Great talk by Dr. Rory Shiels on Saturday on a few aspects of homebrew health and safety. For anyone who missed it, Dr Shiels worked at St. James Gate initally as an apprentice electrician before moving on to work in many other areas with the brewery, including brewing. Since retiring he is now a pro-brewer turned homebrewer and a member of the NHC. Aspects covered in the talk included chemical safety, electrical safety (including DIY electrics), manual handling and clothing.
Just thought I'd start a thread as I think it's an important subject and one that's probably overlooked by a lot of us. I know I regularly carry around fermentors and mash tuns that are on the heavy side. And I should probably invest in a pair of gloves and goggles for when I'm handling hot and caustic liquids. Rory made the point that the homebrew shops don't seem to really stock much in terms of safety gear so perhaps some of them will read this and take it into consideration. There's a pair of Blichmann gloves (http://www.blichmannengineering.com/products/brewing-gloves) that look that business but if stuck I might just look on eBay. As he said on Saturday, a simple pair of goggles might be save your eyesight if something goes wrong when you're mixing up chemicals. StarSan is not something you want to get in your eyes anyway!
One thing that also jumped out at me was the safety of beginners who might show up at a club brewday might be something that needs to be kept in check just to ensure they don't do themselves any damage before they know the ropes of brewing.
Also, video of how not to aerate a carboy.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTcY_hIrhYk
Good thread!
Its definitely something that we should all be aware of.
I use the marigold gloves when using bleach and a respirator(bit overkill), but its no joke if you're in an enclosed space with chlorine in the air.
I think a big thing is probably lifting approx 30kgs of liquid. It cant be good be good for anyones back!
I would love some sort of lift system.
Wiring has to be a big safety issue for those who are not comfortable doing it.
It could be easy to incorrectly remove the thermostat on a burco boiler or even incorrectly wire up an STC.
I would say if you are unsure ask an electrician to do the work for you.
It might cost a little bit, but you can rest easy in the knowledge that it was done by a professional and if theres an issue you know who to call!
First of all shake your carboy half way through filling it or you wont have enough air in there to try and get into solution anyway. Secondly use PET. :P
I really need gloves. I tend to use an oven mit when lifting my kettle and its not ideal. A pair of those blichmann gloves or similar would be great.
Thanks for the Doctrate unfortunately I'm not there yet :-[ it's Eddie Burke who is the Dr. I had to limit the presentation due to time constraints but here's some video clips to emphasise the need to respect CO2, mixed gas and O2 cylinders they should always be kept upright and secured by a chain or strap, securing them to a wall. But above all to treat them with respect!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X7hOIsBZTPE
Here's Myth Busters so it must be true
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ejEJGNLTo84
And an investigation into an absolute horror show with an O2 bottle
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9lw_fhNAIQc
Bear in mind that mixed gas cylinders are at much greater pressure!!
What he deal then with c02 in the fridge where a lot of us have it?
The fear is if it can fall over and knock the valve off, the chances are slim enough of this happening however it can and does happen and the results are catastrophic
In use in your fridge when it's stacked among Cornies etc there's not much room for it to move or fall over.
My concern is basically that many people don't realise the danger of these cylinders and leave them lying around without due regard to the risks involved.
In commercial settings the cylinders are always stored upright outdoors and secured against a wall by a chain looped to hooks fixed to the wall.
Honorary docotorate then so! :P
Gas cylinders in the pub were always precariously stocked as well, the ones in use were chained up but more often than not the empties and new cylinders were just left lying nearby. Have dropped a couple of them and never really thought about the damage they might do.
The plastic collar on the bottle is for exactly this event and a bit like a hard hat should always be replaced if it shows any signs of damage or has been dropped. Like the hard hat Rarely happens I'd say......
Its why we stopped shipping them.
However the fire extinguisher conversions don't have a collar just an exposed valve on top of the cylinder
Care must also be taken if moving them in your car for example if the valve was leaking you could be overcome
Forget to mention I was in contact with Shane from the Home Brew Company and he is checking with his suppliers re availability of the Gloves Etc
Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on May 14, 2015, 10:26:06 AM
The fear is if it can fall over and knock the valve off, the chances are slim enough of this happening however it can and does happen and the results are catastrophic
In use in your fridge when it's stacked among Cornies etc there's not much room for it to move or fall over.
My concern is basically that many people don't realise the danger of these cylinders and leave them lying around without due regard to the risks involved.
In commercial settings the cylinders are always stored upright outdoors and secured against a wall by a chain looped to hooks fixed to the wall.
Having multiple gas bottles in my shed, I have always been paranoid about them getting knocked over especially with two little ones running around the place. Your talk at the weekend has finally prompted me to get off my four letters and address this before something untoward happens. Any specific advice about storage of 02 bottles?
Shanna
The difference is only that O2 is flammable and can cause explosions, all gas cylinders should be properly stored, away from heat sources and in a well ventilated area, Oxygen can spontaneously combust if in contact with certain oils and lubricants, have a read of this
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse8.pdf
Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on May 14, 2015, 05:42:45 PM
The difference is only that O2 is flammable and can cause explosions, all gas cylinders should be properly stored, away from heat sources and in a well ventilated area, Oxygen can spontaneously combust if in contact with certain oils and lubricants, have a read of this
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse8.pdf
co2 if in an enclosed space should be out of reach of any kids and should ideally be kept outdoors. If you had a leak substantial enough it will displace all the oxygen in the room and obviously no one can survive in there
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co2 if in an enclosed space should be out of reach of any kids and should ideally be kept outdoors. If you had a leak substantial enough it will displace all the oxygen in the room and obviously no one can survive in there
[/quote]
100% correct plus above all take care if transporting in your car, keep the tank securely supported, don't leave it rolling around and drive with a couple of windows open, for two reasons if the car is very warm inside it increases the pressure of the gas, and if the valve is leaking or the relief valve opens then at least the car is ventilated. Never leave a gas cylinder in a parked car in sunlight.
Be aware that CO2 acts like water in that it is heavier than air and will flow to the lowest point, be extra careful if fermenting or storing gas in a basement. I know it's more of an American thing to have a basement in your home but you never know. Eg Sweetmans ferment in a basement room under the Liffey. CO2 alarms are available and relatively inexpensive (~€150 ish) in the overall scheme of things, (they should be mounted at floor level and not ceiling level like their CO detector cousins)
There are lots of reported accidents of relief valves blowing on CO2 tanks while people were driving, on both Fishkeeping and homebrewing forums, just google "Driving with CO2" for lots of near misses!!
One good point that CO2 posses is that it is a respiratory stimulant in small concentrations. So if you suddenly start to breath quickly that is a sign that there is excess CO2 in the air.
That is why you can't hold your breath and pass out!
Breath in-and-out through a CO2 scrubber you defo pass out!
Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on May 15, 2015, 08:45:05 AM
co2 if in an enclosed space should be out of reach of any kids and should ideally be kept outdoors. If you had a leak substantial enough it will displace all the oxygen in the room and obviously no one can survive in there
[/quote]
100% correct plus above all take care if transporting in your car, keep the tank securely supported, don't leave it rolling around and drive with a couple of windows open, for two reasons if the car is very warm inside it increases the pressure of the gas, and if the valve is leaking or the relief valve opens then at least the car is ventilated. Never leave a gas cylinder in a parked car in sunlight.
Be aware that CO2 acts like water in that it is heavier than air and will flow to the lowest point, be extra careful if fermenting or storing gas in a basement. I know it's more of an American thing to have a basement in your home but you never know. Eg Sweetmans ferment in a basement room under the Liffey. CO2 alarms are available and relatively inexpensive (~€150 ish) in the overall scheme of things, (they should be mounted at floor level and not ceiling level like their CO detector cousins)
There are lots of reported accidents of relief valves blowing on CO2 tanks while people were driving, on both Fishkeeping and homebrewing forums, just google "Driving with CO2" for lots of near misses!!
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Will_D makes an interesting point. I would have thought it would be impossible to stay in a car full of CO2 since the compulsion to breath would be overwhelming? Mind you, other than hold my breath, I've never tried to fill my lungs with it. I wonder if the compulsion to breath is proportional to the percentage of CO2 in your lungs, or does it "peak" at a certain concentration, and then diminish?
If you walk into a room filled with CO2 you'll be overcome instantly, at lower levels as Will stated your respiratory rate increases plus your heart rate takes off also, I've had this experience several times, in the time while you are wondering what's happening you are losing vital time, you need to get into fresh air or move higher up, remember the concentration is higher the lower down you are. I had a narrow escape once on a walkway outside a building, it was enclosed between two walls and the CO2 had pooled there. This example is outside the realm of a home-brew situation but it's no harm to know the symptoms.
If the valve was leaking slightly and you were driving, the CO2 levels would gradually creep up within the car, if you notice your breathing becoming shallow and your heart rate increasing open the windows and exit the car, likewise in your brew shed etc
Back in the dark ages when I first started in the brewery it was a practical joke to tell the newbie to look into a fermenting vat to see the size of it, when he put his head through the inspection door he would pass out, and they would catch him as he fell backwards.
This prank would get people arrested nowadays but it demonstrates how quickly you can be overcome and pass out.
Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on May 15, 2015, 10:46:28 AM
Back in the dark ages when I first started in the brewery it was a practical joke to tell the newbie to look into a fermenting vat to see the size of it, when he put his head through the inspection door he would pass out, and they would catch him as he fell backwards.
This prank would get people arrested nowadays but it demonstrates how quickly you can be overcome and pass out.
That's mad. Have you ever heard of anyone falling into a fermenter? I assume it's game over if they did and not just an enjoyable bath like in Family Guy?
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/rbffcz.jpg)
Thankfully no, but unfortunately there have been a number of fatalities in the brewery in the past due to CO2, anyway enough doom and gloom it's meant to be enjoyable brewing beer just try do it safely :-)
The old Dempsey's brewery had 20 Barrel open top, flat bottom fermenter's and when they were emptied there would be co2 still lying in the bottom of the tank so if you crawled down a ladder into it you could get a bang of the co2. :o
Its like when your transferring from primary to 2nd and you stick your nose in to check the hop aroma. Even a nose full of that will make you light headed. I know its gonna do it but I just cant help myself some times.