seriously I did't expect myself to ever drink anything nearly as bad again :)

I have another batch which will be ready to bootle in a week and don't want to make the same mistake again.

So, definitely the problem is with priming and bottling. Any thoughts what went wrong?

Title: Re: Off Flavours after priming?
Post by: LordEoin on January 25, 2015, 05:03:50 PM
how did you sterilize your bottles, bottling wand, tap and caps?
Title: Re: Off Flavours after priming?
Post by: DEMPSEY on January 25, 2015, 05:08:40 PM
Time should help here unless you got infection. Remember the beer is still young and often  you can get an alcohol type taste from young/green beer.
Title: Re: Off Flavours after priming?
Post by: Martin on January 25, 2015, 05:10:46 PM
I didn't really since the Coopers set comes pre-sterylized, at least this what Coopers homepage says :) I guess I should have done that anyway ;)
Title: Re: Off Flavours after priming?
Post by: Martin on January 25, 2015, 05:25:48 PM
One more question though - can priming sugar produce some off flavours in the first 2-3 weeks after bottling? Or is it rather unusual?

As always, many thanks!
Title: Re: Off Flavours after priming?
Post by: molc on January 25, 2015, 05:29:46 PM
Well the priming sugar is sugar until the yeast eats it up and releases co2 as a by product. The sweet taste could simply be it is finished yet, so your having sugary beer. :)
That said my first brew was one of those kits as well. It was ok but nothing to write home about either. The kit came with brewing sugar, which gave plenty of bang but little flavour for me.
Title: Re: Off Flavours after priming?
Post by: DEMPSEY on January 25, 2015, 05:30:49 PM
Not really. You are doing a second fermentation but it is a small ferment and using only a small amount of fermentable sugar.
Title: Re: Off Flavours after priming?
Post by: LordEoin on January 25, 2015, 10:27:21 PM
sounds like it's just young or infected.
Hopefully the off flavors will fade, but if they get worse then you might have picked up an infection off the bottles, tap or bottle wand
Title: Re: Off Flavours after priming?
Post by: Martin on January 26, 2015, 08:30:30 AM
Thanks all. I'll monitor the progress and let you know if it improves after a few weeks. Meanwhile my English Bitter dry hopped with 30g Cascade will be ready to bottle soon - so far the brew tastes really good! This time I'll definitely sanitize the bottles straight out of the box.
Title: Re: Off Flavours after priming?
Post by: Bubbles on January 26, 2015, 08:58:28 AM
Quote from: Martin on January 25, 2015, 04:51:33 PM7 days have passed after I've primed and bottled my first batch - the Coopers Australian Lager.  The fermentation stopped after 5 days and I left the brew in the fermenter for another 5 days. Everything was fine until priming, the beer tasted and smelled like flat lager but was in fact very drinkable at this stage.

I think you need to be a bit more patient with it. Kits need more conditioning time, and 1 week is definitely too soon. I found that at least 1 month was required for bottle conditioning kit beers.

English Bitter dry-hopped with Cascade was also my second homebrew batch!  :) And it was a cracker, certainly a lot better than my first attempt.
Title: Re: Off Flavours after priming?
Post by: Martin on January 26, 2015, 09:10:58 AM
Thanks Bubbles, I know, I should be more patient but since this is my first brew I couldn't help myself... ;)

However, an interesting read here regarding the off flavors after bottling, seems to be quite common issue:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/bottle-conditioning-necessary-223816/
Title: Re: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: Padraich on January 26, 2015, 11:48:32 AM
Hi Martin,

I had this with a Muntons kit I made in April/May (it was just the kit & 1kg brewing sugar) - it wasn't great to start with; barely drinkable - but I tasted oen of the 3 bottles I have left over the weekend and it was brilliant. 

So when using a kit & kilo of sugar, it needs more time to develop in the bottles.  As I was told when brewing my first kit " leave it for as long as possible but 6 weeks at a minimum"

It mightn't hurt to put the bottles somewhere warmer than 18-19 for a few days to get the yeast and sugar producing CO2

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: Martin on January 26, 2015, 11:52:39 AM
Thanks Padraich! I moved the bottles to a warmer room, 22 - 23 degrees at present. Update to follow in a few weeks :)
Title: Re: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: LordEoin on January 26, 2015, 11:59:25 AM
english bitter with cascade is a great beer :)
Title: Re: Off Flavours after priming?
Post by: Bubbles on January 26, 2015, 12:02:19 PM
Quote from: Martin on January 26, 2015, 09:10:58 AM
Thanks Bubbles, I know, I should be more patient but since this is my first brew I couldn't help myself... ;)

Everyone does it, absolutely everyone!  :)

The best thing is to do as you've already done - get your second kit on and busy yourself with that. Your patience will be rewarded. I found that a few kit beers took as long as 2 months to condition into something drinkable.

That English Bitter kit, assuming you made it to Coopers recipe with 500g spraymalt, conditions in no time at all. Really good kit for people new to the hobby. It's a nice kit to do modding with too - steeping crystal/roasted malt, doing hop teas etc.


Title: Re: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: Martin on January 26, 2015, 12:18:10 PM
If I recall correctly, that was one of LordEoin's Recipes: ( Coopers ) English Bitter + 1kg Light DME + kit yeast + 30g of Cascade Hops added after a week. Brewed to 21 liters.  SG 1047  FG 1006.  It tastes so good that I already had a pint straight out the fermenter  haha :) Really love it!
Title: Re: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: darren996 on January 26, 2015, 02:24:58 PM
Hi Martin

I had the same with my first cooper kit, the blonde ale.  I used the carbonation drops and got a slight sour apple flavour.  This got less pronounced as time went on. I did the coopers lager kit next but used dextrose instead of the drops.  The lager kit didnt have off flavour. Someone on youtube suggested that the carbonation drops can give off flavours
Title: Re: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: beerfly on January 26, 2015, 03:04:09 PM
It could be the kit.  did you use the coopers brew enhancer?

sounds like Acetaldehyde (http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html). i always get that on the canadian blonde kit. time does not really help improve it either unless you are going to leave it a very long time.
Title: Re: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: Martin on January 26, 2015, 03:19:36 PM
Yeah, I used  Coopers Beer Enhancer 1 which was included in the Starter Kit. The thing is that I had a sample of the brew just before priming and bottling and the taste was great. Something must have happened during the priming & bottling process - maybe as darren996 pointed out, it`s the carbonation drops? I used 1,5 instead of 1 for priming. ( per 500ml bottle )
Title: Re: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: Martin on February 11, 2015, 07:46:03 PM
Just an update on my Australian Lager - two weeks later, all the nasty off flavors are gone and the beer tastes very good! Probably nothing to be very proud of but not worse than the commercial lagers. So, it was just a question of time and me being very impatient... By the way, I am very plesantly surprised by the taste of my second batch - the English Bitter dry hopped with Cascade. The taste is just too good to be true :)  Hope Ian at Mottly Brew has some in stock as this kit is just crying to re-brewed ASAP. Definitely recommended to beginners like myself as easy to brew and the result is amazing. Thanks for sharing the recipe!
Title: Re: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: LordEoin on February 11, 2015, 07:57:24 PM
Awesome! I'm glad both kits worked out well for you :)
Another few good coopers kits incluse their australian pale ale and IPA kits.
Both are great with some carapils or crystal and dryhopped with some nice fresh hops.
Play around! ;)
Title: Re: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: Martin on February 11, 2015, 08:44:26 PM
Thanks Eoin, I will definitely give the Australian Pale Ale a try! As for the IPA I already have Bulldog's Rajas Reward IPA waiting to be brewed next, as soon my Easter Brew chocolate stout is bottled on Sunday.
Title: Re: Off flavors after priming?
Post by: LordEoin on February 11, 2015, 08:59:50 PM
Raja's Reward is supposed to be quite nice. Not tried it though.