Metalman cans

[SlugTrap]

4a)This beer category is the hardest to define for me since it varys all the way from Wells Banana Bread beer(uck) to Theakston Old Peculier(numero uno imo),to Fran Well to the scary scarecrow Irish brewery name escapes (atm).This is the category i dare say most if not all of us do 99% of our beer shopping in,it goes from craft beer to crafty beer to the better macros like say Sam Adams bostin lager or Dog Fish Head beers.Beers in this category i would drink 99.99% of them,they should be no more than 2.00-2.50 euro per 500ml.

4b)This is part of the group just above it here but the second part would be true "craft" beers say like White Gypsy(man i had a RIS from them  before was like 9.00 a bottle but soo worth it).The likes of Wells would go in section above and the likes of MM would go here,this is the sub category i would put all Irish "craft" breweries that i have tried so far into.There are certain Irish breweries calling themselves "craft" that i do not consider to be and i reckon should go in 4a) above at best(a whole other discussion lol),beers in this category should be no more than 2.50-2.80 per 500ml(gets a bit hairy trying to price beers at this stage).

A couple of interesting things about the above:

1. You're only allowing a 30 cent swing between medium-sized - what we call in the States "regional" - breweries and small ones?
Fran Well is MolsonCoors now, Sam Adams is the biggest in the US by a hefty margin (triple the output of next nearest: Sierra Nevada,) Theakstons is 16th in the UK by market share....these guys can crush small breweries on pricing.
I've made the point with the Heineken examples but it bears repeating: all things being equal, if there's only 30 cents difference between a bigger brewery's beer and a small one's, it's not the small brewery who's trying to screw you...

2. Funny you should mention Dogfish Head, because that's the perfectly wrong example.
Sam Calagione was the one who started all of this 15 years ago when he began charging $16 for a four-pack.
People freaked out in the US, but his attitude was, "$16 gets you a fair to middling wine and you're glad to pay it, so why won't you pay the same prive for twice the volume of world class beer?" (And for the likes of Palo Santo Marrone, he's not wrong about it being world class.)

Sound logic that, to me, has suffered diminishing returns:
Thornbridge was the first brewery I remember doing it in the UK at £3 a bottle, with some justification, but now we see non-limited releases from certain Irish breweries pricing out at €6 or €7 a pint.

[Greg2013]

Remember the part where i said these were my opinions ?

As to Dogfish Head etc i consider them macro breweries not craft breweries and as such i think it is perfect example in that context,i didn't want to get into that on this post but there it is. Tbh i don't actually see what point you are trying to drive home with your last reply but i would appreciate if maybe you could explain where you are coming from.

Anyway i wasn't looking for my points above to stack up against statistics that is not what they are for,they are simply put my personal views and how i shop when buying beer and why i have a price point above which i call shenanigans.At the end of the day all i see is what price it is on the shelf,the size or output of the brewery or who it is that is hiking up the price along the chain of supply is irrelevant to me.

And if Thornbridge are £3 a bottle they can stay on the shelf too as i would consider that robbery for a macro brewery.

[mr hoppy]

There was a home-brew fermented with some Palo Santo wood at a Lee Valley meet up last year. Very nice and very unusual flavor.

[johnrm]

I had a can of Metalman today - not bad at all.
In fact at 330ml its the perfect school night commercial beer.

[SlugTrap]

As to Dogfish Head etc i consider them macro breweries not craft breweries and as such i think it is perfect example in that context,i didn't want to get into that on this post but there it is. Tbh i don't actually see what point you are trying to drive home with your last reply but i would appreciate if maybe you could explain where you are coming from.

My 1st point: Better beer is worth paying more for.

Plenty of lesser breweries have blurred the lines, yes, and there is plenty of beer now that is not worth the price tag - I basically won't even look at Irish beers in large format bottles.
Fundamentally, though, higher quality demands more cash - whether it's beer or anything else.

Anyway i wasn't looking for my points above to stack up against statistics that is not what they are for,they are simply put my personal views and how i shop when buying beer and why i have a price point above which i call shenanigans.At the end of the day all i see is what price it is on the shelf,the size or output of the brewery or who it is that is hiking up the price along the chain of supply is irrelevant to me.

My 2nd point: Craft breweries are not to blame for how expensive beer is in Ireland.

You said "There is a point where it is taking the mickey and we are being robbed blind" - OK, but who's doing the robbing?
Corporate brewery markups and government taxes set the market long before there was any craft beer in Ireland.

And if Thornbridge are £3 a bottle they can stay on the shelf too as i would consider that robbery for a macro brewery.

For Otto, I agree; for Wild Raven, I think it's fair.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, all this is nothing personal (I don't even know you!) and spend your money however you like, of course.

I've just gotten really tired of hearing (warning:Dublin prices) some people say, "I'm not paying €5.50 for a pint of some craft beer!" and then going back to their €5 pint of Carlsberg.

[Greg2013]

No worries boss 

I never said craft breweries were to blame for how expensive beer is in Ireland. As to who is doing the robbing as in my last reply i really don't care who it is,the price on the shelf is all i care about at the end of the day.

"My 1st point: Better beer is worth paying more for." So where do you draw the line ? I agree with this statement but to me i have a limit above which i will not go because i believe that as good as a beer may be there is a point at which it is simply price gouging.

"My 2nd point: Craft breweries are not to blame for how expensive beer is in Ireland." As above i never said they were,to clarify even further i don't believe they are totally to blame but i do believe some of them are at least partly to blame by playing into punters desires and taking them for what they can while they can.

"I've just gotten really tired of hearing (warning:Dublin prices) some people say, "I'm not paying €5.50 for a pint of some craft beer!" and then going back to their €5 pint of Carlsberg." So funny i actually agree 100% with this sentiment,or the one where they say "that craft beer sure God only knows what they put into that" but yet they will not question what goes into a pint of macro sigh.

I love "craft" beer or any good decent beer,i think what has happened in my case is that the few gougers out there producing mediocre beer and selling at a premium have poisoned my attitude across the board to the point now where i treat them all with a healthy dose of disdain,maybe the 3.00 euro self imposed limit is unrealistic but it is driven as much by financial reasons as anything else,should things improve i have no doubt that limit will stretch it's legs somewhat.

[Pheeel]

Dogfish Head does produce in macro quantities but I'd still refer to them as a craft brewer (craft meaning quality, not size). I'm don't know many macros that would go to the lengths Sam does to produce some of his brews

If you ever get a chance to watch the show  "Brew Masters" I'd strongly suggest it. It's a fascinating show. He pulls wild yeast from the fig trees close to the pyramids in Egypt to brew one of his ancient ales. In another they dump almost a million dollars of beer as it doesn't taste "quite right". Can't see InBev doing that

[SlugTrap]

Dogfish Head does produce in macro quantities but I'd still refer to them as a craft brewer (craft meaning quality, not size).

In 2013 they produced roughly 300,000 hl, about the same as Shepherd Neame, who are the largest independent UK brewery.
Last year, after an expansion, DFH's output should've been closer to 500,000 hl.

[mr hoppy]

Craft beer semantics. Head hurts.

[Greg2013]

Dogfish Head does produce in macro quantities but I'd still refer to them as a craft brewer (craft meaning quality, not size). I'm don't know many macros that would go to the lengths Sam does to produce some of his brews

If you ever get a chance to watch the show  "Brew Masters" I'd strongly suggest it. It's a fascinating show. He pulls wild yeast from the fig trees close to the pyramids in Egypt to brew one of his ancient ales. In another they dump almost a million dollars of beer as it doesn't taste "quite right". Can't see InBev doing that

I have actually seen that episode and while i am not disputing the quality of DFH beers i strongly dispute that they are anything other than a macro brewery at this point same as Brewdog,same as Sam Adams,same as Fran Well(Molson Coors now).

[SlugTrap]

In 2013 they produced roughly 300,000 hl, about the same as Shepherd Neame, who are the largest independent UK brewery.

If by independent you mean not owned by a larger/parent company, is Fullers not bigger? (Just curious)

No and no.
Their output last year was about 330k hl, but some of that was cider and soft drinks, so they end up roughly the same as SN if not a bit behind.
Fullers also trade on the LSE, so it's open to debate whether they are truly "independent."

[Greg2013]

Tonight 28/02/2015 this is the kind of gouging by vendors that has me so restrictive on how much i am willing to pay for a beer off the shelves.



http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=9056.msg112642#msg112642

[mr hoppy]

Was in Dunnes in Bishopstown today. Fair few "craft" options below, or near 3 euros.