ive ingredients for a pilsner sitting in the cupboard and im hoping to brew it soon but before i do i want to get my water sorted. my options so far seem to be send some water off to murphys and get it tested and get advice tailored to my report. its only a moment in time though, still worth it for the advice maybe? is this something i can test myself and learn how to treat myself with the help of salifert alkalinity, magnesium and calcium tests.ive listed 3 there but which are worth getting and are these better utilized in conjunction with a murphys water report. my stouts are by far better than any light beers and pale ales tasted sour or like sulphur. i bought crs and gypsum and kind of guessed with additions and they have improved with those additions a lot
im leaning towards buying the kits and learning how to test and treat the water myself. is this better than the murphys route? i dont mind putting in the effort.
this is what i know from my water report and there seems to be little variation hco3- (240) cl- (24) na+ (14) so4-2 (42) theres nothing for calcium or magnesium.
if i buy the kits is it possible to make the correct adjustments and make a good pilsner or should i go the murphys route.
also there is a natural spring down the road with lovely tasting water its on top of the hill i live on and flows through a pine forestry the water tastes really nice and lots of people locally draw water from there because of the iron and magnesium content up on top of the hill whick thankfully i dont have to deal with, this might be worth testing too, what do you think?
Quote from: marzen scorsese on February 01, 2015, 06:01:04 PM
ive ingredients for a pilsner sitting in the cupboard and im hoping to brew it soon but before i do i want to get my water sorted. my options so far seem to be send some water off to murphys and get it tested and get advice tailored to my report. its only a moment in time though, still worth it for the advice maybe? is this something i can test myself and learn how to treat myself with the help of salifert alkalinity, magnesium and calcium tests.ive listed 3 there but which are worth getting and are these better utilized in conjunction with a murphys water report. my stouts are by far better than any light beers and pale ales tasted sour or like sulphur. i bought crs and gypsum and kind of guessed with additions and they have improved with those additions a lot
im leaning towards buying the kits and learning how to test and treat the water myself. is this better than the murphys route? i dont mind putting in the effort.
this is what i know from my water report and there seems to be little variation hco3- (240) cl- (24) na+ (14) so4-2 (42) theres nothing for calcium or magnesium.
if i buy the kits is it possible to make the correct adjustments and make a good pilsner or should i go the murphys route.
also there is a natural spring down the road with lovely tasting water its on top of the hill i live on and flows through a pine forestry the water tastes really nice and lots of people locally draw water from there because of the iron and magnesium content up on top of the hill whick thankfully i dont have to deal with, this might be worth testing too, what do you think?
I have the exact same problem with dark beers tasting great and light beers muck. I went onto the EPA website and found my water to be highly alkaline which makes sense, so adding acid malt to the mash (amounts calculated by one of the online water chemical calcs) sorted it right out.
That's excellent news auralabuse. I have some lying around and I'll throw in about 3% of the grain bill and see what happens for now. At least that way I'll get a brew on and I can get the kits in the meantime and get I but more technical
You should consider getting an RO system. Its a blank slate from which you can create any water profile
I have been richc very seriously indeed :) nearly 200 beans though. She would kill me what with getting married next year. Love one though and not just for brewing
Quote from: RichC on February 01, 2015, 09:05:55 PM
You should consider getting an RO system. Its a blank slate from which you can create any water profile
Just out of interest richC, if you use ro water without adding anything to match water profiles do you end up with any problems taste wise?
The three kits you mentioned are the ones you need.
Rather than buy a RO system (expensive to buy and run or so I am told) go to an Aquarium/Pet Shop with fish and they should sell you 25L of RO water for €5.
Use this to dilute your water to reduce the hardness.
Cheers will that's it so then I'll head into Limerick today and try maxxi pet or underwater world. One of them would have what I need
If you buy the test kits there, tell them what its for and how you use the RO water. and they may chuck in the RO water free. Bring your own 25 litre container if possible. One place charged me a tenner for the container and the water was free!
Also make sure its just pure RO. One aquarium shop asked me is it for fresh or salt aquariums as they added all the right salts!!
Cheers will I got 20 litres and bought the mg and on/alk tests the calcium is not in stock at the moment I got 182 on the alkalinity which is better than the 240 from the water report and I observed no change with the magnesium so I'll give it a blast again to see what happens
Turn out the test is out of date so I'll have to bring it back to the shop. If I use the 20 litres in a recipe that calls for 12.25 in the mash them a 7,9 to up and a 14.2 sparge will I have reducing it to acceptable levels and will I need to add any other minerals. My maths is so bad I'm struggling like a monkey with a Rubik's cube here with my calculator and notepad .
Are you using beersmith to build your recipe if so you can set up a water profile in it as your RO and it will work out what you need by way of minerals. :)
Had a quick look at my GOLD MEDAL winning pilsner from last year comp that also happened to get 3rd in best of show :) :) and I used 25 litres of RO. added to this was,
Epsom salt 0.33 mg
Calcium Chloride 0.25 mg
Baking Soda 0.25 mg
Chalk 0.25 mg.
All added to the mash :)
Cheers Dempsey was it only RO water you used for the whole brew or was there tap water also? Beersmith is on the list also, it's a long list and only gets longer ;) well done on the gold and third in best of show. I'd love to taste a decent homebrew lager or pilsner sometime. I've never tasted anything apart from shop bought stuff that's been lagered. I have my temp control sorted so hopefully I'll be sampling my own soon. Just want to make sure I've the best chance since more time and valuable space goes into a pilsner. I'm using the homebrew companys mash kit and I have 20 litres RO so I'm going to have to make it work :)
Dropped my beers off today for the competition so might have a good of my own maybe ;D
I brewed a dumper recently. I think i may have forgotten my salt additions but im not sure. If youre using RO id recommend checking out the 'brewing water chemistry primer' on HBT
Why did you dump it richC? What was bad about it? I've never had to dump one yet but that's less to do with my brewing skills and more to do with my ability to drink any old stuff :D
Its nasty piss marzen. Definitely one for the drain
Fertiliser so then :) ah well chalk her down to experience and just be extra careful next time. Its no joke so when they say there is nowhere for off flavours or mistakes to hide with very light beers.
Quote from: DEMPSEY on February 02, 2015, 06:49:45 PM
Epsom salt 0.33 mg
Calcium Chloride 0.25 mg
Baking Soda 0.25 mg
Chalk 0.25 mg.
All added to the mash :)
Jays Mr D!
You must have an expensive balance to weigh at the micro gram limit - 0.25 mg is 250 micro-grams!
Did you mean 0.33 grams?
I just tested a natural spring up the road from me and there is no sign of magnesium or alkalinity in the water from salifert tests. Water tastes great and people have been using the water for generations for drinking water if that helps, not very sciencey I will admit but would it be worth giving it a shot for a pilsner. I've brewed with this water once and it was to see what would happen I brewed a stout and it came out sour or astringent. Couldn't be drank
Quote from: marzen scorsese on February 07, 2015, 05:30:14 PM
I just tested a natural spring up the road from me and there is no sign of magnesium or alkalinity in the water from salifert tests. Water tastes great and people have been using the water for generations for drinking water if that helps, not very sciencey I will admit but would it be worth giving it a shot for a pilsner. I've brewed with this water once and it was to see what would happen I brewed a stout and it came out sour or astringent. Couldn't be drank
If the stout didn't do so well the pilsner may turn out nice as they both work best with water on opposite ends of the pH spectrum. Unless it was something else of course
My thinking exactly :) what could the something else be though ??? I reckon I'm going to have to do this experiment in the name of science (and tasty beer)
I picked up an RO system on amazon.
Instructions were rubbish, but got it together.
I used that primer on HBT which is nice and user friendly.
Ive made a Pilsner (though i dont have the propper facilites to lager yet) and an ESB.
I was hitting the mash target using the basic additions mentioned on the HBT so that was promising.
Neither are ready to drink yet so I'm just hoping they turn out nice!
Well done mate hope they turn out well and make sure report back how it is. Pics are always welcome love some beer porn ;)
RO systems are expensive and so is the maintenance (replacement membranes) and they waste a lot of water down the drain.
I'd recommend pre-boiling your water for 10 minutes and then transferring off of the precipitated chalk -submit this boiled water for a water analysis and it'll probably be much more acceptable. -Then measure the pH in your mash closely on your next light colored beer and adjust with acidulated malt or 88% lactic acid (I believe the Malt Miller in the UK or maybe Hop & Grape is where I bought mine when I was living in Dublin) to get the pH so it's at 5.2-5.4 at room temp. (after making an acid addition mix like crazy and wait 5 minutes before measuring again; the acid+buffer reactions take a while to equalize.)
You want to make sure that you have at LEAST 50 ppm and probably closer to 100 ppm of Calcium for yeast nutrition and to aid yeast flocculation but beyond that just focus on mash temp. -Then add more calcium chloride to make a beer seem maltier and gypsum to make it seem hoppier or half of each for malty and hoppy.
You just want to get that mash pH correct and then make FLAVOR-based salt additions in the boil kettle where it's easier to go into solution and where more of it will remain in the finished beer.
Adam
Thanks Adam excellent advice, very clear and precise. Next thing I must get is a pH pen so. There's no point brewing a pilsner without it I reckon and I'll get some strips too for good measure. It might be a good way of checking whether the calibration is out?
Be careful with choosing your pH pen... An accuracy of +/- 0.1 pH isn't particularly useful for brewing purposes and that's exactly where most of them sit in terms of accuracy.
You want at least +/-0.05pH.
Checkout the Hach Pocket Pro+ (not the regular Pocket Pro which is only 0.1 accuracy).
Adam
Cheers Adam I'll check that out for sure
The Hack Pocket Pro+ has the added benefit of not requiring storage solution for it's pH probe, too. (Unlike my Milwaukee mw102) -The Pocket Pro+ also has a very simple single button calibration process. (I kind of wish I would've bought the Pocket Pro+ now.)
Adam