Haze....that old question

[Oh Crap]

Brewed a Belgian which didn't go to plan and the mash was low....48c so correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that leave my tasty beer HAZY, strong but hazy

[Vermelho]

Won't it just be less fermentable. Just primary for 3 weeks and then crash cool if you can.

[Qs]

Don't think it should make it hazy. Never heard of that before.

Did you test for conversion?

[biertourist]

You mashed at only 48C??  That shouldn't make for a hazy but strong beer, I'm not even sure you'll end up with beer.  Just starch in a glass.

You're way below any of the temperature ranges for any of the amylase enzymes.  You'll be creating ferrulic acid, dropping the wort pH and converting some very large proteins into very small ones, breaking down beta glucans -but not making wort or beer downstream.

I'm sorry but this is probably an unrecoverable mistake.  I think you've got a dumper.



Adam

[biertourist]

Pull a small sample of liquid and drip some iodine on it and I bet it turn an intensely dark blue or black.  -Throw this tested bit away because iodine in these doses is poisonous.

If it turns intensely dark blue or black, you didn't make wort or beer you just made a liquidy blend of starch, hops and water.


Adam

[Oh Crap]

I was Partaking in previous brews when I brewed this. The strike was spot on but I never thought to take a temp reading during the mash. When I did it was low.. Turned out drinkable but very hazy. 2 pintd and I can feel it. In saying all that I have since adjusted my procedure to give accurate reading still it's beer and drinkable....but hazy

[Qs]

So it was 48C at the end of the mash, but the strike was correct at the start? Sure god only knows what it was at when it actually converted.

But hey you still got beer  This brewing lark is a lot easier than it seems *touch wood*.

[Oh Crap]

So it was 48C at the end of the mash, but the strike was correct at the start? Sure god only knows what it was at when it actually converted.

But hey you still got beer  This brewing lark is a lot easier than it seems *touch wood*.

It fermented down to 1.007 from God knows where
It was 1.038 before I added 800g sugar (don't ask why cause I don't know) it's got belgian flavour from the yeast and tastes reasonably good, certainly drinkable but really hazy. I have a 750ml bottle put away so will leave that for a month or so and see how it is

[biertourist]

This doesn't make any sense- how did you hit your strike temp but not your mash temp?

Please explain:

• Your Strike temp?
• Strike water volume?
• Grist mass in kilos
• Mash vessel type -insulated or uninsulated?
• Estimated grain temp
• Type of basemalt?
• Basemalt % of grist

-If you've got a link to your recipe that will answer half these questions but the temp questions are important.

Do you use the same thermometer for measuring your strike water and your mash?


If you mashed in at an appropriate temp and then just lost a lot of heat such that the mash ended at 48C then that makes complete sense, actually.

We can do some magic calculations to try to figure this out more with the information above.



Adam

[Oh Crap]

This doesn't make any sense- how did you hit your strike temp but not your mash temp?

Please explain:

• Your Strike temp?
• Strike water volume?
• Grist mass in kilos
• Mash vessel type -insulated or uninsulated?
• Estimated grain temp
• Type of basemalt?
• Basemalt % of grist

-If you've got a link to your recipe that will answer half these questions but the temp questions are important.

Do you use the same thermometer for measuring your strike water and your mash?


If you mashed in at an appropriate temp and then just lost a lot of heat such that the mash ended at 48C then that makes complete sense, actually.

We can do some magic calculations to try to figure this out more with the information above.



Adam

4.5 kg pale ale malt
.45 kg Munich light
.15kg biscuit
99g melanodin
.3 kg sugar
Strike volume...29.86L
Strike temp....72c
Insulated keg mash tun....temp 1-2c (frosty night)
Grain temp same as above
Since then the mash tun is now direct heated if necessary, and it is kept at 20c before brew day as is the grain. That brew night started late after a few pints, while having a few while brewing, so mistakes were made and notes are sketchy

[biertourist]

This doesn't make any sense- how did you hit your strike temp but not your mash temp?

Please explain:

• Your Strike temp?
• Strike water volume?
• Grist mass in kilos
• Mash vessel type -insulated or uninsulated?
• Estimated grain temp
• Type of basemalt?
• Basemalt % of grist

-If you've got a link to your recipe that will answer half these questions but the temp questions are important.

Do you use the same thermometer for measuring your strike water and your mash?


If you mashed in at an appropriate temp and then just lost a lot of heat such that the mash ended at 48C then that makes complete sense, actually.

We can do some magic calculations to try to figure this out more with the information above.



Adam

4.5 kg pale ale malt
.45 kg Munich light
.15kg biscuit
99g melanodin
.3 kg sugar
Strike volume...29.86L
Strike temp....72c
Insulated keg mash tun....temp 1-2c (frosty night)
Grain temp same as above
Since then the mash tun is now direct heated if necessary, and it is kept at 20c before brew day as is the grain. That brew night started late after a few pints, while having a few while brewing, so mistakes were made and notes are sketchy

Ok, I've never BIAB brewed but with a grist of only 5.2 kg you've added almost 30 liters of water?  -A mash thickness of 5.73 liters / KG?!?!  -Are BIAB mashes normally this thing?  I can't imagine a mash that thin, but I guess cause you're essentially no sparge brewing it kind of makes sense. ---I realize you didn't say you BIAB, but with a mash thickness this thin, I can only assume its either BIAB or some other form of no sparge brewing.


So with a grist mass of 5.21 kg, 29.86 L of strike water @ 72C, your mash temp is definitely between 67 * 68.5.  -If your mash vessel and grain was at 2C then I estimate 67.76 C if the water is heated in the mash vessel (BIAB) -if not and the mashtun is at 2C, too then the mash temp should be at almost 63C.

-A fine temperature for achieving conversion; either at the low end of the range or the high end but still within the range...

Why did you say your mash was only at 48C?  -Are you saying that you started the mash in the middle of the night and then forgot about it / fell asleep and then by the morning it was down to 48C? Or are you saying that you had some thermometer that read 48C in the mash?  -If the former then it's not a HUGE deal because you would still achieve conversion-the enzymes would be active at dough-in temps and probably stay in the proper range for a good 45 minutes at LEAST especially with your insulated mash tun-conversion will be completed then even if the temp continues to fall down to 48C; if the latter then I think that thermometer is majorly broken...

The math just doesn't work to end up with a mash @ 48C at mash-in- neither the mash-in calculation nor your finish gravity that you saw.

Adam

[Oh Crap]

Had a full answer written out and ipad crashed
Mis read my notes
Strike was 16.5L not 29.5ish
Not biab
Since then I've used Mash tun a couple of times and it holds temp very well
The fault lies squarely with uncle Arthur finest brew;-) and the resulting lack of focus
Thermometer has since been checked and was just sitting in the top of the mash (now I have one in the middle of the mash)
I also sparged way to fast, just opened the tap and let rip...
I re input everything into beersmith and reduced my efficiency to 60/65% and got a reading of 7.8% (due to the blindly stupid idea to add sugar, 800g,  to up the abv. Anyways I have put this in its own special chapter of my book called "How Not To brew" it still has belgian character just not the clove spicyness I wanted. All achieved by chance. I appreciate your efforts to help me out but this is One of those brews that, even if I wanted to, will never be replicated.... ;-)

[biertourist]

If you want intense clove spiciness out of a Belgian strain, make sure your grist has some wheat malt and target a protein / 4vg rest mash-in temp. -Shoot for a THICK mash. 

This temperature will activate an enzyme that will release the clove flavor pre-cursor, 4 vinyl guiacol from the malt and wheat malt. 

Then you need to move to your main mash temp by adding additional boiling water to bring you up to your target mash temp. --This additional water infusion is why I said to mash in on the thick to VERY thick end.   -This is how you get very clovey hefeweizens like Schneiderweiss.   The 4VG rest is your friend, for clove flavor.  Also higher fermentation temps will slightly favor clove.

-If you have a direct-fired mashtun then ignore the multiple infusions and just target 4vg/protein rest temps and then directly apply heat after 20 minutes at protein rest temps to bring you up to saccrification temps.



Adam