A Tale of 3 Stout Yeasts

[Leann ull]

Ok hadn't done a standard stout for over 12 months and wanted to mess around with some different yeasts for the older fellas that show up in my gaff at christmas and also wanted to late mash dark malt as I wanted to create a "sessionable stout" without the dark malt burps
Originally I was going to steep overnight but bottled it in favour of a late 10 Min addition

Yeasts were;
1.London Ale WLP013
2.Bedford Ale WLP006
3.Irish Ale Yeast WLP 004 (The old Reliable and my go to yeast)

Roast went in 10 mins from end of mashing as I was trying to cut back on harshness experienced in stouts I did last year.

Split 54L of recipe below across 3 carboys evenly mixed with top middle and bottom of boil kettle in each.
3 healthy starters pitched and temp controlled at 18.5 C rising to 19 after 4 days.

All three fermented well but produced very differing results to my palette

They were still a bit green but I entered all 3 in Lamberts comp 2 in stouts  , and 1 in porter not because I chase medals but wanted to be see if others felt the same on what I had brewed


Take an ordinary Dry stout recipe

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 69.36 l
Post Boil Volume: 61.36 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 54.00 l   
Bottling Volume: 51.00 l
Actual OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 87.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 35.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Mash Efficiency: 83 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
54.00 l               Dublin, Ireland                          Water         1        -             
20.00 g               Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent   2        -             
8.00 kg               Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC)         Grain         3        62.7 %       
3.00 kg               Barley, Flaked (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC Grain         4        23.5 %       
1.76 kg               Roasted Barley (Simpsons) (1083.5 EBC)   Grain         5        13.8 %       
159.46 g              East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - Boil Hop           6        35.4 IBUs     
1.08 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)        Fining        7        -             
2.6 pkg               Irish Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP004)     Yeast         8        -             


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 12.76 kg
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time               
Saccharification  Add 33.47 l of water at 77.5 C          68.9 C        40 min                 
Mash Out          Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min              75.6 C        10 min                 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 48.87 l water at 75.6 C
Notes:
------
Mashed Dark 10 mins from end


And here are the results

The London FG 1015 I entered into porter category as I felt it was thin Its scored 30
Judges said
a)Good beer well brewed, lack complexity to stand out against best examples.
b)A little harsh acidic roasty in finish, no special malts coming through to get complexity
Overly roasty for style, while lacking chocolate toffee notes, more stout like rather than porter (That was from a non BJCP Judge )

The Bedford FG 1017 I really liked it had smoothness I was chasing but only scored 26
a)Phenolic Notes on the aroma and mouthfeel, check water for chlorine (I'm on a well   Fair point was made about fully rinsing chlorine based cleaning agents but my kegs get a 3 stage rinse the last is with SS)
b) Very basic not much jumping out and not true to style

The Irish Ale FG 1017 Scored 35
a) Bitterness is a bit Light, makes it feel more light than it is (Very Clever judging) Possibly try mashing a bit lower.
b) Beautiful Aroma but lets itself down in flavour, needs more body but a good beer


Have to disagree with comments on the Bedford its much subtler and lacks earthy bite of a true stout of course but would be my new friend over English Ale

Conclusion, all three beers were still green and a month later on Nitro each one is getting better hence importance of conditioning and they will be just right when I get the old fellas around at christmas looking for stouts

Lessons learnt
I did create sessionable stouts even if the London ale is disappointing
My first time messing around with late addition roast went ok, it'll be black IPA next
Variations on the old reliables if you want to win this cat in a national comp
So same wort just different yeasts can have a massive bearing on your beer 

[delzep]

Nice info. What were the FG for each yeast? What was the Dry Irish yeast? How come you have the scores from the stout competition?

And why have the smilies gone tits up for me the past couple of days....can't see them!

[Kevin O'Roundwood]

Fascinating stuff and amazing to see the difference the yeast makes. I'll be down to ya with 3 buckets there in a minute! 

(Smiley's have all gone to bed on me too)

[Leann ull]

@Delzep, I was there on the day judging.
I thought they had all been sent out by now, PM Cara
I just logged a smiley incident with the Mods, probably just an upgrade required

[hassettbrew]

I did a simillar late roast grain addition on a porter my self and Arthuras brewed recently cept I steeped my roast and crystal grains  in 75 c  water fro ten minutes as per Gordon Strongs method. Seemed to work out fine so far as its still in the secondary. Will let you know in a few weeks.

[Leann ull]

Cheers, the method I was contemplating was double the recipe amount steeped in cold water for 12 hours and then added to the boil.

[Parky]

Lovely information CH! and great to get the feedback on all three beers from other judges. Surprised about the feedback re: the Bedford yeast, as I would have thought this was one to bring out the best from the malt. But as you say, I'm sure it'll be even better as it conditions.

[molc]

Just kegged a brown ale with Bedford yeast at the weekend, with 6% brown malt and it had a strange, almost rye like up front flavour that I didn't expect at all. I'd almost call it a phenolic flavour with a touch of tart citris/lemon going on.

No idea if this is related of course, but it's interesting your fairly basic recipe got something funky up front as well.

[auralabuse]

That's a brilliant post ch, very interesting reading. Forgive my beginner question, do you guys steeping grains for flavour additions for extract brewing or are you steeping over night, adding this as flavoured water to the mash?. I'm just not too sure what the steeping achieves in the all grain set up

[Leann ull]

steeping for colour and softer flavour and added to boil late on.
The late addition in the mash achieved a halfway house.

[auralabuse]

steeping for colour and softer flavour and added to boil late on.
The late addition in the mash achieved a halfway house.

So does the steeping affect the abv at all, are you diluting the wort or actually adding fermentable sugars to it

[Leann ull]

Highly roasted malts have little or no diastatic power and produce little or no fermentable sugars and are there for colour, flavour and or aroma.

[Garry]

And why have the smilies gone tits up for me the past couple of days....can't see them!

Tits are back down again

[delzep]

Tits 

[Leann ull]

Ere less tits in this thread please